Why such a short bench in an awful effort?

Otis

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I'm concerned with Pitino's substitution patterns. Why does he only play 7 or 8 guys during the meaningful part of the game when you have results like this.

No Williams or Greenlee until mop up time? - when your guards can't hit the ocean while sitting in a boat why not give some of the other guys a shot? No reason to keep these guys on the bench when the starters are struggling.

Ihnen got 1 min in the first half? did he get hurt? What does 1 minute do for anyone.

He can't possibly expect these guys to get better by sitting on the bench.
 

cjbfbp

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I'm concerned with Pitino's substitution patterns. Why does he only play 7 or 8 guys during the meaningful part of the game when you have results like this.

No Williams or Greenlee until mop up time? - when your guards can't hit the ocean while sitting in a boat why not give some of the other guys a shot? No reason to keep these guys on the bench when the starters are struggling.

Ihnen got 1 min in the first half? did he get hurt? What does 1 minute do for anyone.

He can't possibly expect these guys to get better by sitting on the bench.
 

bga1

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I totally agree. I was very frustrated early when Ihnen got in early (which must have meant he had been practicing well) he got a rebound mixing it up inside, but then was unaware of the clock and passed it back out. Pitino immediately pulled him and he was gone for the game. I don't like that.

It is really unfortunate that we finally played a real tough non-conference schedule in a year where we have a green team with a ton of newcomers and a coach that is on the hot seat. Pitino is coaching scared and it shows.
 

cjbfbp

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I'll offer two explanations:

1) He has revealed himself over the years to be a very stubborn coach.

2) Perhaps he is thinking about NET rankings and the need to squeeze as much efficiency as he can out of the playing minutes. At this point, I think that mind frame would be delusional because this team isn't going to get any consideration for the NCAA tournament and unlikely to be in the running for an NIT berth.
 

Gophs24

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very good point to bring up....3 of the 5 starters showed very little effort and intensity. yank them out and give Greenlee, Williams, & Ihnen some run! They need the in game experience moving forward!
 

Go Gophs

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Do you want the honest answer?

The kids past our starting 5 aren't good. They just don't have it. It's talent that is lacking on this roster more than anything Pitino has or hasn't done with substitutions or game play. They can't shoot. They have trouble rebounding, they turn the ball over frequently. If any team needs to play a clean game to win, this is it. Should be focused on defense and rebounding and taking the air out of the ball and pounding it in hard to Oturo.
They got just killed in transition yesterday, that has everything to do with "want". Didn't see alot of it last night.
 

Gophs24

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Do you want the honest answer?

The kids past our starting 5 aren't good. They just don't have it. It's talent that is lacking on this roster more than anything Pitino has or hasn't done with substitutions or game play. They can't shoot. They have trouble rebounding, they turn the ball over frequently. If any team needs to play a clean game to win, this is it. Should be focused on defense and rebounding and taking the air out of the ball and pounding it in hard to Oturo.
They got just killed in transition yesterday, that has everything to do with "want". Didn't see alot of it last night.
your last sentence says it all though....Carr, Gabe, & Willis didn't show much of any effort last night....that is the exact time as a coach you pull them out and let the next guy go....prove a point...if you show that kind of lack of effort you aint gonna be playing.
 

Thymanst

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pitino is a lot better off selling this as a rebuilding year and play everyone. When two starters go 1-20, and another starter has 8 turnovers(even though he was the best player on the floor) what is there to lose playing everyone, building a bench and not wearing down your starters.(Matt painter is good at this, taking lumps early and peaking later in season)
 

Otis

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Do you want the honest answer?

The kids past our starting 5 aren't good. They just don't have it. It's talent that is lacking on this roster more than anything Pitino has or hasn't done with substitutions or game play. They can't shoot. They have trouble rebounding, they turn the ball over frequently. If any team needs to play a clean game to win, this is it. Should be focused on defense and rebounding and taking the air out of the ball and pounding it in hard to Oturo.
They got just killed in transition yesterday, that has everything to do with "want". Didn't see alot of it last night.
You must be talking about the starters. We never got to see what the bench players could do.
 

scools12

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The short bench because the "highly touted" freshmen class is made up of projects. They are not ready to be immediate impact players.

