Who Killed George Floyd

WAGopher

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It specifically says "potentially lethal dose". For that statement to be "patently untrue", no one could have ever had a lethal overdose from 3 ng/Ml. Now, I don't know if that statement is true or false, so maybe you could clarify?
Unless the person is an infant or very small child, 3 ng/Ml is highly unlikely to be a lethal dose. Like I previously said, as an anesthesia, fentanyl is prescribed up to 20 ng/Ml. It’s also commonly prescribed in the 3 ng/Ml range as an analgesic after certain surgeries.
 

bga1

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Unless the person is an infant or very small child, 3 ng/Ml is highly unlikely to be a lethal dose. Like I previously said, as an anesthesia, fentanyl is prescribed up to 20 ng/Ml. It’s also commonly prescribed in the 3 ng/Ml range as an analgesic after certain surgeries.
Wouldn't it exacerbate the issue that it was found that he also had meth in his system? I would think so.
 

GoodasGold

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Wouldn't it exacerbate the issue that it was found that he also had meth in his system? I would think so.
The guy was ODing; so they sat on him until he died. I think that’s the excepted protocol is it not? What more could they have done for Goodness sakes?
 

Section2

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Unless the person is an infant or very small child, 3 ng/Ml is highly unlikely to be a lethal dose. Like I previously said, as an anesthesia, fentanyl is prescribed up to 20 ng/Ml. It’s also commonly prescribed in the 3 ng/Ml range as an analgesic after certain surgeries.
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. So what in your mind IS a potentially lethal dose for an adult to self administer?
 

BarnBurner

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Wouldn't it exacerbate the issue that it was found that he also had meth in his system? I would think so.
Details, details, details.....George was just hanging and banging........
 

WAGopher

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Wouldn't it exacerbate the issue that it was found that he also had meth in his system? I would think so.
I agree that Floyd was definitely under the influence of narcotics. However, the author of the article was misleading readers into thinking that drugs killed Floyd. The video evidence suggests the drugs influenced his behavior when interacting with the police officers. However, they weren’t the cause of death, which was asphyxiation by limiting blood flow to the brain by compressing the carotid artery.
 

WAGopher

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Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. So what in your mind IS a potentially lethal dose for an adult to self administer?
Fentanyl is one those drugs that people can build a tolerance for, making it difficult to determine a lethal dosage. The higher dose that an addict takes, could be detrimental to first time, or infrequent users.

When Prince died, his autopsy was reported to show a fentanyl level of 67.8 mg/l, which converts to 67,800 ng/ml. Prince likely became unconscious and passed the point of no return at a lower level, but upon death a body stops metabolizing substances, so he did live up to that point.
 

BarnBurner

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I agree that Floyd was definitely under the influence of narcotics. However, the author of the article was misleading readers into thinking that drugs killed Floyd. The video evidence suggests the drugs influenced his behavior when interacting with the police officers. However, they weren’t the cause of death, which was asphyxiation by limiting blood flow to the brain by compressing the carotid artery.
The drugs influenced his behavior????? You don’t say!!!!!

Step up St Pauli.
 

saintpaulguy

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Multiple illegal drugs, booze etc etc. Just another day............
I’m not really sure where you are going with this. Is this the ABC after school special where Scott Baio smokes a joint, and deservedly dies the next day?

Many people take illegal drugs, drink too much, and behave in ways you might not. They should be treated as human beings who have the same right to life as any other person. It’s like smokers getting lung cancer or obese people getting diabetes. We don’t refuse to treat them, even though their behaviors may have put them in the situation they find themselves.

The details do matter. I don’t think there is any dispute Floyd was under the influence. What matters here is to what degree did his encounter with the police contribute to his death? In a world of possibilities, that answer is possibly zero, but the mere fact he was intoxicated doesn’t make it so.

I certainly don’t want to have a police force with a blank check to open a can of whoop ass on everybody who leaves happy hour.
 

stocker08

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The guy was ODing; so they sat on him until he died. I think that’s the excepted protocol is it not? What more could they have done for Goodness sakes?
It was for his own good. They were trying to squeeze the drugs out of him.
 

stocker08

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I’m not really sure where you are going with this. Is this the ABC after school special where Scott Baio smokes a joint, and deservedly dies the next day?

Many people take illegal drugs, drink too much, and behave in ways you might not. They should be treated as human beings who have the same right to life as any other person. It’s like smokers getting lung cancer or obese people getting diabetes. We don’t refuse to treat them, even though their behaviors may have put them in the situation they find themselves.

