Will "Back Against the Wall" Pitino, pull a Rabbit out of his hat?

builtbadgers

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Nice jab.... So who else was Pitino supposed to play at PG last year? I think they will be fine this year.
No one. Other teams had to play their point guard even more than Carr and they did a great deal better than we did but that part was unavoidable for Pitino. Curious, what does fine mean to you ?
 
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builtbadgers

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Right, still subjective as to results. That can mean 7th place is fine for one person, 3rd for another. No one would say fine was a description for a champion. Was asking one person what fine meant to them.
 

GopherBlood666

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No one. Other teams had to play their point guard even more than Carr and they did a great deal better than we did but that part was unavoidable for Pitino. Curious, what does fine mean to you ?
Carr lead the conference in minutes played, and didn't he average over 38 minutes a game? Even if they did play more time, it would have been less than 2 minutes a game.
 

builtbadgers

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Carr lead the conference in minutes played, and didn't he average over 38 minutes a game? Even if they did play more time, it would have been less than 2 minutes a game.
Point was, they played a very similar amount and it was not a factor. These guys play big minutes in back to backs in preseason tourney's AND IN THE CONFERENCE TOURNEY. Then in the NCAA the best teams play 2 games in 36 - 48 hours and pull full games , even overtime. Rest occurs in blowouts. If they are too tired with all the timeouts, tv timeouts then conditioning is a issue.
 

GopherBlood666

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Point was, they played a very similar amount and it was not a factor. These guys play big minutes in back to backs in preseason tourney's AND IN THE CONFERENCE TOURNEY. Then in the NCAA the best teams play 2 games in 36 - 48 hours and pull full games , even overtime. Rest occurs in blowouts. If they are too tired with all the timeouts, tv timeouts then conditioning is a issue.
Mental fatigue during a game can play as much a factor as physical fatigue. I'm not suggesting the minutes Carr played was make or break for the team last season, but having someone reliable to come off the bench and give a different look has it's value as well. There were times last season even with a fully rested Carr where he wasn't doing much on the floor.
 

builtbadgers

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Mental fatigue during a game can play as much a factor as physical fatigue. I'm not suggesting the minutes Carr played was make or break for the team last season, but having someone reliable to come off the bench and give a different look has it's value as well. There were times last season even with a fully rested Carr where he wasn't doing much on the floor.
Agree. Another factor on the mental side, how your team is playing can really wear you down. That is another huge factor in how a few of the coaches i know and follow build into both the offense and the defense to rob the opponent of the mental will to compete and often i have seen the other team given in. Running them through picks and screens over and over and then on defense , always being low and wide and never giving anything , forcing tough passes,tough shots. These things drain you mentally and physically. These programs have the most grueling practices you can find.
 

GopherBlood666

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Agree. Another factor on the mental side, how your team is playing can really wear you down. That is another huge factor in how a few of the coaches i know and follow build into both the offense and the defense to rob the opponent of the mental will to compete and often i have seen the other team given in. Running them through picks and screens over and over and then on defense , always being low and wide and never giving anything , forcing tough passes,tough shots. These things drain you mentally and physically. These programs have the most grueling practices you can find.
Obviously speculating, but Carr easily could have adopted the mind set of pacing himself throughout a game due to knowing there was really no one behind him who could produce. Carr was best on the attack, but played restrained at times when we really needed him to be aggressive.
 

builtbadgers

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Obviously speculating, but Carr easily could have adopted the mind set of pacing himself throughout a game due to knowing there was really no one behind him who could produce. Carr was best on the attack, but played restrained at times when we really needed him to be aggressive.
This year having more ball handlers will allow Carr a chance to catch his breath off the ball, but never and i mean never on defense.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Built - do you buy into the theory that playing heavy minutes has a cumulative effect?

In other words, a player who logs heavy minutes every game accumulates more wear and tear, and is more worn down by the end of the season. Whereas, a player who logs fewer minutes avoids some of that wear and tear and is a little fresher at the end of the season, making them better able to handle heavy minutes in a conference tournament situation.

I tend to subscribe to the theory that, if you can get guys some rest, especially early in the season, do it. that extra 4 or 5 minutes a game may not seem like much, but over the course of the long season, it has an impact. at least IMHO.

Not to mention the fact that some guys, for reasons of genetics, body type or whatever, just seem to be able to handle heavy minutes more easily than others. very important for a coach to know what his players can handle - some guys are just different than others.
 

builtbadgers

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Built - do you buy into the theory that playing heavy minutes has a cumulative effect?

In other words, a player who logs heavy minutes every game accumulates more wear and tear, and is more worn down by the end of the season. Whereas, a player who logs fewer minutes avoids some of that wear and tear and is a little fresher at the end of the season, making them better able to handle heavy minutes in a conference tournament situation.

