QB situation going forward

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I've just come to accept that some gopher fans are in love with "the next big thing" and no amount of reason will change their mind. I'm surprised no one is pitching for Nelson to start this weekend against Wisconsin. Good teams have stud recruits sit on the bench for 3-4 years all the time especially when there are 2 more than adequate players in front of him. Also, I can't believe some are already writing off a true freshman, seriously?
 

Thanks!

littlebigboy said:
Anybody can predict, situations will happen that dictate what actually happens, but it keeps small minds occupied!
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Now I finally understand finally why people continue to make the same comments after they have been made ad nausea. It is sort of like Sesame Street for Gopher football fans.
 

Message boards are great for sweeping statements and knee-jerk reactions. A few weeks ago a lot of people were calling for Shortell to start now. Today Nelson is the second coming of Peyton Manning who will show up on campus as a seasoned veteran.

As I see it next season can play out a few ways and it will all be based on what happens in spring ball and fall camp. There will be a legit QB competition between Shortell and Gray in the off-season. If Shortell looks like he is ready to be a starting QB in the Big Ten next season he may very well get the nod and Gray will be shifted to WR to enhance a very unproven group that right now lacks a clear go-to-guy.

More likely Gray will remain at QB because he still is the best option we have, and the coaches will figure out ways to get Shortell on the field to gain experience for the future. Nelson doesn't factor into my view for next year because he is going to need some time to adjust and mature. It was unfortunate that Shortell was forced to play this year, which basically tells us all we need to know about what the staff thinks of Alipate and Parrish.

Next season will be Kill's first full one under EK and he will also be under a new AD. No one will expect a championship but there will need to be improvement because he was not the choice of either of his bosses. It is doubtful they would make a change after 2 seasons but it will be on Kill to show proof he is taking things in the right direction.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Next season will be Kill's first full one under EK and he will also be under a new AD. No one will expect a championship but there will need to be improvement because he was not the choice of either of his bosses. It is doubtful they would make a change after 2 seasons but it will be on Kill to show proof he is taking things in the right direction.
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I think a 7 year deal pretty much makes him EK's guy. Kill will be the coach here for a minimum of his 7 year contract.
 

There is absolutely no chance that Gray moves back to WR full-time. Period. Zero chance. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nein. Nyet. I don't care if Gunner Kiel commits to the Gophers. It's not going to happen. At all. Ever. The sooner people come to grips with this, the better off we all will be. His NFL prospects are utterly irrelevant. There are literally thousands of examples of very successful NFL players who saw few/zero snaps in college at their current position. Antwaan Randle-El, Patrick Crayton, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones, Brad Smith, Arnaz Battle, Josh Cribbs, Michael Robinson, Ron Curry, Drew Bennett, Scott Frost, etc., were all college QBs who enjoyed multi-year careers at different positions in the NFL.

Next, Nelson will redshirt in 2012 and the next legitimate QB competition will begin in spring ball 2013, when Nelson has a full year under his belt, and Shortell has two seasons of playing behind Gray. I think it will be a spirited competition, but I see Nelson winning out not necessarily because he is the better QB, but because he is the perfect fit for this offense.
 


dpodoll68 said:
There is absolutely no chance that Gray moves back to WR full-time. Period. Zero chance. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nein. Nyet. I don't care if Gunner Kiel commits to the Gophers. It's not going to happen. At all. Ever. The sooner people come to grips with this, the better off we all will be. His NFL prospects are utterly irrelevant. There are literally thousands of examples of very successful NFL players who saw few/zero snaps in college at their current position. Antwaan Randle-El, Patrick Crayton, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones, Brad Smith, Arnaz Battle, Josh Cribbs, Michael Robinson, Ron Curry, Drew Bennett, Scott Frost, etc., were all college QBs who enjoyed multi-year careers at different positions in the NFL.

