Why Doesn't Rick Spielman Draft Golden Gophers?

balds

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,622
Reaction score
323
Points
83
I believe Osborne was taken after TJ was already gone. And I believe that they took him as a return specialist which TJ definitely was not.

I wouldn't doubt that Spielman has a "thing" against the Gophers. His son played for Nebraska and got trounced. Considering how many late round picks he acquires each year....and how many Gophers go in those rounds....I feel like a Gopher would end up here eventually. A number of low round Gophers have gotten playing time other than on special teams for their teams. I think it's an easier case to make that he SHOULD be looking at Gophers in the late rounds because they are being under-evaluated. Also because as a fan...I think the hometown angle should give an edge when you are talking about filling out a roster with probable special teams or practice squad guys.

Correct. Johnson was pick 161, Osborne 176. However the Vikings had pick 155 and traded down to 176 in exchange for a 2021 fourth round pick.

If you're going to take a WR in that round, I can't see how you take Osborne over a kid who just had a season where he wrecked Penn St., Iowa, Auburn, etc.

A return man? In the NFL where 90% of kickoffs are touchbacks, when you play inside probably 9-11 times a year (where probably 95% are touchbacks).
 

die hard gopher

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
9,140
Reaction score
609
Points
113
I think they should’ve known. Because they suck.
Well they were coming off a 10-6 season (would have been 11-5 had they not benched their starters) and a playoff win. So they definitely did not suck at the time.
 

WhoFellDownTheGopherHole?

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
3,552
Reaction score
2,473
Points
113
There was a good chance Harris wasn't going to be with the team last year and the Vikings would have, in fact, needed a safety. I'm not sure AW Jr was #1 on their board for the position, but i think he was definitely on their radar.

As it were, i'm so happy for him that he is not a Viking.
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,796
Reaction score
1,857
Points
113
Well they were coming off a 10-6 season (would have been 11-5 had they not benched their starters) and a playoff win. So they definitely did not suck at the time.
They sucked when their defense got clearly worse in the offseason.
Replaced decent corners with rookies. Didn’t replace DL absenses. By week 4 Barr was done.

didn’t fix o line. They ended up having a top 5 rookie and still couldn’t match.


they’re getting old. The sooner they realize that the better: Super Bowl 2025
 

UpAndUnder43

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
6,843
Reaction score
2,448
Points
113
Honestly the one gopher I really wanted was AW Jr. big miss but I think every team passed on him at least once. Guessing many would take him now. Hindsight and all that
 

die hard gopher

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
9,140
Reaction score
609
Points
113
They sucked when their defense got clearly worse in the offseason.
Replaced decent corners with rookies. Didn’t replace DL absenses. By week 4 Barr was done.

didn’t fix o line. They ended up having a top 5 rookie and still couldn’t match.


they’re getting old. The sooner they realize that the better: Super Bowl 2025
They replaced Linval with a younger Michael Pierce and traded for the DE from the Jags.

They also drafted OL Ezra Cleveland in the second.
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,073
Reaction score
4,479
Points
113
Correct. Johnson was pick 161, Osborne 176. However the Vikings had pick 155 and traded down to 176 in exchange for a 2021 fourth round pick.

If you're going to take a WR in that round, I can't see how you take Osborne over a kid who just had a season where he wrecked Penn St., Iowa, Auburn, etc.

A return man? In the NFL where 90% of kickoffs are touchbacks, when you play inside probably 9-11 times a year (where probably 95% are touchbacks).

I said the same thing. If you know that you need a receiver....why trade down in order to gain a mostly worthless pick and end up with a worse WR.

Again...the only thing that I could think of is that they wanted Osborne for his return abilities (that ended up sucking).
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,073
Reaction score
4,479
Points
113
I would.

look at post #10 in this thread. 28 other teams have drafted the same amount of less gophers than Spielman since he has been GM.

