All Things Gopher Players Appeals Process

So how many wins would it have taken to "get out of the political mess". 10 ? , !2 ?, National Championship ?
I don't know because the political mess was targeting the Football team. I think it would have taken three National Championships and ten to twelve straight seasons of zero or one loss in the conference for TC (as a defacto rep of the Kill regime) to overcome that.

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Maybe after the Oregon State game Claeys should have said something along these lines, then the players would have better understood what not to do.
Sam Weinberg: “I strenuously object?” Is that how it’s done? Hm? “Objection, your Honor!” “Overruled” “No, no. I STRENUOUSLY object.” “Oh! You strenuously object. Then I’ll take some time and reconsider.”
Tracy Claeys in the team meeting after the game to his players: Gentlemen, be smart tonight and make good decisions. Players with a blank look on their face. Tracy then says, I strenuously urge you to be smart tonight and make good decisions. Now the players get it and leave the locker room to go straight back to their places and have milk and cookies.
 

Had some reading to do tonight and boy have I missed out!
So you are saying Claeys had your support until he made the comment about it being cold here in MN? That was the last straw for you?
He even had my support after the comment. The comment bothered me enough that I had to look at TC again. I really do think he was politically in over his head. He didn't have solid support in the Athletic Department and I really don't know if he went to Kill or other people he trusted about off the field stuff.

Is TC someone who I would want teaching my kid football skills? Yes.

Is TC someone who could see the scope of trouble a kid could get into off the field? Most likely No.

I think it is for the best that Coyle made the move and brought in Fleck. TC was already caught in the EOAA meat grinder and it would only get worse for him. That would take away from game prep and hurt recruiting.

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He even had my support after the comment. The comment bothered me enough that I had to look at TC again. I really do think he was politically in over his head. He didn't have solid support in the Athletic Department and I really don't know if he went to Kill or other people he trusted about off the field stuff.

Is TC someone who I would want teaching my kid football skills? Yes.

Is TC someone who could see the scope of trouble a kid could get into off the field? Most likely No.

I think it is for the best that Coyle made the move and brought in Fleck. TC was already caught in the EOAA meat grinder and it would only get worse for him. That would take away from game prep and hurt recruiting.

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Why do you think that? Some people act like Claeys is just a guy we found a guy drinking coffee at a greasy spoon 75 miles west of Wichita.

He has been part of college football for 23 years. He has been coaching in relatively clean programs for over two decades. How could people think he wouldn't be hip to the possible hazards and dangers that a team full of 18-22 yr old men could possibly run into?
 

Why do you think that? Some people act like Claeys is just a guy we found a guy drinking coffee at a greasy spoon 75 miles west of Wichita.

He has been part of college football for 23 years. He has been coaching in relatively clean programs for over two decades. How could people think he wouldn't be hip to the possible hazards and dangers that a team full of 18-22 yr old men could possibly run into?
Well that us the way I feel when I look back over the last 18-24 months of Golden Gopher football.

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Well that us the way I feel when I look back over the last 18-24 months of Golden Gopher football.

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I didn't imply that you were saying you knew anything, I got that it was a hunch. I was just curious why that was your hunch. It seems like a strange person to think would be naive to the potential troubles of a college football program. So I was wondering why that was your hunch. That was it.

What happened before the incident in September made you think he was naive to the potential hazards of a college football team?
 

I didn't imply that you were saying you knew anything, I got that it was a hunch. I was just curious why that was your hunch. It seems like a strange person to think would be naive to the potential troubles of a college football program. So I was wondering why that was your hunch. That was it.

What happened before the incident in September made you think he was naive to the potential hazards of a college football team?
I think that how he handled stress times on the field would indicate how he might act off the field. I thought of how chaotic and confused the offense was when he took over for Kiill in 2016. It seemed like he wasn't asserting himself in the head coach role.

Specifically the lack of leadership in the last 19 seconds of the Michigan game. Not calling time out while Leidner was running a play that wasted time and gave Michigan the energy to know that stopping this one play determined the outcome of the game. If they were efficent with their time management, they could have pounded the ball right down Michigan's throat. We were 50/50 on winning the line of scrimmage that day and not giving yourself two chances to punch the ball across the end line for a win was idiotic to me.

Then it was just how many times he gambled on just letting things run theit course during the game. He was 50/50 on the field as I recall. Being 50/50 in dealing with off the field stuff just isn't good enough for a head coach at a P5 University.

It just seemed that if his on field leadership reflected his off field leadership and you realized he was already in the EOAA meat grinder, that said EOAA would have chewed him up by the end of 2018 or beginning of 2019. It would have maintained off the field distractions for the program.