The details do matter. I don’t think there is any dispute Floyd was under the influence. What matters here is to what degree did his encounter with the police contribute to his death? In a world of possibilities, that answer is possibly zero, but the mere fact he was intoxicated doesn’t make it so.

I certainly don’t want to have a police force with a blank check to open a can of whoop ass on everybody who leaves happy hour.
You are responding to a complete moron. Wasted time.
 

Spoofin

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I’m not really sure where you are going with this. Is this the ABC after school special where Scott Baio smokes a joint, and deservedly dies the next day?
Wait! What?
 

forever a gopher

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Honestly, the drugs are only a very small part of this. Let’s just assume the fentanyl/meth/alcohol amount/mixture wasn’t enough to kill him. The transcript paints a very different picture than what was reported. I didn’t watch the leaked body cam videos (no desire to watch somebody die). But him saying he can’t breathe before being knelt on, and asking to be laid on the ground instead of being in the police car are interesting. Based purely on the transcript, it would seem manslaughter is a more likely conviction than 2nd degree murder. That is also assuming they can prove that although Chauvin used an approved technique, that he did it for too long or in the wrong situation.

Will he be able to plea it down to manslaughter after this is entered into evidence of a trial? Maybe the video shows something more incriminating, or eyewitnesses have damning evidence. But at least from the transcript, it seems like he’s probably not guilty of 2nd degree. That’s not to say they can’t convict him of that. The jurors all know that if they find him innocent, or even if theres a hung jury, the city will burn worse than the first time. I do not envy those jurors in the least; that’s a huge weight to bear.
 

stocker08

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Honestly, the drugs are only a very small part of this. Let’s just assume the fentanyl/meth/alcohol amount/mixture wasn’t enough to kill him. The transcript paints a very different picture than what was reported. I didn’t watch the leaked body cam videos (no desire to watch somebody die). But him saying he can’t breathe before being knelt on, and asking to be laid on the ground instead of being in the police car are interesting. Based purely on the transcript, it would seem manslaughter is a more likely conviction than 2nd degree murder. That is also assuming they can prove that although Chauvin used an approved technique, that he did it for too long or in the wrong situation.

Will he be able to plea it down to manslaughter after this is entered into evidence of a trial? Maybe the video shows something more incriminating, or eyewitnesses have damning evidence. But at least from the transcript, it seems like he’s probably not guilty of 2nd degree. That’s not to say they can’t convict him of that. The jurors all know that if they find him innocent, or even if theres a hung jury, the city will burn worse than the first time. I do not envy those jurors in the least; that’s a huge weight to bear.
He asked to be laid on the ground? He said he was claustrophobic, which is why he didn't want to be in the cop car....and he was complaining about breathing. If that was the case (having trouble breathing), why would a knee on the back of the neck be a proper way to handle him? Not to mention that one of the other officers even asked Chauvin if he should be rolled on his side....which Chauvin responded with "he's staying put where we have him."

To argue that this changes much of anything....makes the argument that Floyd was going to die regardless.
 

forever a gopher

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He asked to be laid on the ground? He said he was claustrophobic, which is why he didn't want to be in the cop car....and he was complaining about breathing. If that was the case (having trouble breathing), why would a knee on the back of the neck be a proper way to handle him? Not to mention that one of the other officers even asked Chauvin if he should be rolled on his side....which Chauvin responded with "he's staying put where we have him."

To argue that this changes much of anything....makes the argument that Floyd was going to die regardless.
Did you read the transcript? Assuming this is a legit transcript, he was in the police car (or in process of being put in), was complaining of being claustrophobic, was having trouble breathing, and asked to lay on the ground.

Having not seen the video, I only am basing on what has already been reported and this transcript synopsis. I am not going to claim that he was going to die regardless. Even if he was OD’ing or having cardiac arrest, the police should have recognized he was severely compromised and done more to try and calm/help him before the ambulance arrived. I’m just skeptical you can convict 2nd degree murder. The details will shed light on whether this was gross negligence, manslaughter, or murder. At a minimum, this additional info makes it seem less like a slam-dunk to an assured conviction of the current charges.
 

stocker08

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Did you read the transcript? Assuming this is a legit transcript, he was in the police car (or in process of being put in), was complaining of being claustrophobic, was having trouble breathing, and asked to lay on the ground.

