Walz Should Be Locking Things Up Right Now - COVID

GopherWeatherGuy

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Perhaps you're saying some democrats are anti-science. Clearly most of them are science based when making decisions. Likewise if you're a GOP, most of them do not believe in the Covid as to being a problem. Believe you have it reverse big time.
Much of COVIDs response has been anti-science, especially here in MN.

Please make sure you get your holiday shopping done with 1000s of other people at MOA. But don’t you dare have anyone from another household over for Thanksgiving.
 

Wally

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Typical anti-Science response from a democrat
Realistic. How are you going to monitor every business for infections and close them based on that, its really to out of control to contract trace. The only realistic way is to close businesses by class.

I would have preferred bars and restaurants to have been closed sooner and other things left open. Walz held out as long as he could and the result is a more drastic shutdown. I don't blame him considering the craziness from the right.
 

Bayfieldgopher

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Why stop there.
Want the cops defunded agree not to call them.
Eat fast food and become obese no healthcare for you.
Decide to drink and drive no live saving measures if you have an accident.
Become and alcoholic and need a new liver sorry can’t help you.

that would get some personal responsibility for people.
How about: Have unprotected sex, become pregnant and then have an abortion funded by tax payers.
 

Minnesota

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Has Newsom or his restaurant buds had their utilities turned off

🤔

Is Nancy still blaming her hairdresser for getting caught with her hand in the cookie jar

🤔
You have me confused as some sort of cheerleader for Gavin Newsome and Nancy Pelosi. I don’t worship politicians like you and your greasy, hooting MAGA ilk.
 

justthefacts

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Much of COVIDs response has been anti-science, especially here in MN.

Please make sure you get your holiday shopping done with 1000s of other people at MOA. But don’t you dare have anyone from another household over for Thanksgiving.
How exactly do you think Thanksgiving works?

 

Wally

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Much of COVIDs response has been anti-science, especially here in MN.

Please make sure you get your holiday shopping done with 1000s of other people at MOA. But don’t you dare have anyone from another household over for Thanksgiving.
They are trying to strike a balance moron. You are not supposed to go to a store if its to full.

Close things where people interact closely without masks and try to keep things open that allow full use while distancing and wearing masks, its pretty straightforward.

As far as Lifetime, maybe those big clubs could be open at way reduced capacity but then everyone bitches about why is Orange Therapy closed but Litetime doesn't have to close, ect ect. There is no perfect answer.
 

Wally

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How about: Have unprotected sex, become pregnant and then have an abortion funded by tax payers.
I am fine with it, I don't want more unwanted kids running around. There are to many people as it is, in my fantasies I would abort half the world.
 

stocker08

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I am fine with it, I don't want more unwanted kids running around. There are to many people as it is, in my fantasies I would abort half the world.
Just wait until the bible banging right comes in and sees this. You know who I'm talking about.....the science people who believe in creationism and magic.
 

Spoofin

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If its a ghost town then they are probably better off closed. I never said it was good, If I had the power I would have a stimulus to get businesses forced to close thru the pandemic.
I also would have closed bars a month or more ago after seeing some of the parking lots, again with a bailout. All this would have been possible with good leadership on the federal level, this surge is no surprise to anyone.
Your first paragraph is ignorant, at best.
Your second paragraph shoudl be directed at Walz, yet you direct it at the feds. You think Trump should have shut down bars nation-wide months ago? You are a sheep and simply have no clue of the nonsense you spew.
 

howeda7

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Just wait until the bible banging right comes in and sees this. You know who I'm talking about.....the science people who believe in creationism and magic.
They're too busy lying about voter fraud (as the best Christians do) to pay attention to abortion right now.
 

Wally

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You think Trump should have shut down bars nation-wide months ago? You are a sheep and simply have no clue of the nonsense you spew.
😆

I think the feds should have a bailout targeted at businesses that get shutdown, I am fine leaving it up to the states. Yes bars should have been shutdown in MN two months ago, maybe kids would be in school now, thats alot more important than bars.
 