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If you think that i have to quote him verbatim to have an understanding of his lack of control over the players off the field, then you are delusional. Whatever he said or didn't say, his players didn't understand the severity of not behaving properly and got in deep sh*t trouble off the field which is something that stains his leadership.

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You have no clue whatsoever what was said to the players or how it was said. You are simply trying to push your narrative that claeys had no control over the team and you have no idea that was the case or not. You'd be better off sticking to the facts.


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Again, I don't have to know what he said. I know what harm the actions of players who didn't know what acceptable behavior off the field is. It is evident there was a breakdown between what the players thought they could do and what the hunters in the EOAA would use to try to crucify the football program.

All the parties responsible for the football program, players, coaches, trainers, athletic department personnel, were not in agreement with what "outsiders" would use to attack the program. They had no idea what they were up against. That is obvious because here we are struggling with the potential expulsion of players from the University.

Whatever was said, or expressed, was not enough to keep five players and a recruit from engaging in behavior off the field that was harmful to reputation of the football program. Behavior that opened the door for the EOAA to harm the reputations of five additional players with their wide ranging investigation.

So if you are hung up on people being accurate about what was said, then you are missing the point that it wasn't enough to keep players from harming the football program and drawing an administrative monster down on them.

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Its your narrative that claeys didnt do what he was supposed to do that is wrong. You have zero evidence of that since you dont know what he did or said. This could have and likely has on any campus regardless of what rules were in place or what was said to them. Young kids make poor choices all the time despite what they are told.


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He even had my support after the comment. The comment bothered me enough that I had to look at TC again. I really do think he was politically in over his head. He didn't have solid support in the Athletic Department and I really don't know if he went to Kill or other people he trusted about off the field stuff.

Is TC someone who I would want teaching my kid football skills? Yes.

Is TC someone who could see the scope of trouble a kid could get into off the field? Most likely No.

I think it is for the best that Coyle made the move and brought in Fleck. TC was already caught in the EOAA meat grinder and it would only get worse for him. That would take away from game prep and hurt recruiting.

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So now you've taken it upon yourself to start a false narrative that claeys didnt say or do enough to keep players out of trouble without knowing what he said or how he said it? Cool dude.


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You have no clue whatsoever what was said to the players or how it was said. You are simply trying to push your narrative that claeys had no control over the team and you have no idea that was the case or not. You'd be better off sticking to the facts.


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As I said, the only fact that matters is that five players and a recruit engaged in behavior that, regardless of it being consentual, moral or legal, was able to be interpreted as a violation of student conduct. That violation of student conduct was able to go before the EOAA, where their investigative meat grinder brought in five more players up for punishment.

The fact that five players didn't get the message about not violating the student code of conduct, put the five of their teammates in danger of being suspended by association. It also made the remaining 110 players on the team look like idiots by association because of the practice walkout.

These outcome facts negate anything that may have actually been said because whatever was said was not enough to stop five players from putting themselves ahead of the team.



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Some of you are still really slow to get it. The president and AD are taking action to clear the PERCEPTION of rampant sexual culture issue of taking advantage of women, gangbangs, rape or whatever you want to call it. It makes zero difference if there was a crime or not. They are making decisions to clear up this culture. I hope if some players were not involved they get their names cleared, but attacking the AD for doing his job is ridiculous.

They should have taken these actions last year after the basketball incident and maybe there would be one less victim.


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So now you've taken it upon yourself to start a false narrative that claeys didnt say or do enough to keep players out of trouble without knowing what he said or how he said it? Cool dude.


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Nice diversion from Claeys not being able to keep five players from putting themselves ahead of the team.

The false narrative is that the players should be exonerated because the things they did were not wrong or immoral or could possibly have been consentual when they were spelled out as violations of the school's of code of conduct.

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Nice diversion from Claeys not being able to keep five players from putting themselves ahead of the team.

The false narrative is that the players should be exonerated because the things they did were not wrong or immoral or could possibly have been consentual when they were spelled out as violations of the school's of code of conduct.

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You were the one that started a false narrative about claeys with zero facts to back it up. I didnt divert at all and simply pointed it out as false. You have zero facts about what or how claeys talked to the team about staying out of trouble.


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Its your narrative that claeys didnt do what he was supposed to do that is wrong. You have zero evidence of that since you dont know what he did or said. This could have and likely has on any campus regardless of what rules were in place or what was said to them. Young kids make poor choices all the time despite what they are told.


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When you put bread in your toaster and it comes out as the same bread you put in, do you need to know exactly what happened to determine that your toaster is broken?

When you flip the lightswitch in your home and there is no light, do you need to know what happened to know you have a power outage?