Having not seen the video, I only am basing on what has already been reported and this transcript synopsis. I am not going to claim that he was going to die regardless. Even if he was OD’ing or having cardiac arrest, the police should have recognized he was severely compromised and done more to try and calm/help him before the ambulance arrived. I’m just skeptical you can convict 2nd degree murder. The details will shed light on whether this was gross negligence, manslaughter, or murder. At a minimum, this additional info makes it seem less like a slam-dunk to an assured conviction of the current charges.
I guess we'll have to see when the full details come out. People will see the video and determine what kind of shape he was in. But my guess is that it is going to be hard to assume he was OD'ing or having cardiac arrest prior to having a knee to the back of his neck. Since he was complaining about claustrophobia....and difficulty with breathing....facedown on the ground with a knee on the back of the neck isn't the way to help. Especially when he stopped talking or moving.
 

forever a gopher

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I guess we'll have to see when the full details come out. People will see the video and determine what kind of shape he was in. But my guess is that it is going to be hard to assume he was OD'ing or having cardiac arrest prior to having a knee to the back of his neck. Since he was complaining about claustrophobia....and difficulty with breathing....facedown on the ground with a knee on the back of the neck isn't the way to help. Especially when he stopped talking or moving.
Agreed. It’s obvious Chauvin wasn’t helping at all. It’s certainly plausible that if Chauvin weren’t there, that Floyd would still be alive. However, that alone doesn’t constitute 2nd degree murder. There in lies the sticky wicket- if he were to be charged with a lesser degree, this would be pretty simple. It’s having to prove 2nd degree beyond a shadow of a doubt that may be difficult.
 

diehard

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The camera footage indicates that they seriously overcharged the cops making prosecution more complicated. Fairly early on I explained from the videos what happened and what didn't happen. Most of you learned nothing from it. BTW, for those of you who haven't been outside of Minnesota, a sticky wicket is an Australian term referring to a semen filled vagina. Not like the American cartoon version of the term.
 

Spoofin

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The camera footage indicates that they seriously overcharged the cops making prosecution more complicated. Fairly early on I explained from the videos what happened and what didn't happen. Most of you learned nothing from it. BTW, for those of you who haven't been outside of Minnesota, a sticky wicket is an Australian term referring to a semen filled vagina. Not like the American cartoon version of the term.
Sometimes I wonder if spending time on here is a waste, then I get reminded why it isn’t.
 

BarnBurner

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I’m not really sure where you are going with this. Is this the ABC after school special where Scott Baio smokes a joint, and deservedly dies the next day?

Many people take illegal drugs, drink too much, and behave in ways you might not. They should be treated as human beings who have the same right to life as any other person. It’s like smokers getting lung cancer or obese people getting diabetes. We don’t refuse to treat them, even though their behaviors may have put them in the situation they find themselves.

The details do matter. I don’t think there is any dispute Floyd was under the influence. What matters here is to what degree did his encounter with the police contribute to his death? In a world of possibilities, that answer is possibly zero, but the mere fact he was intoxicated doesn’t make it so.

I certainly don’t want to have a police force with a blank check to open a can of whoop ass on everybody who leaves happy hour.
You dont know and dont care to look at the influence the drugs and booze had on the entire situation. Before George ever made his way to that location. THOSE are the details. THOSE details are every bit as important and telling as any other.

As the other poster stated - correctly - the drugs influenced his behavior. Long before his encounter with the police. Long before he died. THAT was the point I made long ago and the point you continue to ignore. Details, details, details.
 

saintpaulguy

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You dont know and dont care to look at the influence the drugs and booze had on the entire situation. Before George ever made his way to that location. THOSE are the details. THOSE details are every bit as important and telling as any other.

As the other poster stated - correctly - the drugs influenced his behavior. Long before his encounter with the police. Long before he died. THAT was the point I made long ago and the point you continue to ignore. Details, details, details.
Did you read what you quoted? I don’t think anybody disputes he was under the influence of drugs. It says so in the post you quoted.
 

BarnBurner

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Did you read what you quoted? I don’t think anybody disputes he was under the influence of drugs. It says so in the post you quoted.
Sure did. You ignore the influence of drugs on his behavior. And have for the duration.

The influence of drugs. Illegal drugs. Booze. Decision making not so good by George. For the hundredth time - maybe he never would have been there if he wasn't under the influence?

ILLEGAL drugs.
 

Spoofin

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GF had issues and played a role in the event, but he didn’t have to / shouldn’t have died. Chauvin will still be convicted, IMO. I think he should be, and after all that has happened I just don’t see a jury acquitting him. I never felt the other cops would go down and this video supports that.

I think what this video does is shed light on the idea that this wasn’t some racially motivated act by a police force with “systematic racism”. That is what so many out there don’t want to see.
 
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