Pitino isn't the great recruiter as some try and lead you to believe.
 

bga1

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your last sentence says it all though....Carr, Gabe, & Willis didn't show much of any effort last night....that is the exact time as a coach you pull them out and let the next guy go....prove a point...if you show that kind of lack of effort you aint gonna be playing.
Yep. I don't care if we lost by 30 last night with the bench on the floor. Play them and send the message that we aren't going to play basketball like that. There was no reason that Ihnen, Williams and Greenlee should not have at least seen 5-10 minutes each considering the effort we saw on the floor. Greenlee, especially, is a winner who would give effort and perhaps some leadership.
 

bga1

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The short bench because the "highly touted" freshmen class is made up of projects. They are not ready to be immediate impact players.

Pitino isn't the great recruiter as some try and lead you to believe.
They don't have to be impact players to see the floor and give an all out effort to change the momentum and attitude out there. Last night they should have seen the floor for significant minutes. The starters had their heads down.

As far as the roster goes, this should have been a year where Coffey (not ready for the NBA) and Curry were on the floor and we would not have had an issue with development guys. Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way so you have to play them and let them get better.

Someone said it but Pitino should have sold this as a team that will take time to get better and rebuild.
I think that all of the young guys will be solid or better if they are here 4 years
 

topos

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I remember watching that grainy footage from Italy this summer. Greenlee was better than Carr by a longshot. Handled the ball, ran the offense, played defense, only shot when open, and knocked them down. I figured it was an anomaly and that Carr was likely working out some rust.

Unfortunately, it wasn't rust. Carr is not a capable PG. I think Pitino realizes this, but with all the promoting he has done the last two years, how bad would it reflect on him if our spring signee that nobody had ever heard of is better than the savior of the program?

Pitino picks his favorites every year and does not waiver from them. It is inexplicable that the younger guys haven't gotten more run. Carr, Willis, and Gabe are probably the best guard options, but when Gabe is pouting, Carr is flailing his arms on another blown D assignment, and Willis forgets to guard Iowa's best 3 pt shooter right after halftime, you need to send a message.

For those afraid to start over, we are already bottomed out.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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It's pretty simple. Pitino is coaching for his job. He probably agrees with most of you and the freshman should play more. But the starters HAVE. to turn it around if the season is going to be a success
 

Otis

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I remember watching that grainy footage from Italy this summer. Greenlee was better than Carr by a longshot. Handled the ball, ran the offense, played defense, only shot when open, and knocked them down. I figured it was an anomaly and that Carr was likely working out some rust.

Unfortunately, it wasn't rust. Carr is not a capable PG. I think Pitino realizes this, but with all the promoting he has done the last two years, how bad would it reflect on him if our spring signee that nobody had ever heard of is better than the savior of the program?

Pitino picks his favorites every year and does not waiver from them. It is inexplicable that the younger guys haven't gotten more run. Carr, Willis, and Gabe are probably the best guard options, but when Gabe is pouting, Carr is flailing his arms on another blown D assignment, and Willis forgets to guard Iowa's best 3 pt shooter right after halftime, you need to send a message.

For those afraid to start over, we are already bottomed out.
I totally agree with your post!

I hate seeing lack of effort and would rather see guys ball out and make mistakes than give less than full effort and still suck!

Next game, if Pitino has a pair, he should roll out the following starting lineup:

PG: Greenlee
SG: Williams
SF: Ihnen
PF: Demir
C: Oturu

At least this would send a message! Hopefully the starters would be pissed and remember you have to play hard to stay on the court. If they sulk and play the same then they don't see the floor again.
 

WorkingMyTailOff

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Are the posts above talking about lack of defensive effort (not getting back on d, allowing open cutters, and uncontested shot)? I think the defense was pretty horrid and to me that has been the biggest disappointment with Pitino's teams.
I thought Demir and Oturu played well at least on the offensive side.
 

WoodburyTim

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The fact that the freshman can't see any time on this team does inspire much confidence in their future.
 

bga1

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I totally agree with your post!

I hate seeing lack of effort and would rather see guys ball out and make mistakes than give less than full effort and still suck!

Next game, if Pitino has a pair, he should roll out the following starting lineup:

PG: Greenlee
SG: Williams
SF: Ihnen
PF: Demir
C: Oturu

At least this would send a message! Hopefully the starters would be pissed and remember you have to play hard to stay on the court. If they sulk and play the same then they don't see the floor again.
I like it except I would plug in Willis, who is our headiest player in for Demir. I would not do that against OSU, though,I would do it in the non -conference game. However, in the OSU game, I would make it loud and clear...anything less than a dive on the floor effort and the subs come in. The misses shots, by the way, are partly a lack of focus and effort as well.
 