I tend to subscribe to the theory that, if you can get guys some rest, especially early in the season, do it. that extra 4 or 5 minutes a game may not seem like much, but over the course of the long season, it has an impact. at least IMHO.

Not to mention the fact that some guys, for reasons of genetics, body type or whatever, just seem to be able to handle heavy minutes more easily than others. very important for a coach to know what his players can handle - some guys are just different than others.
Yes, i by that and each person is different. These teams monitor the conditioning from beginning to end. Some people have a better engine and have better endurance then others. I have seen guys come in out shape and others who have never been out of shape. Ideally if your guys are in the best condition possible you will still want them in that shape at the end of a game and the end of a season both mentally and physically. I love Carr but he could have improved his conditioning plus the team was short in combination guard effectiveness so he carried a large load and we were often in desperate to win games all year so there really was not a place to spell him often, lets say in a dead ball 30 seconds before a TV timeout and 1st or second dead ball after. Only as a example of the conditioning, not as some promotion but i saw a zoom conference of Perrantes and Hall, two UVA freshman from 2013-14 talking about after the very first team practice of their careers sharing if that was as hard as practice was going to be then they did not think they could make it. Every player on that said the same thing . The point being that practices should be exceedingly difficult, especially in the hard labor of defense, focus, intensity and execution. They all told the stories of games being easy. That is why in recruiting it is spelled out that it will be really hard work on and off the court, no favors, not even for the green team. Simply put, it is not for everyone. So long story short, each person is different, how large is their engine to process oxygen, how poised do they stay emotionally, how much drive do they actually have . How much did they do on their own. So many kids are the best they ever had from their high school, among the best on their AAU team and have coasted at 80%. What happens when they have to go a 100% , maybe 17 minutes in a grueling stance or fighting through picks not to mention transition or running around screens, jumping, finding a body, block out. The theory is to never lose because the other team was better than you in conditioning and emotional strength. Lose because the other team made more shots, had better players, cold shooting. Hundreds of games i have seen one team simply outwork and out smart the other team. My father told me there were two things i simply could not be, lazy and stupid. That is a terrible combination. Part of stupid can be diminished by work but that being really smart would not cover that much of lazy.
 

60's Guy

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Conditioning can be measured by how quickly they recover. Are they fresh after a 30 second timeout, after an official reporting a foul, after free throws are shot? If not the team needs better conditioning. Cannot pace...must play hard on defense 100% of the time.
I think minutes played in large part are what you are used to. It’s why teams play starters deep into a blowout early in the season. Gophers mostly only play twice a week in conference.
I get the idea of resting guys for the end of the year by playing less minutes throughout the season but don’t subscribe to it. I don’t think it’s necessary.

If you are going to ask a guy to increase his minutes in crucial games at years end..
I think he has a better chance to perform if he is already used to playing a lot.

But, on the flip side...winding down the season is when I’m going to play somebody less minutes in a win to be fresher for the next game. At this point they are in game condition and you want to build some depth.

And...having said all that there are a million variables. Nagging injuries, fragile egos, upcoming schedule, score of the game, emerging non starter coming on strong, attitudes, mood of the team, gut feelings, matchups, motivation messages, next year and more is all a factor in minutes.
 
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alchemy2u

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Conditioning is important, but let us not forget that they have learn how to do it much more effectively. Sprinters will never become marathoners (or vice versa) and each needs very different training. The days of just running people into the ground every day is long gone. Look at how PJ runs his practices, short and high tempo. Swimming coaches used to have everyone swim miles for conditioning, now sprinters swim short intense cycles with quick recoveries. Hockey players do over speed training to increase speed and develop quick feet. Weightlifting is melded with muscle specific stretches to develop power and flexibility. Of course, many coaches still start out with the "pukers" just to give the players a sense of reality and show their commitment to putting in the effort.
 

builtbadgers

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Conditioning is important, but let us not forget that they have learn how to do it much more effectively. Sprinters will never become marathoners (or vice versa) and each needs very different training. The days of just running people into the ground every day is long gone. Look at how PJ runs his practices, short and high tempo. Swimming coaches used to have everyone swim miles for conditioning, now sprinters swim short intense cycles with quick recoveries. Hockey players do over speed training to increase speed and develop quick feet. Weightlifting is melded with muscle specific stretches to develop power and flexibility. Of course, many coaches still start out with the "pukers" just to give the players a sense of reality and show their commitment to putting in the effort.
The condition i referred to is very specific to basketball in concert with a great conditioning coach and trainer , with a monitoring vest and fast transitions to each drill. Additionally time with Bob Rotella all in concert with a coach who already went through it as a player. Contributions from another player who went through his own experience and found out what he thought was difficult was in fact not hard enough. All input on nutrition and recovery'. The work required id for champions.
 
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