Next, Nelson will redshirt in 2012 and the next legitimate QB competition will begin in spring ball 2013, when Nelson has a full year under his belt, and Shortell has two seasons of playing behind Gray. I think it will be a spirited competition, but I see Nelson winning out not necessarily because he is the better QB, but because he is the perfect fit for this offense.
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Wanna bet?
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I think a 7 year deal pretty much makes him EK's guy. Kill will be the coach here for a minimum of his 7 year contract.
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If we have learned anything over the years it is that college coaching contracts really mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. If an administration wants to make a change they will and if a coach wants to leave he will. 7 years looks pretty on paper but stating that Kill will for sure see the end of it is a bit of a reach given the way the coaching landscape is these days.
 

cjcarter8 said:
I've just come to accept that some gopher fans are in love with "the next big thing" and no amount of reason will change their mind. I'm surprised no one is pitching for Nelson to start this weekend against Wisconsin. Good teams have stud recruits sit on the bench for 3-4 years all the time especially when there are 2 more than adequate players in front of him. Also, I can't believe some are already writing off a true freshman, seriously?
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I'm already bored with Nelson, I prefer whoever our 2013 QB recruit is going to be.
 

Yes dpodoll this is the most logical case......

dpodoll68 said:
There is absolutely no chance that Gray moves back to WR full-time. Period. Zero chance. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nein. Nyet. I don't care if Gunner Kiel commits to the Gophers. It's not going to happen. At all. Ever. The sooner people come to grips with this, the better off we all will be. His NFL prospects are utterly irrelevant. There are literally thousands of examples of very successful NFL players who saw few/zero snaps in college at their current position. Antwaan Randle-El, Patrick Crayton, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones, Brad Smith, Arnaz Battle, Josh Cribbs, Michael Robinson, Ron Curry, Drew Bennett, Scott Frost, etc., were all college QBs who enjoyed multi-year careers at different positions in the NFL.

Next, Nelson will redshirt in 2012 and the next legitimate QB competition will begin in spring ball 2013, when Nelson has a full year under his belt, and Shortell has two seasons of playing behind Gray. I think it will be a spirited competition, but I see Nelson winning out not necessarily because he is the better QB, but because he is the perfect fit for this offense.
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......but logic doesn't play well here. The good news is that coach Kill will be making the decisions and not this board.
 



zambam said:
Sounds solid to me. After how impressed everyone was with Shortell earlier in the year I don't get why so many are discounting him now.
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Shortell was not impressive early this year. He was popular due to knee jerk reactions based on a few plays.

He definitely will get and deserve a shot at being the qb, but he has shown me nothing that leads me to believe he will start at qb unless it is due to injury.
In 4 quarters against starting defenses that game planned for him (1st 3 against Michigan and 1st against purdue) the team managed like 3 first downs. He is not entitled to anything. But he will get a shot.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm already bored with Nelson, I prefer whoever our 2013 QB recruit is going to be.
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If kill is a smart recruiter he will continue to bring in good qbs. Which means speculating beyond the fact that gray is the qb for the next 15 games barring injury is kinda pointless and just for fun. It is entirely possible that our next starting qb is a freshman at a junior college or a junior in high school right now.
 

MNGopher3409 said:
Wanna bet?
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Wanna bet what?

It's beyond obvious that you're either a close friend/family member of Nelson (possibly even Philip himself), so you're not exactly coming from a non-partisan stance. Further, you honestly think that Nelson ran a legitimate 4.4 40, so you're not exactly coming from a base of great knowledge either.
 

dpodoll68 said:
There is absolutely no chance that Gray moves back to WR full-time. Period. Zero chance. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nein. Nyet. I don't care if Gunner Kiel commits to the Gophers. It's not going to happen. At all. Ever. The sooner people come to grips with this, the better off we all will be. His NFL prospects are utterly irrelevant. There are literally thousands of examples of very successful NFL players who saw few/zero snaps in college at their current position. Antwaan Randle-El, Patrick Crayton, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones, Brad Smith, Arnaz Battle, Josh Cribbs, Michael Robinson, Ron Curry, Drew Bennett, Scott Frost, etc., were all college QBs who enjoyed multi-year careers at different positions in the NFL.

Next, Nelson will redshirt in 2012 and the next legitimate QB competition will begin in spring ball 2013, when Nelson has a full year under his belt, and Shortell has two seasons of playing behind Gray. I think it will be a spirited competition, but I see Nelson winning out not necessarily because he is the better QB, but because he is the perfect fit for this offense.
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I agree.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Coach Kill recruited Shortell or Alipate while at NIU. He prefers a mobile passer ala Harnish. All other things being equal, Nelson seems to fit that mold.
 



