Tracy Claeys defense

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OddStack said:
I've coached football since graduating college in the 90s...all but 2 years HS. I am a DC/LB coach. We gave up 5.8 ppg one year; 30.3 ppg the next; and 9.7 the year after. What do you think the difference was?

It's not so much your Xs and Os; it's your Jims and Joes.
(That's true more so for HS than college b/c you play the hand your dealt year to year. However, I think that rings very true for this squad!)
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It was all you! At least that's what the parents thought I bet.
 

GFBfan said:
It was all you! At least that's what the parents thought I bet.
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From the 30 point year to the 10 point year....I became a D genius from the perspective graduated players' parents!!!!!
 


PMWinSTP said:
Or they can't successfully develop the talent they recruited...
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PMWinSTP said:
Or they can't successfully develop the talent they recruited...
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Here’s a thought.
Fleck’s first class was thrown together late. Then kids see that the defense has some studs and they may not see the field as they had hoped. Then Fleck ups the recruiting and is able to redshirt some kids. Now he’s stuck for a year with losing 7 off his defense and kids have little experience behind them. We’ll be ok.
 

Tommyboy said:
What happen to the LB from Anoka? He played in one game. I know he won like 1 or 2 games his whole HS career at Anoka.
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No idea but it is really tough recruiting players off of bad football programs (no offense to anoka) because you can rack up tackles and stats when you’re the only guy but are you good at playing a role when you aren’t a stud?

kind of hit and miss

I know nothing about the anoka kid other than that I know he exists
 



GoodasGold said:
Has TC lost weight?
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I hope so, because he was not going to see 65 if he keeps up what he had been doing.

Limegrover lost somthing like 140 or so pounds after bypass surgery. I was hoping TC would take advantage of the U of M Hospital when he was here to try something to save his long term life. My guess is TC used to weigh around 320 to 340 or so, and probably should weigh around 200 or 215,., same deal as ML.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Here’s a thought.
Fleck’s first class was thrown together late. Then kids see that the defense has some studs and they may not see the field as they had hoped. Then Fleck ups the recruiting and is able to redshirt some kids. Now he’s stuck for a year with losing 7 off his defense and kids have little experience behind them. We’ll be ok.
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Or they don't do a good job identifying defensive talent, and have no clear type of player they want. Look at Wisconsin, year after year with average recruits they are good. Same with Iowa. That's what our previous staff was doing on defense (not on offense).
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Or they don't do a good job identifying defensive talent, and have no clear type of player they want. Look at Wisconsin, year after year with average recruits they are good. Same with Iowa. That's what our previous staff was doing on defense (not on offense).
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Just watch where this goes.
 



OddStack said:
I've coached football since graduating college in the 90s...all but 2 have been HS. I am a DC/LB coach. We gave up 5.8 ppg one year; 30.3 ppg the next; and 9.7 the year after. What do you think the difference was?

It's not so much your Xs and Os; it's your Jims and Joes.
(That's true more so for HS than college b/c you play the hand your dealt year to year. However, I think that rings very true for this squad!)
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Bolded: mostly true, but with exceptions as with most things in life.

Obvious exception was Robb Smith. Right? You have to agree. How else can you explain such a drastic change with the same players in 2018?

I'm not sure the same thing has happened here. Was it pure coincidence that the one game we won, the game in which the defense played its best, had Harasymiak calling the defensive plays? Would anyone have produced similar results against hapless Illinois? (note: the very same Robb Smith, at the helm of the Rutgers defense, just lost to the same Illinois team, at home in New Jersey last weekend)
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Or they don't do a good job identifying defensive talent, and have no clear type of player they want. Look at Wisconsin, year after year with average recruits they are good. Same with Iowa. That's what our previous staff was doing on defense (not on offense).
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The point is we don't know for sure yet. We also had a DC switch as well. We also need to be ok with the fact that we may not match Claey's defenses here. We will certainly outscore Limegrover's offenses. More than one way to skin a cat
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Or they don't do a good job identifying defensive talent, and have no clear type of player they want. Look at Wisconsin, year after year with average recruits they are good. Same with Iowa. That's what our previous staff was doing on defense (not on offense).
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You realize that Iowa starts 3 transfers on the D-line.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Or they don't do a good job identifying defensive talent, and have no clear type of player they want. Look at Wisconsin, year after year with average recruits they are good. Same with Iowa. That's what our previous staff was doing on defense (not on offense).
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It's possible.

We'll see. Even Kill and Co at times were happy to throw their young guys out on the field time and again while they failed left and right to get them experience. It paid off for many of them.



I always mention Michael Carter. I knew him early on as the guy the other team would target and miss tackles (and oh man thye were ugly attempts) and just play the WR wrong time and again.

My grandfather was still alive and after the other team would make a big play he'd ask "Was that our friend?"

But after all the really stepped up and was a shutdown kinda guy.
 



manderson1984 said:
The point is we don't know for sure yet. We also had a DC switch as well. We also need to be ok with the fact that we may not match Claey's defenses here. We will certainly outscore Limegrover's offenses. More than one way to skin a cat
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Limegrover offensive points scored vs Iowa:

2011 - 22 (won the game)
2012 - 13
2013 - 7
2014 - 51 (won the game)
2015 - 35


Sanford offensive points scored vs Iowa:
2020 - 7*

* bull___t garbage time TD against Iowa's backups
 

manderson1984 said:
The point is we don't know for sure yet. We also had a DC switch as well. We also need to be ok with the fact that we may not match Claey's defenses here. We will certainly outscore Limegrover's offenses. More than one way to skin a cat
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Yep. My comment wasn't meant as a long-term indictment. Just an observation to this point. They need to be better than this, and not a lot of talent that jumps out right now. Hope it shifts in the near future. Fleck and staff (at least under previous OC) seem to have a clear picture of the type of athletes they want on offense and have recruited them, not all highly recruited but they found talented players. Much better than Kill/Claeys ever did on offense.

