BleedGopher
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just not a fan of the direction the WCHA is going in and the teams now making up the league. bemidji state? alaska-anchorage? michigan tech? nebraska-omaha? the league and the old rivalries are just getting too watered down for my taste.
would much rather play in the same conference as wisconsin, michigan, michigan state, ohio state, notre dame and see illinois and penn state start up D1 hockey at their schools since they already have a tradition of youth hockey and have had NHL franchises for a long time.
being in the business of keeping some of these second or third-tier hockey programs afloat should not be the business of schools like minnesota, wisconsin, michigan, michigan state.
Sweet. So you'd rather there was just like 30 teams and 3 different power conferences? Yeah, that'd be great. Let's take away opportunities for kids, not create them.
i would be okay with that. i believe there would be far better college hockey to watch if there were fewer teams because those remaining would be the ones with the tradition and who are/always have been on solid financial and foundational footing. i don't have any emotional connection to the nebraska-omaha's, bemidji states, alaska-anchorage, alaska-fairbanks, michigan techs, northern michigans, ferris states, western michigans, bowling greens of the world, so if those teams went away at some point i wouldn't shed a tear over it.
That seems extremely selfish. A team can't build tradition if they can't play games, pull upsets, and win championships. How did college hockey even start expanding since no one had tradition built? I don't think YOUR emotional connection has anything to do with the other fans of these programs looking to build tradition.
Speaking of why UNO and not UNL, I am sure Title IX has as much to do with it as anything. UNL doesn't know what hockey is, no facility. UNO had facility options.I think small programs need to be together in their own conferences. Is there any other sport where this mixing happens? Any? Women's pole vaulting? Nope, that's Big10 still.
No Nebraska Huskers, but Nebraska-Omaha? Makes no sense.
No Colorado Buffs, but Colorado College? Makes no sense.
No Penn State, but Alabama-Huntsville? Pure insanity with crazy on top.
This is partly a result of not having enough big programs, and I think the current setup encourages small programs and discourages big ones. Bemidji State's only chance to play with the big boys is in hockey, not basketball and not even even track&field. Meanwhile, what incentive does Penn State have to start hockey if it will be stuck in a conference full of schools that its students don't care much about?
I think a Big10 (and later Big East) conference would be the best thing ever for college hockey.
Speaking of why UNO and not UNL, I am sure Title IX has as much to do with it as anything. UNL doesn't know what hockey is, no facility. UNO had facility options.
UN-Omaha has the same Title IX obligations as the Huskers, only a much smaller budget. If UNO is willing to suck it up while UNL isn't, there MUST be a bigger reason than money, right?
Culture? I find it hard to believe that Omaha is so much more hockey crazy than Lincoln, 30 mins away, just like U. of Denver has a team and Colorado doesn't (30 mins away). Do Colorado, Pitt, Northwestern, Marquette, Rutgers, Villanova etc. not know what hockey is? Those are all much bigger hockey towns than Omaha, WITH facilities available, and they still don't have teams. Why?
Sacred Heart plays D-1 with a 1,000 seat arena, American International has a 1,200 seat arena, those are just the first 2 I clicked on. The Huskers have the cash to build a 1,000 seat hockey arena tomorrow if they wanted to......so it's got to be something else.
Again, my hunch is that small schools want to play hockey because it's their ONLY chance to play in a major conference with the big boys and raise their profile, so they're willing to pay whatever the costs and roll the dice. What's the Cornhuskers incentive to join the WHCA, so they can play St. Cloud and Alaska?
Now if there was a BigXII hockey conference in place I bet they'd seriously consider starting a program (UN-Lincoln, Colorado, Iowa State, Mizzou (St. Louis is a big hockey town), maybe Kansas or Kansas State)
North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Denver, Colorado College, Michigan and Michigan St. should make their own elite conference.
(Also I know it wouldn't work to just kick out Alaska Anchorage but I think the WCHA should replace them with a greater asset in MSUM. Alaska Anchorage is too far away no one attends the games there is no rivalry. If MSUM was to replace them, more people would be able to watch games hockey games. Location Location Location, I guarantee you that every MSUM home game against UND and U of M game would sell out. Also Bemiji St., St. Cloud, Duluth are all with in reasonable driving distance to attract fans. Also the UP center is newer built in 2008 and much better arena than what AA has. Although UP only holds 5,000 to AA 6,000. Of course this is nothing but a pipe dream because I don't think MSUM will ever get D1 hockey. Just a thought)
UN-Omaha has the same Title IX obligations as the Huskers, only a much smaller budget. If UNO is willing to suck it up while UNL isn't, there MUST be a bigger reason than money, right?
