Strength and conditioning

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It's been pretty disheartening to watch our line play lately, NDSU manhandled us pretty good last game, especially their O-line.

Earlier this Spring, we were told that our new Coach Klein would whip our boys into shape and make them stronger, faster, and better conditioned than the other teams that we'd be playing, we were told that he was one of the best coaches in the country in that regard. I haven't seen that happen yet.

To those that have played and trained at a high level (beyond high school) or who have a fitness background, I would like to get your opinions on what a realistic time frame that we could expect this to happen by now that the coaching staff has been in place and working with the players for 9 months; i.e. since the Kill hire last December.

I'm not saying that Klein has been doing a bad job, he may not have had enough time yet, but what is a realistic amount of time that we should expect to start seeing results in NCAA caliber level athletes.... a few months, a year, two years?
 

hopefully this week. Maybe the strength and conditioning they went through will maybe get to them by getting a wake up call when they lost to NDSU. Maybe it will show up finally and will result in an upset against Michigan on saturday.
 

I would say next year the strength and conditioning will be evident.
 

Small strides can be made in 9 months but we should start seeing things next Spring and Fall. While I haven't watched the line too much, in watched Gray I think he is thinking too much at trying to do what the coaches ask during the week and not what is present. I thought he should have kept it once or twice on the read option. The end wasn't crashing too hard but it seemed like he handed it off every time. He should be more athletic and able to beat that end.
 

The same song and dance as when Brewster started. Very few players appear that they have taken advantage of the weight room. Hageman is the only one coming to mind right now but there are a couple of others.
 


They didn't lose because they were the smaller team. Football isn't all about strength. This is beyond dumb.
 

If we end up seeing significant improvements in the strength and conditioning area, I think it would be next season.
 

Folks are acting like the Gophs are the only college football team in the country that has a strength and conditioning program for it's players. It's no hidden secret. Every program has someone just as good or better than Coach Klein. I have a buddy who was over 300 lbs. and he started to train for a marathon (along with a major diet overhaul) and with 4-5 months he was down to 230-240 and finished TCM under 4.5 hours. Prior to training he never ran more than 5 miles in his life. If he can do that in 5 months, the lads should be able to physically dominate the Fighting Sioux.
 




It's a lot easier to lose that kind of weight and get in shape than it is to gain muscle. I've lost 10 pounds in a month just by joining the ultimate frisbee club here and eating less.
 

zambam said:
It's a lot easier to lose that kind of weight and get in shape than it is to gain muscle. I've lost 10 pounds in a month just by joining the ultimate frisbee club here and eating less.
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I understand that and agree. I was just making the point that drastic changes and improvement are possible in a short span of time if you have the right attitude and effort.
 


S&C on the OL

Let's face it, we have 3 guys on the OL that have been around doing S&C for 4 years. Look how they are getting pushed around. It is about morale at this point. Who is going to motivate these seniors? You can't put everything on Klein or Kill for bearing down and getting push out of these guys. They need to have a great deal more heart.
 



I am not saying that we are anywhere where we need to be, but I am a little perplexed at the amount of people putting blame on our OL for last saturday.

We were able to run the ball pretty well, and I don't remember too much pressure on either of our QBs consistantly.

For me, I think the main reasons we lost the game were mental errors (end of the half was unacceptable) and the difference between QB play. Their QB was effecient and REALLY good on saturday and we couldn't get them off the field. Our QB play wasn't very good. Shortell had a decent drive but then had a costly INT and Gray was bad. If the QB was even and we didn't give up that TD to end the half, I think we win that game by 14.
 

Strength and conditioning are a big part of it...most kids are in a S & C program for 2 years before they are asked to be in the two deep on an O or D Line. The idea of Fr or R-Fr dominating at this level or even being competitive is rare. The few you do hear about generally fall into two categories. 1) The beasts like a Seantrel who is just that good and big, 2) A young player surrounded by dominant players so that the young player isn't burdened with too much.

We all knew that our Senior starting O-linemen were no better than average and the young kids were 1-3 years away from being ready. So we have what we have on the oline. The Dline is just simply lacking quality players. The only player to get any push upfield is Mafuala and he is so undersized that he can't make the play when he gets there.