It would just be nice to have a staff that seems to identify talent well on both sides of the ball. Wacker was offense. Mason was offense heavy. Kill/Claeys defense. Hoping Fleck and staff can figure out both sides of the ball as they have done consistently at neighboring schools with similar recruiting base.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
It's possible.

We'll see. Even Kill and Co at times were happy to throw their young guys out on the field time and again while they failed left and right to get them experience. It paid off for many of them.



I always mention Michael Carter. I knew him early on as the guy the other team would target and miss tackles (and oh man thye were ugly attempts) and just play the WR wrong time and again.

My grandfather was still alive and after the other team would make a big play he'd ask "Was that our friend?"

But after all the really stepped up and was a shutdown kinda guy.
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I don't know that they ever looked this consistently bad though. Either way, as I just mentioned in another post and as you said, we will see in future years.
 

Looked through the depth charts of the West Division Teams for defense.

Illinois= 8 Sr. 3 Jr. 0 So. 0 Fr. (Probably why Lovie should not have a job)
Iowa= 6 3 2 0
MN= 3 4 2 2
Neb= 7 2 2 0
NW= 7 3 1 0
Pur= 3 3 5 0
WI= 6 3 2 0
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
I don't know that they ever looked this consistently bad though. Either way, as I just mentioned in another post and as you said, we will see in future years.
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At one point Michael Carter had to go to the burn unit at the U hospital he got torched so bad / often...
 

MplsGopher said:
Bolded: mostly true, but with exceptions as with most things in life.

Obvious exception was Robb Smith. Right? You have to agree. How else can you explain such a drastic change with the same players in 2018?

I'm not sure the same thing has happened here. Was it pure coincidence that the one game we won, the game in which the defense played its best, had Harasymiak calling the defensive plays? Would anyone have produced similar results against hapless Illinois? (note: the very same Robb Smith, at the helm of the Rutgers defense, just lost to the same Illinois team, at home in New Jersey last weekend)
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(Like I said...mostly true for HS.)
Correct, but when the turn around from mid-year '18, success from last year, and the atrocity of this year are all share the same defensive mind, then it's the players imo.
As far as the Illinois game.... There is one benefit to having a different play caller at that level, and that is the opponent has zero tendencies and analytics to help predict; that might be a tiny factor. However, the success against Illinois is a combination of zero analytics to go off of and Illinois being horrible. It's not like Harasymiak was putting them in better situations.
 

OddStack said:
I've coached football since graduating college in the 90s...all but 2 have been HS. I am a DC/LB coach. We gave up 5.8 ppg one year; 30.3 ppg the next; and 9.7 the year after. What do you think the difference was?

It's not so much your Xs and Os; it's your Jims and Joes.
(That's true more so for HS than college b/c you play the hand your dealt year to year. However, I think that rings very true for this squad!)
Click to expand...

I think we are lacking a few Jim's and Joe's but I think that's because we were so heavily senior dominated last year, and essentially Fleck's first class wasn't strong with defenders.

2017 class did provide Morgan, CAB, and Ibrahim, but it was largely a WMU class which was light on defenders, with the two best transferring out. The lone Claeys recruit from that class is Andries I believe. Boye Mafe had visited, but didn't commit to Gophers until day before signing day.

We can blame PJ for losing a couple of the safeties which would have been helpful this year, but only one would have played. Other would have been behind Winfield regardless.

But let's not let Claeys completely off the hook for not having any D-line talent recruited coming of a 9 win season.

His 2018 class gets better, but it's heavy on O-line and it brought in Bateman. Three LB's. Oliver, Rush, and MSM. Oliver is probably the best in the group.

His 2019 class looks strong defensively. D.Carter is starting at DT. They are all RS Freshmen.

His 2020 class has Dixon playing now, possibly starting next week. Lindenburg started game one as a true freshman

His 2021 class "looks" like it will be strong defensively.

Play 3-4 players from each of the 2019-2021 classes in 2021-2023, we'll be pretty good.

Grab 8-10 from the 2019-2020 classes this year, and we might stink.

It's not a talent issue. It's a talent pipeline issue.
 
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PMWinSTP said:
Up to you.
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I’ll wait

I think it’s really funny you are so annoyed by my patience considering we have essentially the same position on the coach.


This is what I posted in another thread about 2 days ago:


I don’t know what everyone is fighting about.
I think in January of 2023 it’ll be really clear whether 2019 was a fluke or the start of something
 

Some guy said:
I’ll wait

I think it’s really funny you are so annoyed by my patience considering we have essentially the same position on the coach.


This is what I posted in another thread about 2 days ago:


I don’t know what everyone is fighting about.
I think in January of 2023 it’ll be really clear whether 2019 was a fluke or the start of something
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I'm not annoyed.


I know you posted that elsewhere.
 






One thing is for certain that we sure don’t want the Iowa DC. I had to endure setting behind the Iowa bench with young relatives. Never at no time have I heard such vile language. It would have made a sailor blust. I was so embarrassed with the “stupid MF”. How do you explain that language to a 6 and 7 year old?
 


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