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Ogee Oglethorpe

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Much of COVIDs response has been anti-science, especially here in MN.

Please make sure you get your holiday shopping done with 1000s of other people at MOA. But don’t you dare have anyone from another household over for Thanksgiving.
The Babylon Bee nails it again.>>>

1 Easy Tip For Abiding By Your Governor's Holiday Restrictions

Many state governors are implementing holiday bans and restrictions. It can be tough to navigate all the rules and regulations, especially when they're conflicting, constantly changing, and not even followed by the people who made them. So, we consulted with health experts and came up with this one easy tip to help you abide by your governor's holiday restrictions:


1. Don't. Resist tyrants and live your life.

(Please note for legal reasons this is satire. We would never advocate having friends and loved ones over, laughing together, sharing stories, eating great food, hugging your grandma, smoking cigars, playing backyard football, honoring traditions, showing gratefulness, or spreading cheer during the holidays during a pandemic. Definitely don't do any of those things.)

We hope this helps!
 

From the Parkinglot

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😆

I think the feds should have a bailout targeted at businesses that get shutdown, I am fine leaving it up to the states. Yes bars should have been shutdown in MN two months ago, maybe kids would be in school now, thats alot more important than bars.
When you say bailout what do you mean. Are you talking money for all expenses like rent, utilities, insurance, mortgage payments, payments on other debts like leasehold improvements. Will the money received be automatically forgiven or is it a loan that will have to be paid back at a low interest rate. Will you get the money from banks or will it be directly through the federal government. Or will it simply be another ppp program that will have its forgiveness amount based on payroll. I work at a bank and the ppp loan program is just a awful. No one knew the rules, no one knew how to apply, it’s difficult to get forgiveness of the loan still. Plus if you got an EIDL loan through the SBA directly that amount impacts your forgiveness amount. That is forcing banks to keep loans on the books at 1% for up to 5 years. While that doesn’t sound bad banks don’t make money at 1% internet rates. While I’m sure people don’t care about banks and view them as evil they do employee people and are very important in small towns.

the unfelt consequences of this will be all the commercial space that will be available in the next 12-18 months. Most of it is mortgaged so banks will get it back and be stuck with empty buildings on their books.
 

Wally

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When you say bailout what do you mean.
Well thats tricky. For employees give them enhanced unemployment, including for owners. For the businesses, cover rent/mortgage, debt service(at minimal level, make lenders take a small hit), utilities and a small percentage tacked on for miscellaneous expenses.

I am sure I am missing something but thats a quick outline. Maybe something simpler could be come up with, I am not an expert.
 

Wally

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the unfelt consequences of this will be all the commercial space that will be available in the next 12-18 months. Most of it is mortgaged so banks will get it back and be stuck with empty buildings on their books.
Yes, the fallout from this hasn't even begun yet. Its going to be interesting. It could be alot worse than people think.
 
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short ornery norwegian

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Much of COVIDs response has been anti-science, especially here in MN.

Please make sure you get your holiday shopping done with 1000s of other people at MOA. But don’t you dare have anyone from another household over for Thanksgiving.
virtually every doctor and scientist agrees on this point - covid is spread by sustained close contact.

At the MOA, are you spending 15 or 20 minutes in a face-to-face interaction within 6 feet with a sales clerk or check-out person? Unless it's an unusual case, most of those transactions are relatively short. and most people are wearing masks. (but, at my local convenience store, I do see people not wearing masks on a regular basis. It may be only a handful of customers, but they are out there.)

but at that Thanksgiving dinner, you could very easily spend much longer periods of time in close face-to-face contact.

That is why retail stores get to stay open. Because contact tracing has not identified retail as a significant source of infection.

Unless virtually every doctor is wrong, the house parties, wedding dances, and yes, people hanging out in bars and restaurants are some of the main drivers of the community spread.

and - with rare exceptions, the people at MOA are generally sober. The people at parties, not so much. Booze lowers inhibitions. lower inhibitions lead to bad decisions.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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virtually every doctor and scientist agrees on this point - covid is spread by sustained close contact.