Well we won't have to wait all that long to see this play out, because Nelson will be here in January. Leidner will also, so it will be interesting where he gets reps at. Barring transfers or position changes, we could have 7 QB's for spring ball.
 

Can't we all just enjoy watching MarQueis progress and play the next 15 games? There is no chance barring injury that anyone else will be our starting QB next year. Period. If you don't understand this, you need to go to the remedial board because you don't understand football. The man just threw for nearly 300 yards and 3 TD's on the road against the number 2 pass defense in the country.

For 2013, we get to watch the competition between Shortell (Jr.) and Nelson (R Freshman). Foreman will also be in the mix and should get some snaps. We should have some nice depth at QB in the future no matter how it plays out.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
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I agree.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Coach Kill recruited Shortell or Alipate while at NIU. He prefers a mobile passer ala Harnish. All other things being equal, Nelson seems to fit that mold.
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While I don't disagree with the general sentiment, I'm pretty sure that Kill did try and recruit Shortell to NIU. Bottom line in this debate, it's a nice problem to have as I believe the Gophs QB position is set up the best it has been in a long time and should be for the next 4-5 years.
 

dpodoll68 said:
There are literally thousands of examples of very successful NFL players who saw few/zero snaps in college at their current position. Antwaan Randle-El, Patrick Crayton, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones
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As much as I hoped and prayed for it to happen, Matt Jones ≠ Successful NFL player
 

KoolAid said:
As much as I hoped and prayed for it to happen, Matt Jones ≠ Successful NFL player
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Depends on how you define success. He wasn't very good on the field, but he put a lot of millions into his bank account. And despite everything else, that's the reason anyone wants to play professional sports.
 

Rosemountian said:
If kill is a smart recruiter he will continue to bring in good qbs. Which means speculating beyond the fact that gray is the qb for the next 15 games barring injury is kinda pointless and just for fun. It is entirely possible that our next starting qb is a freshman at a junior college or a junior in high school right now.
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I agree, I was just sort of poking fun at the "next QB" always being the most popular.
 

Rosemountian said:
Shortell was not impressive early this year. He was popular due to knee jerk reactions based on a few plays.

He definitely will get and deserve a shot at being the qb, but he has shown me nothing that leads me to believe he will start at qb unless it is due to injury.
In 4 quarters against starting defenses that game planned for him (1st 3 against Michigan and 1st against purdue) the team managed like 3 first downs. He is not entitled to anything. But he will get a shot.
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He has moments of impressive play earlier this season. He played pretty well at USC and by just about every standard, you'd say his play was impressive at USC for a true freshman (whether he fits or that was an aberration, i don't know). He also had moments against NDSU.

I was NEVER on the "Start Shortell" bandwagon, but he did have his moments earlier in the year when he played well for a freshman.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Depends on how you define success. He wasn't very good on the field, but he put a lot of millions into his bank account. And despite everything else, that's the reason anyone wants to play professional sports.
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Well it's all kind of irrelevant at this point, I just get excited anytime I see a Matt Jones reference. Not sure there's been a college player more fun to watch than him in the last decade or so (for me at least - a wannabe lanky white kid). But god did I want him to be good in the NFL.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Depends on how you define success. He wasn't very good on the field, but he put a lot of millions into his bank account. And despite everything else, that's the reason anyone wants to play professional sports.
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Not to be picky, but using the term "very succesful NFL player" would be redundant by that definition of "succesful". If Matt Jones was succesful as an NFL player so was Jamarcus Russell and Chris Cook is being a succesful NFL player for the rest of this season (he's getting paid).

I do agree with your general point that you can certainly be a college QB and find a spot in the NFL and have a good career.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Not to be picky, but using the term "very succesful NFL player" would be redundant by that definition of "succesful". If Matt Jones was succesful as an NFL player so was Jamarcus Russell and Chris Cook is being a succesful NFL player for the rest of this season (he's getting paid).