Block M

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Do you want the honest answer?

The kids past our starting 5 aren't good. They just don't have it. It's talent that is lacking on this roster more than anything Pitino has or hasn't done with substitutions or game play. They can't shoot. They have trouble rebounding, they turn the ball over frequently. If any team needs to play a clean game to win, this is it. Should be focused on defense and rebounding and taking the air out of the ball and pounding it in hard to Oturo.
They got just killed in transition yesterday, that has everything to do with "want". Didn't see alot of it last night.
Uhh...our starting 5 is not very good. Carr and Kalscheur should have been out.
 

bga1

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It's pretty simple. Pitino is coaching for his job. He probably agrees with most of you and the freshman should play more. But the starters HAVE. to turn it around if the season is going to be a success
That has been the problem for 20 years here, everyone is always coaching for their job, except Tubby Smith who often looked like he was coaching to go home to bed. Coaches here have been on the hot seat for 10 of the last 20 years it seems.
 

Block M

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Are the posts above talking about lack of defensive effort (not getting back on d, allowing open cutters, and uncontested shot)? I think the defense was pretty horrid and to me that has been the biggest disappointment with Pitino's teams.
I thought Demir and Oturu played well at least on the offensive side.
Outside of Oturu's six traveling violations? Not a great performance by him.
 

SelectionSunday

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That has been the problem for 20 years here, everyone is always coaching for their job, except Tubby Smith who often looked like he was coaching to go home to bed. Coaches here have been on the hot seat for 10 of the last 20 years it seems.
By all means, keep taking shots at Tubby. That will accomplish a lot.
 

bga1

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By all means, keep taking shots at Tubby. That will accomplish a lot.
He is the most frustrating coach to me, because he was the best of them. With a decent effort he could have changed the arc of the program. I was thrilled when Tubby got here and I think he is a great man.
Sorry, that's just what I think. I don't think any of this accomplishes a lot. I think it would be better if we didn't discuss firing the current coach early in the season either. But we do it.
 

alchemy2u

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Yep. I don't care if we lost by 30 last night with the bench on the floor. Play them and send the message that we aren't going to play basketball like that. There was no reason that Ihnen, Williams and Greenlee should not have at least seen 5-10 minutes each considering the effort we saw on the floor. Greenlee, especially, is a winner who would give effort and perhaps some leadership.
I agree, you need to give the other players a chance to change it up. Remember the year when Pitino finally hand the team over to the freshman. They didn’t win a lot of games, but they made it more fun to watch and helped set up the next year. Pitino has to trust his guys more instead of just riding what is not working.
 

Block M

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It's pretty simple. Pitino is coaching for his job. He probably agrees with most of you and the freshman should play more. But the starters HAVE. to turn it around if the season is going to be a success
I actually disagree with this. Pitino is paid and will be paid whether or not he does well this year. He will be paid even if the AD decides to fire him and he will have little trouble finding another coaching opportunity. Pitino is doing things his way, the way he thinks they ought to be done. Stubborn? I think we have a large enough body of work to suggest that Pitino is modestly flexible but adherent to his coaching philosophies.

I think we'll see a transition to more PT For the freshmen if the team is not in the mix after the first half of the season.
 

gopherhoopsguy

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So many have hit this on the head! Pitino has no clue. Only way to turn around this season is to get your recruits some playing time and hope they develop fast if they don’t this team isn’t going anywhere with the 7 there rolling out there now. How in the world do those guards each get over 30 minutes last night. And the 3 top recruits have a combined 10 minutes is absolutely a coaching travesty. Greelee kid looks better than Carr. Gabe other than the beginning of last season hasn’t done anything besides guard a little. Ihnen looks like he has great upside and can’t see the floor. Richard u need to play these kids to try and save your job.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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I actually disagree with this. Pitino is paid and will be paid whether or not he does well this year. He will be paid even if the AD decides to fire him and he will have little trouble finding another coaching opportunity. Pitino is doing things his way, the way he thinks they ought to be done. Stubborn? I think we have a large enough body of work to suggest that Pitino is modestly flexible but adherent to his coaching philosophies.

I think we'll see a transition to more PT For the freshmen if the team is not in the mix after the first half of the season.
It's rare that anyone disagrees with my wonderful takes. But you make a fair point. I just think you discount getting fired a little too much.
 

idagopher

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maybe the fans should boycott the next game and show up with play the frosh signs them leave again.
 
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