The last issue and maybe the biggest is technique. All sports, whether you are talking football, baseball, basketball or whatever all have fundamental techniques that allow a player to make his athletic ability and strength work. In football it is all about leverage, angles, positioning, first step...and these fundamentals are different depending on the system. The blocking technique for zone vs. spread vs. pro vs option is hugely different...all the way down to which foot do you step with first, angle and direction of step, line calls adjusting for defenses and blitz, spacing between players and so on. And if you are thinking out on the field you are slow and you make mistakes. If a player is in the same system for 2-3 years, you stop thinking and you just act and react on instinct...this is when we will see the payoff. We got there with Mason, not with Brew, and I think we will get there with Kill.

Now, can Jerry recruit the athletes for his system to compete? Don't know...but I believe his system and coaching staff are good enough if does get the players.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I am not saying that we are anywhere where we need to be, but I am a little perplexed at the amount of people putting blame on our OL for last saturday.

We were able to run the ball pretty well, and I don't remember too much pressure on either of our QBs consistantly.
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I tend to agree with this, I thought their OL vs. our DL was more noticeable. Shouldn't our guys across the board supposedly have more Rivals stars than theirs in theory though, it didn't look like it. I do buy that morale and attitude may be a big component in this. It would be nice to blow a team out of the water for once for these guys to gain some confidence.
 

This isn't the 1970's. Teams spend millions on S&C equipment and full time S&C staff not to gain an edge....it's so they don't fall behind the standard!

If you think there's a single player on the Gopher team, walk-ons even, who don't go through the same S&C stuff that every DI football player in the country is doing....well like I said, you live in the 1970s.
 

BisonGopher said:
This isn't the 1970's. Teams spend millions on S&C equipment and full time S&C staff not to gain an edge....it's so they don't fall behind the standard!

If you think there's a single player on the Gopher team, walk-ons even, who don't go through the same S&C stuff that every DI football player in the country is doing....well like I said, you live in the 1970s.
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Mr. strength expert....so tell me exactly what workout, exercise programs, etc. that EVERY SINGLE DI PLAYER does. I'm very curious and always love to learn. I just figured that every coach/coaching staff MIGHT emphasize different aspects... I guess I'm just clueless
 

BisonGopher said:
This isn't the 1970's. Teams spend millions on S&C equipment and full time S&C staff not to gain an edge....it's so they don't fall behind the standard!

If you think there's a single player on the Gopher team, walk-ons even, who don't go through the same S&C stuff that every DI football player in the country is doing....well like I said, you live in the 1970s.
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Yes they all have S&C programs, but the approach of each program is different.
 

pharmacygopher said:
Mr. strength expert....so tell me exactly what workout, exercise programs, etc. that EVERY SINGLE DI PLAYER does. I'm very curious and always love to learn. I just figured that every coach/coaching staff MIGHT emphasize different aspects... I guess I'm just clueless
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You're absolutely right. Coach Klein has invented an entire regimen of brand new exercises that no on the face of the earth has ever seen before. Furthermore, the fact that in this day and age of the internet that his secret plans have not leaked out is doubly amazing.

Kudos to him - I'm sure that once a sufficient number of reverse-javelin-lat-thrusts have been performed, the Gopher players will be in-humanly strong and the team's performance on the field will increase by the corresponding factor.


Dude, come on. Every lifts weights. Everyone does sprints, short shuttle, plyometrics, etc. There just aren't that many different things that have a positive effect that can be done. I know some S&C try to differentiate themselves by doing thinks with tractor tires, ropes, whatever - but it's all the same thing.

If there were some magic exercise that really did help, everyone would eventually find out about it - NFL teams - and everyone would know about it.


By the way, you should see if you can find some articles about the S&C guy that Rich Rod brought in to Michigan when he got hired. I recall one article about how that guy emphasized flexibility and they did a comparison about how Lloyd Carr's guy made the players stiff and slow. No joke! You can't make this crap up. Yeah, that really did wonders over at the U of Michigan.
 

BisonGopher said:
You're absolutely right. Coach Klein has invented an entire regimen of brand new exercises that no on the face of the earth has ever seen before. Furthermore, the fact that in this day and age of the internet that his secret plans have not leaked out is doubly amazing.

Kudos to him - I'm sure that once a sufficient number of reverse-javelin-lat-thrusts have been performed, the Gopher players will be in-humanly strong and the team's performance on the field will increase by the corresponding factor.


Dude, come on. Every lifts weights. Everyone does sprints, short shuttle, plyometrics, etc. There just aren't that many different things that have a positive effect that can be done. I know some S&C try to differentiate themselves by doing thinks with tractor tires, ropes, whatever - but it's all the same thing.