So then why is it important to know exactly and without speculation what Claeys said about off the field behavior to know that players put themselves above the student code of conduct?

Some outcomes are sufficient enough to know what did not happen to make the outcome happen.

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You were the one that started a false narrative about claeys with zero facts to back it up. I didnt divert at all and simply pointed it out as false. You have zero facts about what or how claeys talked to the team about staying out of trouble.


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Some outcomes are sufficient enough to know what did not happen to make the outcome happen.

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Some outcomes are sufficient enough to know what did not happen to make the outcome happen.

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Outcomes are not sufficient enough to make stuff up about what someone said or how they said it.


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He even had my support after the comment. The comment bothered me enough that I had to look at TC again. I really do think he was politically in over his head. He didn't have solid support in the Athletic Department and I really don't know if he went to Kill or other people he trusted about off the field stuff.

Is TC someone who I would want teaching my kid football skills? Yes.

Is TC someone who could see the scope of trouble a kid could get into off the field? Most likely No.

I think it is for the best that Coyle made the move and brought in Fleck. TC was already caught in the EOAA meat grinder and it would only get worse for him. That would take away from game prep and hurt recruiting.

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Fully agree with this part.
The lack of support he received this year played into the recruiting or lack of it.
Claeys was a good coach and really showed signs of improvement as the Head Coach from he time he took over mid season all the way through this year.
Could he have taken the program to the next level? I believe with the right support from admin, he would have and would have become a very good coach here at MN, but now we will never know.
Excited to see if Fleck can do it.
 

Someone please go back and clarify the facts for me:

Have the accused been punished by the school?

Have any of them been put on probation, suspended, or expelled?

Has the school determined that they did anything wrong?

We are still going through the process correct?
 

When you put bread in your toaster and it comes out as the same bread you put in, do you need to know exactly what happened to determine that your toaster is broken?

When you flip the lightswitch in your home and there is no light, do you need to know what happened to know you have a power outage?

So then why is it important to know exactly and without speculation what Claeys said about off the field behavior to know that players put themselves above the student code of conduct?

Some outcomes are sufficient enough to know what did not happen to make the outcome happen.

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Have you ever told a kid that they shouldn't do something?
If so did that kid listen to you 100% of the time?
Now take that x120 all at once and you still think that you are going to get 100% compliance with what you say, ALL the time?
 

Someone please go back and clarify the facts for me:

Have the accused been punished by the school?

Have any of them been put on probation, suspended, or expelled?

Has the school determined that they did anything wrong?

We are still going through the process correct?

I'm still waiting on your DA criteria for proceeding with a sexual assault case.
 

Have you ever told a kid that they shouldn't do something?
If so did that kid listen to you 100% of the time?
Now take that x120 all at once and you still think that you are going to get 100% compliance with what you say, ALL the time?
Yes, but not in a life threatening scenario nor if my job was never on the line. If it was, I would have done everything in my power to stress to them the consequences of their actions.

100% compliance is the EOAA standard. Fair? Not fair? Not up for negotiation per Kim Hewlitt.

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Outcomes are not sufficient enough to make stuff up about what someone said or how they said it.


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Outcomes are sufficient to speculate what was not said and understood.

If you are worried about people "making up stuff" then being on an Internet forum where people are trying to figure out what went wrong is not the place for you. It is much less damaging than continually changing your story that you told to legal and administrative authorities. This kind of "making stuff up" is called perjury and is associated with the biblical principle of bearing false witness.

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They should have taken these actions last year after the basketball incident and maybe there would be one less victim.


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There was no victim in the basketball situation.


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There was no victim in the basketball situation.


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No victim in this case either according to the police and DA.


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Outcomes are sufficient to speculate what was not said and understood.

If you are worried about people "making up stuff" then being on an Internet forum where people are trying to figure out what went wrong is not the place for you. It is much less damaging than continually changing your story that you told to legal and administrative authorities. This kind of "making stuff up" is called perjury and is associated with the biblical principle of bearing false witness.

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You havent learned a thing. Beginning a false narrative that the coach didnt say or do enough to keep every single player out of trouble with zero evidence to back it up is just plain stupid.


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You havent learned a thing. Beginning a false narrative that the coach didnt say or do enough to keep every single player out of trouble with zero evidence to back it up is just plain stupid.


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Since when is speculation a false narrative? Speculation is a component of deductive reasoning. A false narrative is the continued wide spread repetition of demonstrably false information.

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Since when is speculation a false narrative? Speculation is a component of deductive reasoning. A false narrative is the continued wide spread repetition of demonstrably false information.

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Should I type more slowly for you to understand this?


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