There is way too much money at stake for Spielman to hold a grudge against gophers for something stupid like Nebraska and his son getting trounced by us. They have also trounced us as well when he was there.

And ultimately Spielman is going to do what he feels is best for the organization and if he feels their is the slightest difference in talent between two players in the late round and one is a gopher, he should take the player that he feels is a slightly better prospect.

I wouldn't expect Spielman to favor a Gopher when another prospect is clearly the better fit. But I think that this becomes more of a negligible amount in the sixth and seventh round.....a place where Spielman continuously accumulates picks every year. Seriously....go back through our last several drafts and tell me which 6/7th round guys have contributed much of anything. Odenigbo in 2017 stands out. Jayron Kearse and Stephen Weatherly from 2016? Kris Boyd (2019) has played and sucked. That's out of 25 6th/7th round picks from the last five years.
 

balds

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,622
Reaction score
323
Points
83
I said the same thing. If you know that you need a receiver....why trade down in order to gain a mostly worthless pick and end up with a worse WR.

Again...the only thing that I could think of is that they wanted Osborne for his return abilities (that ended up sucking).

Yes. Osborne had 7 punt returns for 27 yards. Johnson was making key plays in the NFC Championship game for the Super Bowl Champs:unsure:
 

die hard gopher

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
9,140
Reaction score
609
Points
113
I wouldn't expect Spielman to favor a Gopher when another prospect is clearly the better fit. But I think that this becomes more of a negligible amount in the sixth and seventh round.....a place where Spielman continuously accumulates picks every year. Seriously....go back through our last several drafts and tell me which 6/7th round guys have contributed much of anything. Odenigbo in 2017 stands out. Jayron Kearse and Stephen Weatherly from 2016? Kris Boyd (2019) has played and sucked. That's out of 25 6th/7th round picks from the last five years.
Bisi Johnson, Shamar Stephen, David Morgan, Brandon Fusco, Blair Walsh
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,073
Reaction score
4,479
Points
113
Bisi Johnson, Shamar Stephen, David Morgan, Brandon Fusco, Blair Walsh

Bisi Johnson has played. I debated whether to include him due to his diminished role.....but I guess you could. Morgan? Again....ok. Stephen was drafted seven years ago. Fusco, nine? Walsh, eight? Those three definitely don't count towards the 25 from the past five years.
 

#2Gopher

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
6,543
Reaction score
1,132
Points
113
The whole organization really... Zimmer doesn't seem to inspire much from the team, we keep getting these 'awe shucks' games from the players, even in the playoffs...
Perhaps he is tougher on them in the meetings. Doesn't throw them under the bus to the press. I get what you're saying though.
 

hungan1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
10,436
Reaction score
1,083
Points
113
I could be totally wrong on this but I highly doubt they give a ton of thought as to where a guy went to college in regards to whether they want to draft him or not. In otherwords I would be shocked to find that Spielman would pass on the top player on their draft board simply because he was a Gopher or that he would exclude players from their draft board on the basis of them playing at the U of M.

This is an example of the "one of us" obsession that some fans have up here. We see it with the hand wringing that goes on in the recruiting threads about not signing more Minnesota kids.

Love that the writer thinks there can ONLY be 2 reasons the Vikings don't draft Gophers. Spielman doesn't want to be seen as making lazy homer picks OR he is haunted by a draft pick that didn't work out in 2010. Yeah, can't be any other possible reasons.... :)

I get it drafting for positions of need, but wouldn't AWJr look great and play great in a Vikings uniform? Just think of the PR value.

Coach Bruce Arians saw something in both TJ & AWJr that the Vikings never saw.

They got both for a bargain. I am happy that they got Super Bowl rings!
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,073
Reaction score
4,479
Points
113
I get it drafting for positions of need, but wouldn't AWJr look great and play great in a Vikings uniform? Just think of the PR value.

Coach Bruce Arians saw something in both TJ & AWJr that the Vikings never saw.