At the MOA, are you spending 15 or 20 minutes in a face-to-face interaction within 6 feet with a sales clerk or check-out person? Unless it's an unusual case, most of those transactions are relatively short. and most people are wearing masks. (but, at my local convenience store, I do see people not wearing masks on a regular basis. It may be only a handful of customers, but they are out there.)

but at that Thanksgiving dinner, you could very easily spend much longer periods of time in close face-to-face contact.

That is why retail stores get to stay open. Because contact tracing has not identified retail as a significant source of infection.

Unless virtually every doctor is wrong, the house parties, wedding dances, and yes, people hanging out in bars and restaurants are some of the main drivers of the community spread.

and - with rare exceptions, the people at MOA are generally sober. The people at parties, not so much. Booze lowers inhibitions. lower inhibitions lead to bad decisions.
You may not interact with one person for 15 minutes, but at MOA you’re going to be indoors with 1000s of people in hallways, stores, etc for long periods of time, breathing the same air, that’s ok now?

If that’s ok, why can’t we have at least 25%-50% at stadiums? I’m not interacting with people I don’t know there for 15 minutes.

I don’t interact with people at gyms for 15 minutes either, why are those closed? Does MOA help strengthen your immune system and help fight coronavirus like a gym does?
 
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Blizzard

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virtually every doctor and scientist agrees on this point - covid is spread by sustained close contact.
I think you should check with Osterholmslice. Of course it's close contact, but it's the air we share. You can't be indoors in large gatherings of people at the mall and not share an awful lot of the same air. It is some pretty serious nonsense to think otherwise.
 

justthefacts

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The Babylon Bee nails it again.>>>

1 Easy Tip For Abiding By Your Governor's Holiday Restrictions

Many state governors are implementing holiday bans and restrictions. It can be tough to navigate all the rules and regulations, especially when they're conflicting, constantly changing, and not even followed by the people who made them. So, we consulted with health experts and came up with this one easy tip to help you abide by your governor's holiday restrictions:


1. Don't. Resist tyrants and live your life.

(Please note for legal reasons this is satire. We would never advocate having friends and loved ones over, laughing together, sharing stories, eating great food, hugging your grandma, smoking cigars, playing backyard football, honoring traditions, showing gratefulness, or spreading cheer during the holidays during a pandemic. Definitely don't do any of those things.)

We hope this helps!
This is so unbelievably dumb. It gets everything wrong. It misrepresents what Walz said and encourages people to get their loved ones sick just to own the libs.





 

Gold Vision

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virtually every doctor and scientist agrees on this point - covid is spread by sustained close contact.

At the MOA, are you spending 15 or 20 minutes in a face-to-face interaction within 6 feet with a sales clerk or check-out person? Unless it's an unusual case, most of those transactions are relatively short. and most people are wearing masks. (but, at my local convenience store, I do see people not wearing masks on a regular basis. It may be only a handful of customers, but they are out there.)

but at that Thanksgiving dinner, you could very easily spend much longer periods of time in close face-to-face contact.

That is why retail stores get to stay open. Because contact tracing has not identified retail as a significant source of infection.

Unless virtually every doctor is wrong, the house parties, wedding dances, and yes, people hanging out in bars and restaurants are some of the main drivers of the community spread.