Culture? I find it hard to believe that Omaha is so much more hockey crazy than Lincoln, 30 mins away, just like U. of Denver has a team and Colorado doesn't (30 mins away). Do Colorado, Pitt, Northwestern, Marquette, Rutgers, Villanova etc. not know what hockey is? Those are all much bigger hockey towns than Omaha, WITH facilities available, and they still don't have teams. Why?
Sacred Heart plays D-1 with a 1,000 seat arena, American International has a 1,200 seat arena, those are just the first 2 I clicked on. The Huskers have the cash to build a 1,000 seat hockey arena tomorrow if they wanted to......so it's got to be something else.
Again, my hunch is that small schools want to play hockey because it's their ONLY chance to play in a major conference with the big boys and raise their profile, so they're willing to pay whatever the costs and roll the dice. What's the Cornhuskers incentive to join the WHCA, so they can play St. Cloud and Alaska?
Now if there was a BigXII hockey conference in place I bet they'd seriously consider starting a program (UN-Lincoln, Colorado, Iowa State, Mizzou (St. Louis is a big hockey town), maybe Kansas or Kansas State)
UN-Omaha has the same Title IX obligations as the Huskers, only a much smaller budget. If UNO is willing to suck it up while UNL isn't, there MUST be a bigger reason than money, right?
Culture? I find it hard to believe that Omaha is so much more hockey crazy than Lincoln, 30 mins away, just like U. of Denver has a team and Colorado doesn't (30 mins away). Do Colorado, Pitt, Northwestern, Marquette, Rutgers, Villanova etc. not know what hockey is? Those are all much bigger hockey towns than Omaha, WITH facilities available, and they still don't have teams. Why?
Sacred Heart plays D-1 with a 1,000 seat arena, American International has a 1,200 seat arena, those are just the first 2 I clicked on. The Huskers have the cash to build a 1,000 seat hockey arena tomorrow if they wanted to......so it's got to be something else.
Again, my hunch is that small schools want to play hockey because it's their ONLY chance to play in a major conference with the big boys and raise their profile, so they're willing to pay whatever the costs and roll the dice. What's the Cornhuskers incentive to join the WHCA, so they can play St. Cloud and Alaska?
Now if there was a BigXII hockey conference in place I bet they'd seriously consider starting a program (UN-Lincoln, Colorado, Iowa State, Mizzou (St. Louis is a big hockey town), maybe Kansas or Kansas State)
The incentive would be if a school could make money by adding hockey, and most must not think they can. I would imagine hockey would be by far the most expensive non-revenue sport... so if there are no crowds, then there is no way you'll see a program.
This article does a good job of talking up the WCHA and why it is the place to be: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/132339616
Lincoln Gopher:
I believe you that Omaha likes its hockey, but isn't Omaha also made up of almost 100% Husker supporters and/or alumni? If hockey fans in Omaha had the option of driving 30 minutes and supporting their beloved Huskers play hockey, or staying in Omaha and watching UNO, why not go watch the team you grew up rooting for in every other sport?
I agree with you that a BigXII conference is a longshot, I was just dreaming. And I see why UNL and Colorado don't invest in basketball, because it's tough for them to win recruiting battles against Kansas, Mizzou, Texas and OU. But the difference between basketball and hockey is that both UNL and Colorado could field some competitive hockey teams, very quickly, simply on the recruiting power of name recognition alone. Play for the Huskers or Buffs, or play for Mankato? I think I've made my decision.
The Husker fans from Omaha don't drive 45 miles to Lincoln for anything but football. They don't support Husker basketball or baseball. They support Creighton in basketball. It is amazing to me how many people in Omaha support Husker football and Creighton basketball. For something like this to happen at Nebraska, the athletic department and to have some interest and there is none. Its not that UNL and Colorado don't invest in basketball, it's that there is no fan interest, so they can't even make money on the sport. I do understand the point you are making about hockey, I just think that Nebraska is a terrible example of a school that should have hockey.