They got both for a bargain. I am happy that they got Super Bowl rings!

They didn't end up in Tampa by chance. Arians saw them play in person and knew what they were capable of. Stole them both.
 

Gopher028

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
2,545
Reaction score
142
Points
63
Slick Rick is an O$U dbag.
Hates the U. He offered O$U the Vikings heated benches back when
the Vikings were borrowing the bank. Complete d-word.

He's had some big hits with draft picks, and he's had some serious
failures based on his personal beefs.
 

tjgopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
4,725
Reaction score
452
Points
83
Correct. tOSU has been to TCF Bank Stadium once since the dome collapsed and it was after the Vikes were out.

Not true. Buckeyes played at TCF Bank Stadium in 2014. The Vikings played their entire home schedule at TCF Bank Stadium in both 2014 and 2015.
 
Last edited:

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,796
Reaction score
1,857
Points
113
They replaced Linval with a younger Michael Pierce and traded for the DE from the Jags.

They also drafted OL Ezra Cleveland in the second.
I didn’t say they didn’t try to fix the o line. They’ve been trying for years.

As for Michael Pierce. Got unlucky with Covid I guess. Same bad luck with hunter
 

TurfGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
372
Reaction score
294
Points
63
This isn’t true.
I have raised and lowered the field goal nets a couple times as a grounds crew volunteer. A TCF stadium grounds worker told me this factoid and OSU played at TCF in 2014. Its true.
OSU2014.jpg
 

balds

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,622
Reaction score
323
Points
83
I didn’t say they didn’t try to fix the o line. They’ve been trying for years.

As for Michael Pierce. Got unlucky with Covid I guess. Same bad luck with hunter

ehh........

Offensive lineman drafted under Spielman (round taken)

2012 Matt Kalil, 1
2013 Travis Boyd, 7
2014 David Yankey, 5
2015 TJ Clemmings, 4 Tyrus Thompson, 6 Austin Shepard, 7
2016 Willie Beavers, 4
2017 Pat Elfin, 3 Danny Isadora, 5
2018 Brian O'Neill, 2
2019 Garrett Bradbury, 1 Oli Udoh, 6
2020 Ezra Cleveland, 2 Blake Brandel, 6 Kyle Hinton 7

He has drafted an offensive lineman in the first round twice in nine years. However, his judgement on those picks appears suspect. In 2012 the two tackles taken after Kalil were Reilly Reiff and Mitchell Schwartz. We ended up signing Reiff to a hefty contract after Kalil fizzled out. Mitchell Schwartz had a string of 120 starts and was named to CBS Sports all decade team in 2019. Bradbury looks like a bust at this point.
 
Last edited:

West Fargo Gopher Fan

Section 114 Row 2
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
3,218
Reaction score
81
Points
48
Rick Spielman has been with the Vikings since 2006. According to this gophersports.com listing, 23 Gophers have been drafted since 2006. Here is the details of them per NFL team:

49ers
0​
Bengals
0​
Bills
0​
Browns
0​
Cardinals
0​
Chargers
0​
Colts
0​
Eagles
0​
Lions
0​
Panthers
0​
Raiders
0​
Saints
0​
Seahawks
0​
Bears
1​
Chiefs
1​
Cowboys
1​
Dolphins
1​
Giants
1​
Jaguars
1​
Packers
1​
Patriots
1​
Rams
1​
Ravens
1​
Redskins
1​
Steelers
1​
Texans
1​
Titans
1​
Vikings
1​
Broncos
2​
Buccaneers
2​
Falcons
2​
Jets
2​

So there are 13 teams that drafted less Gophers (0) than the Vikings, 14 teams that drafted the same number (1) and only four teams that drafted more (2). So unless your argument is that the home team should draft more local players regardless of talent evaluation, you could ask the same exact question about 28 out of 32 NFL teams.
Now factor in all the Gophers that have had tryouts and were undrafted (Sherels, Leidner) Vikings would be even higher. Im not even a Vikings fan.
 

TurfGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
372
Reaction score
294
Points
63
It very well could have been. It was really snowy, pretty close game too!
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,796
Reaction score
1,857
Points
113
ehh........

Offensive lineman drafted under Spielman (round taken)

2012 Matt Kalil, 1
2013 Travis Boyd, 7
2014 David Yankey, 5
2015 TJ Clemmings, 4 Tyrus Thompson, 6 Austin Shepard, 7
2016 Willie Beavers, 4
2017 Pat Elfin, 3 Danny Isadora, 5
2018 Brian O'Neill, 2
2019 Garrett Bradbury, 1 Oli Udoh, 6
2020 Ezra Cleveland, 2 Blake Brandel, 6 Kyle Hinton 7

He has drafted an offensive lineman in the first round twice in nine years. However, his judgement on those picks appears suspect. In 2012 the two tackles taken after Kalil were Reilly Reiff and Mitchell Schwartz. We ended up signing Reiff to a hefty contract after Kalil fizzled out. Mitchell Schwartz had a string of 120 starts and was named to CBS Sports all decade team in 2019. Bradbury looks like a bust at this point.
If you look at the first 3 rounds, that’s 4 in 4 years. First three rounds should get you starters most of the time if you’re evaluating well.
8 more late rounders since 2015


I do think some of the Vikings issues on the o line was the decisions on drafting 2013-2017....basically one good o lineman drafted and he has injury problems. Vikings have been a patchwork o line since
 

UpAndUnder43

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
6,843
Reaction score
2,448
Points
113
I have raised and lowered the field goal nets a couple times as a grounds crew volunteer. A TCF stadium grounds worker told me this factoid and OSU played at TCF in 2014. Its true.
View attachment 11656
it isn’t. The gophers have to offer them. Maybe they borrowed them from the Vikings but it wasn’t a Spielman deal.
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
9,446
Reaction score
2,185
Points
113
They didn't end up in Tampa by chance. Arians saw them play in person and knew what they were capable of. Stole them both.

Not really sure how much the "stole" Winfield and TJ. Winfield went in the first part of the 2nd round. The three teams that took safeties ahead of him in round 2 might regret the decision some at this point, but it isn't like he fell way past where he should have. He was projected as a late 1st early 2nd guy and that is where he ended up. And I am pretty sure that at the time Tampa took him he was the #1 safety left on the board.

As for TJ, tough to say how his NFL career will go and if the Bucs really got a steal. There were a lot of WR taken in the 2020 draft and I have no clue how they all fared during the season. I am sure there were some busts and also some guys who didn't play due to injury. Remains to be seen what kind of pro career he is going to have.

Maybe in the case of TJ, seeing him live played potentially served as a bit of tie breaker between him and other WR on the board at that point. But so much goes into the draft and player evaluation that it is really tough to say how big a role one game can play in the overall process. TJ certainly helped his case that day with the huge game but no team in their right mind would invest millions in a player based on one performance.
 

TurfGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
372
Reaction score
294
Points
63
it isn’t. The gophers have to offer them. Maybe they borrowed them from the Vikings but it wasn’t a Spielman deal.
The gophers don't have another set of heated benches. Those systems cost a fortune. Teams either bring their own or rent them. Wisconsin brought their own at a game I worked. Do you have a source in the vikings front office/equipment mgmt? I know multiple TCF grounds and equipment people.
 

UpAndUnder43

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
6,843
Reaction score
2,448
Points
113
The gophers don't have another set of heated benches. Those systems cost a fortune. Teams either bring their own or rent them. Wisconsin brought their own at a game I worked. Do you have a source in the vikings front office/equipment mgmt? I know multiple TCF grounds and equipment people.

Yes. I am friends with the head of turf and field management for the Vikings. He told me all about this while he was at TCF with the team
 
Top Bottom