I do agree with your general point that you can certainly be a college QB and find a spot in the NFL and have a good career.
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You're right, I used contradictory terms in the same post. My point was more that these guys stuck in the league for multiple seasons, not necessarily that they were successful.
 

this is a good thread. mostly.

there needs to be less freaking out about conversations about where the team is heading. that's all we've got right now.

also, if gray continues to improve, then he will be the odds on favorite to start next year and will give kill the luxury to red shirt nelson. however, saying that gray is the starter next year as if that ends the conversation is just crotchety (and irrational). a million things could happen before next season that could change things, not least that nelson might be better. this is a message board and its purpose is to elicit discussion. why do people feel the need to shut down any discussion that they disagree with?

gray has looked great the last two games, but he isn't even at adam weber levels yet. he's got 8 tds and 7 ints. in his career. his rating is 122. his completion percentage is hovering around 50%. remember weber's performance versus michigan state in 2009? coming off three poor performances he went out and 19 of 31 for 416 and 5 tds and a 220 passing rating. everyone here jumped back on the weber bandwagon really quick.

remember, kill does not run the stanford offense. there have been true freshmen that have started in spread option offenses. i don't think that gray has been all that good at reading the option, though he has shown improvement, and yes i know that kill's is not a pure spread option (though it features heavily). but if nelson can read the defense on the option play better than gray, then he could be the better qb for the system. who knows. of course that's speculation, but none of us are the ones making these decisions, so i don't suppose its worth raised voices.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Wanna bet what?

It's beyond obvious that you're either a close friend/family member of Nelson (possibly even Philip himself), so you're not exactly coming from a non-partisan stance. Further, you honestly think that Nelson ran a legitimate 4.4 40, so you're not exactly coming from a base of great knowledge either.
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dude. why do you get off on trying to out anonymous message board posters? who cares if a family member or a player himself comes on this board to contribute to the discussion. sure they are not as 'partisan' as you are [/rolleyes], but they have every right to come here and post as anonymously as you do, mr. dpodoll68.

also, you have no idea what nelson's speed is either, so drop the pseudo-logic.
 


mattw1067 said:
Well he sure didn't run a 4.40.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#year=2011&workout=FORTY_YARD_DASH&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-LB-CB-OL-SPEC
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do you know what logic is?

i never said that he did. but i know that i don't know him, never been to mankato and never held a stopwatch (nor done the studies on the margin of error thereof).

pseudo-logic is saying that there has never been a white kid from mankato who's ran a 4.4 40 (groundless assumption in the first place, unless you've timed every white kid in mankato) and therefore phillip nelson does not run a 4.4 40.
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
but they have every right to come here and post as anonymously as you do, mr. dpodoll68.
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No, they don't. I'm just a random nobody. My opinions mean nothing in the grand scale. When someone's close friend/family member/etc. is posting about the person they're close to, they need to disclose it if they want to be taken seriously. Why do you suppose that Wikipedia bans people from editing their own profiles?

bigtenchamps1899 said:
also, you have no idea what nelson's speed is either, so drop the pseudo-logic
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No, I don't know what his speed is. I do know that his 40-yard-dash time is not 4.40 seconds.

bigtenchamps1899 said:
pseudo-logic is saying that there has never been a white kid from mankato who's ran a 4.4 40 (groundless assumption in the first place, unless you've timed every white kid in mankato) and therefore phillip nelson does not run a 4.4 40.
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But there never has been a white kid (or any kid) from Mankato who can run a 4.4. If there were, they would've been playing a high-level sport of some sort, and we would've heard about it. I've never measured the height of every person in Mankato, but I'm pretty confident in saying that there are no 8' tall people in Mankato.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
He has moments of impressive play earlier this season. He played pretty well at USC and by just about every standard, you'd say his play was impressive at USC for a true freshman (whether he fits or that was an aberration, i don't know). He also had moments against NDSU.

I was NEVER on the "Start Shortell" bandwagon, but he did have his moments earlier in the year when he played well for a freshman.
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Definitely not writing him off. I'm just not one to proclaim him anything more than what he is. A freshman backup who only played because the starter was kept having health issues.

He will get a shot. And he should. I wouldn't bet on him though. I have not been impressed by him nearly as much as some others have.
 

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