and - with rare exceptions, the people at MOA are generally sober. The people at parties, not so much. Booze lowers inhibitions. lower inhibitions lead to bad decisions.
How in the world do you effectively contact trace in a retail setting like a mall, grocery store or a Home Depot? 1000’s of people walk through those doors daily.
What confuses me about the data that Walz gave was how the contact traced confirmed cases were a minuscule fraction of total cases. They cite that the data should be used as a sample reflecting the general positivity patterns of the population.
Restaurants have reservations assigned seating and payment logs to track patrons. Gyms have secured access with card swipe data to know exactly who was in and at what times. It is far easier to contact trace in those settings and confirm where the virus was contracted.
I don’t have the answers, but singling out these businesses seems short sighted when so much is still open.
Why do private schools not face the same pressure to close as the public schools in the exact same communities. This week our superintendent cited good numbers in the school itself, but needed to close in person learning due to community spread and pressure from the MDH. There are multiple private schools in the area carrying on with business as usual.
I don’t have the answers, but how is this all equitable, reasonable and based on science?
 

justthefacts

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How in the world do you effectively contact trace in a retail setting like a mall, grocery store or a Home Depot? 1000’s of people walk through those doors daily.
What confuses me about the data that Walz gave was how the contact traced confirmed cases were a minuscule fraction of total cases. They cite that the data should be used as a sample reflecting the general positivity patterns of the population.
Restaurants have reservations assigned seating and payment logs to track patrons. Gyms have secured access with card swipe data to know exactly who was in and at what times. It is far easier to contact trace in those settings and confirm where the virus was contracted.
I don’t have the answers, but singling out these businesses seems short sighted when so much is still open.
Why do private schools not face the same pressure to close as the public schools in the exact same communities. This week our superintendent cited good numbers in the school itself, but needed to close in person learning due to community spread and pressure from the MDH. There are multiple private schools in the area carrying on with business as usual.
I don’t have the answers, but how is this all equitable, reasonable and based on science?
It's not that hard.

"So, person A who has COVID, where all did you go in the last 72 hours?" "I went to work at the bank, to McDonald's, to Scheel's, and to church"

"So person B who has COVID, were all did you go in the last 72 hours?" "I went to work at Jiffy Lube, to Wendy's, to a park, and to Scheel's."
 

Gold Vision

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It's not that hard.

"So, person A who has COVID, where all did you go in the last 72 hours?" "I went to work at the bank, to McDonald's, to Scheel's, and to church"

"So person B who has COVID, were all did you go in the last 72 hours?" "I went to work at Jiffy Lube, to Wendy's, to a park, and to Scheel's."
Exactly my point.
So if person A says they were at Home Depot from 12-1 on Saturday. Where do they go from there? The tracing stops outside of some potential employee interactions.

If person B says they were at Life Time, they have information showing exactly who was in the club, their temperature at arrival and what classes they attended. A clear path to continue the tracing.

Which scenario is more likely to come up with a confirmed instance of community spread?

The vast majority of reported cases are listed as either unknown or community unknown.
 

RahSkiUMah

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Exactly my point.
So if person A says they were at Home Depot from 12-1 on Saturday. Where do they go from there? The tracing stops outside of some potential employee interactions.

If person B says they were at Life Time, they have information showing exactly who was in the club, their temperature at arrival and what classes they attended. A clear path to continue the tracing.

Which scenario is more likely to come up with a confirmed instance of community spread?

The vast majority of reported cases are listed as either unknown or community unknown.
So you and GWG are arguing we should be shutting down retail? If we have evidence that can trace to one location, but we don’t have evidence for the other location, even if we have a hunch it’s spread there, we should close them both?

Maybe we go with what the evidence shows and then update if the evidence changes. That’s how science works even though GWG says it’s all anti-science (like he’s the authority on the issue 😂).
 

justthefacts

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So you and GWG are arguing we should be shutting down retail? If we have evidence that can trace to one location, but we don’t have evidence for the other location, even if we have a hunch it’s spread there, we should close them both?

Maybe we go with what the evidence shows and then update if the evidence changes. That’s how science works even though GWG says it’s all anti-science (like he’s the authority on the issue 😂).
The thing is, it's all just logical. Where are you more likely to spread it: a big place you walk through with a mask on, never stopping for more than a couple of minutes? Or a small place where you sit for 90 minutes with no mask on, constantly talking and touching your mouth?
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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So you and GWG are arguing we should be shutting down retail? If we have evidence that can trace to one location, but we don’t have evidence for the other location, even if we have a hunch it’s spread there, we should close them both?