If there were some magic exercise that really did help, everyone would eventually find out about it - NFL teams - and everyone would know about it.


By the way, you should see if you can find some articles about the S&C guy that Rich Rod brought in to Michigan when he got hired. I recall one article about how that guy emphasized flexibility and they did a comparison about how Lloyd Carr's guy made the players stiff and slow. No joke! You can't make this crap up. Yeah, that really did wonders over at the U of Michigan.*
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Wow...I mean, really...fvcking WOW! Just when I think that you can't possibly look any denser or less logical, you push the envelope.

*No idea how this showed up, it does not appear on my screen, so it may be a remnant from an editing job? Either way, I would vote to ban this jack-hole, but his "logic" is so amusing, and he's not directly insulting people, so I guess I'm kind of enjoying the cat-and-mouse with him [even though he/she doesn't realize they're the mouse] [shhhh don't tell shim].
 

Unregistered User said:
Wow...I mean, really...fvcking WOW! Just when I think that you can't possibly look any denser or less logical, you push the envelope.

*No idea how this showed up, it does not appear on my screen, so it may be a remnant from an editing job? Either way, I would vote to ban this jack-hole, but his "logic" is so amusing, and he's not directly insulting people, so I guess I'm kind of enjoying the cat-and-mouse with him [even though he/she doesn't realize they're the mouse] [shhhh don't tell shim].
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Enlighten us all.

What is that Coach Klein has the players doing that is so ground breaking? Was Brewster's S&C guy having them play cards in the weight room?


Wait...what? "Squats"?! You mean, like...with weight? Like weight on their backs...then they bend at the knees...and use the large muscles of the hips and upper legs to lift the weight up? ...Squats.... really? I mean....yeah...ok...squats, I'm on board. I mean...geez! .. no one in the country does that! I bet! No one!!
 

BisonGopher said:
Dude, come on. Every lifts weights. Everyone does sprints, short shuttle, plyometrics, etc. There just aren't that many different things that have a positive effect that can be done. I know some S&C try to differentiate themselves by doing thinks with tractor tires, ropes, whatever - but it's all the same thing.
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Yup...and all the line coaches say "just block that guy". It's exactly the same thing.

Keep posting...you are proving yourself to be a bigger idiot that I even envisioned.
 


zambam said:
Yes they all have S&C programs, but the approach of each program is different.
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Take Iowa's for example, their S & C program takes the Strain and Collapse approach.
 

BisonGopher said:
Enlighten us all.

What is that Coach Klein has the players doing that is so ground breaking? Was Brewster's S&C guy having them play cards in the weight room?


Wait...what? "Squats"?! You mean, like...with weight? Like weight on their backs...then they bend at the knees...and use the large muscles of the hips and upper legs to lift the weight up? ...Squats.... really? I mean....yeah...ok...squats, I'm on board. I mean...geez! .. no one in the country does that! I bet! No one!!
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So I guess you also think every WR coach coaches the same way? I bet every single 3rd grade teacher in the world does exactly the same thing as well.

As someone who has played small college football, I can tell you that there is a difference between each S&C coach.
 

GophersInIowa said:
So I guess you also think every WR coach coaches the same way? I bet every single 3rd grade teacher in the world does exactly the same thing as well.

As someone who has played small college football, I can tell you that there is a difference between each S&C coach.
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Absolutely. Hell I went through a staff change at the high school level. The S&C changed drastically. The workouts, not so much, but the technique behind the workout, and emphasis did change. A bench press is a bench press, but some coaches may want to player to change their grip, etc. The tweaks here and there add up
 

Coach Klein is a good strength coach. They had a powerhouse program at Southern Illinois, and his Northern Illinois team had no trouble steamrolling the Gophers last year. Give these guys some time. A total change of culture does not happen overnight. Remember the Lou Holtz quote, "Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated" I think alot of that is going on right now.
 

Iowa has a great strength and conditioning program

I believe I read the Chad Greenway was a 200lb safety when he entered Iowa, and he was 242 and just as fast when he left. I think similar weight was added by Matt Roth and some of the dline. I think we need to aim ourselves at what Iowa and Wisconsin do well. Recruit locally for both lines, and out of state for the skill positions. They never get top 20 recruiting classes the way Ohio St. and Michigan do, but they build the quality recruits they do get into very good players.
 

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