Thanks for the link.
You say "no crowds, no way you'll see a program" but then please explain how "American International" manages to field a D1 team that averaged 207 fans per game last year (yes, two hundred seven).
I think the most telling quote from that article is from Maturi: "And the great thing about college hockey is that where else in college sports can you have a Minnesota with a $74 million budget competing against a Colorado College with 2,000 students and a ($6 million) budget, and they can beat you?"
American International fields a D1 team because the rules allow them to...and it's probably their only D1 sport. Most college hockey teams are their school's only D1 sport. I believe there are only 13 schools that play D1 football, basketball, and hockey (Minnesota, Wisky, Mich, Mich St, tOSU, Notre Dame, BC, Uconn, Army, BGSU, Miami, Air Force, Western Michigan)... If you look at that list, most of those schools are mediocre in all of their sports at best.
For a big school, the incentive to add D1 hockey would only be to make money. Schools don't add non-revenue sports. The only school that I think may be able to add hockey and be really successful would be Penn State. But, as my link shows, their is nobody looking to break up the WCHA because it is the ultimate power and revenue conference.
Lincoln Gopher:
I believe you that Omaha likes its hockey, but isn't Omaha also made up of almost 100% Husker supporters and/or alumni? If hockey fans in Omaha had the option of driving 30 minutes and supporting their beloved Huskers play hockey, or staying in Omaha and watching UNO, why not go watch the team you grew up rooting for in every other sport?
I agree with you that a BigXII conference is a longshot, I was just dreaming. And I see why UNL and Colorado don't invest in basketball, because it's tough for them to win recruiting battles against Kansas, Mizzou, Texas and OU. But the difference between basketball and hockey is that both UNL and Colorado could field some competitive hockey teams, very quickly, simply on the recruiting power of name recognition alone. Play for the Huskers or Buffs, or play for Mankato? I think I've made my decision.
The Husker fans from Omaha don't drive 45 miles to Lincoln for anything but football. They don't support Husker basketball or baseball. They support Creighton in basketball. It is amazing to me how many people in Omaha support Husker football and Creighton basketball. For something like this to happen at Nebraska, the athletic department and to have some interest and there is none. Its not that UNL and Colorado don't invest in basketball, it's that there is no fan interest, so they can't even make money on the sport. I do understand the point you are making about hockey, I just think that Nebraska is a terrible example of a school that should have hockey.
I agree completely with you Lincoln Gopher and then throw in the fact that Omaha and Lincoln have a heated competitition with one another for everything, whether it be the university, high school state championships, etc. I know that John Breslow had talked about throwing in several million towards an ice arena attached to the proposed new basketball arena in the Haymarket district of Lincoln, but we will see if they can actually get the funding for the new basketball facility first. I think atleast at this time it makes sense for UNO to be the only hockey team in Nebraska as they already have one of the nicest arenas around in the new Qwest Center and would be self destructive for the University of Nebraska system to put a team in Lincoln to compete for the fans of the state against one of their own schools. You have to throw UNO a bone on something that they don't have to compete again UNL on to give them a chance.
American International fields a D1 team because the rules allow them to...and it's probably their only D1 sport.
Most college hockey teams are their school's only D1 sport.
I believe there are only 13 schools that play D1 football, basketball, and hockey Minnesota, Wisky, Mich, Mich St, tOSU, Notre Dame, BC, Uconn, Army, BGSU, Miami, Air Force, Western Michigan... If you look at that list, most of those schools are mediocre in all of their sports at best.
Illinois and Penn State have established club teams, but there's a big difference between fielding a competitive club team and generating revenue as a D1 sport.
The fact is that college hockey is popular in Minnesota, Michigan, and Massachusetts and has very little interest in the rest of the country.
There are also Title IX issues to consider, which makes adding new sports a little more complicated.
The AD's answer explains everything... It's all about MONEY.
I think a Big10 (and later Big East) conference would be the best thing ever for college hockey.
A Big East conference would be fantastic......your members would be Notre Dame and????????
I can't wait for the Big XII conference would get fired up as well.
And hopefully the SEC will follow suit. I can't wait to watch their brand of hockey with all the SEC speed & athletes.
will say this only once: a Big Ten hockey conference would be one of the WORST things that could happen to college hockey.