Maybe we go with what the evidence shows and then update if the evidence changes. That’s how science works even though GWG says it’s all anti-science (like he’s the authority on the issue 😂).
Science is a process that works by running experiments using control groups, where does that process exist in a voluntary survey?

I'll ask again, where is the logic here?

You may not interact with one person for 15 minutes, but at MOA you’re going to be indoors with 1000s of people in hallways, stores, etc for long periods of time, breathing the same air, that’s ok now? And let's not forget that MOA has no central heating system that filters the air, it relies on solar, lights, and body heat.

If that’s ok, why can’t we have at least 25%-50% at stadiums? I’m not interacting with people I don’t know there for 15 minutes.

I don’t interact with people at gyms for 15 minutes either, why are those closed? Does MOA help strengthen your immune system and help fight coronavirus like a gym does?
 

Gold Vision

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So you and GWG are arguing we should be shutting down retail? If we have evidence that can trace to one location, but we don’t have evidence for the other location, even if we have a hunch it’s spread there, we should close them both?

Maybe we go with what the evidence shows and then update if the evidence changes. That’s how science works even though GWG says it’s all anti-science (like he’s the authority on the issue 😂).
I can’t speak for GWG, especially since I disagree with almost everything he says.

But yes, if your goal is to slow the spread through mandated shutdowns, have some balls and shut down non-essential retail and construction sites for a month too. I don’t see the particular business restrictions chosen putting a dent in the current trajectory.

Contract tracing is a very valuable mitigation measure. However, relying on the statistically insignificant data (The data cited as reasoning for the shutdown of restaurants, bars, youth sports and gyms accounts for 1.8% of the total cases!) to use the “scalpel” approach while ignoring some of the biggest issues causing the spread is not science.

If I missed the release of the science that went behind those numbers, please forward them to me. I failed as I searched for more explanation last night and this morning.
 

jamiche

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I think you should check with Osterholmslice. Of course it's close contact, but it's the air we share. You can't be indoors in large gatherings of people at the mall and not share an awful lot of the same air. It is some pretty serious nonsense to think otherwise.
It depends entirely on the quality of the ventilation system, air exchanges and hepa filters.
 

RahSkiUMah

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Science is a process that works by running experiments using control groups, where does that process exist in a voluntary survey?

I'll ask again, where is the logic here?

You may not interact with one person for 15 minutes, but at MOA you’re going to be indoors with 1000s of people in hallways, stores, etc for long periods of time, breathing the same air, that’s ok now? And let's not forget that MOA has no central heating system that filters the air, it relies on solar, lights, and body heat.

If that’s ok, why can’t we have at least 25%-50% at stadiums? I’m not interacting with people I don’t know there for 15 minutes.

I don’t interact with people at gyms for 15 minutes either, why are those closed? Does MOA help strengthen your immune system and help fight coronavirus like a gym does?
Science often involves voluntary surveys and patient reported outcomes. Observational data and case series can be crucial for advancing science. Is this high quality, indisputable evidence? NO.

I personally think we could be allowing stadiums at low capacities (if done properly), especially open air ones. I think we're not because teams are happy with their TV money right now and not clamoring for it... Gyms should probably be considered lower risk than bars too.

In the absence of HARD science, which we'll never get in a rapidly evolving situation, we need to quantify risk to the best of our ability and then make decisions. It seems like we're all in agreement a packed, unmasked bar is the highest risk scenario - so start there. If it's not enough then we'll have to have a conversation about further restrictions in the future.
 

golf

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The rochester paper just ran an article where they interviewed bar/restaurant owners. I was kind of surprised by the level of frustration those owners displayed. They see retail stores with full parking lots this time of year and cant help feeling singled out and picked on with the covid restrictions. Is the evidence clear that partial capacity restaurants/bars are more of a threat to community spread than packed retail stores?
 
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