Walz is a Fraud on Covid LockDown

gopher7

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Here is a great writeup on the requirements of some high school athletes wearing masks.

"Rather than forming rules based in science, the Department of Health has chosen rules based on public perception. Perception of safety is important, but this is not what we ask of our public health experts. Our rightful expectation is that they will make decisions rooted in science and data. "

 

JimmyJamesMD

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Here is a great writeup on the requirements of some high school athletes wearing masks.

"Rather than forming rules based in science, the Department of Health has chosen rules based on public perception. Perception of safety is important, but this is not what we ask of our public health experts. Our rightful expectation is that they will make decisions rooted in science and data. "

They prefer made up data and psuedo science
 

short ornery norwegian

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Walz press conference at 2pm. According to media reports, here are some of the details:

Details of the @GovTimWalz announcements.

1. Restaurants re-open at 50% capacity not to exceed 150
2. 6 people per table / 6 ft
3. Bar seating open parties of 2
4. Gyms 25 percent 9 foot distancing - classes of not more than 25 ppl
5 Pools open at 25 %

Spectators allowed at sports following capacity of 25 percent up to 250 outdoor / 150 indoor.
Movies and indoor events at INDOOR guidelines
 

MplsGopher

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Here is a great writeup on the requirements of some high school athletes wearing masks.

"Rather than forming rules based in science, the Department of Health has chosen rules based on public perception. Perception of safety is important, but this is not what we ask of our public health experts. Our rightful expectation is that they will make decisions rooted in science and data. "

If he doesn't have a PhD, then he isn't a scientist, and has no more right to claim he is one than a scientist has a right to claim he is a medical doctor.

Leave science to actual scientists, Arthur. Stick to cutting people open and charging them an arm and a leg to do so.
 

Spoofin

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Well make believe Doctor. Waltz has been looking to the experts as to advice unlike you who have been swimming around in the swamp.
"Experts" don't agree on this stuff - so how is Walz deciding which "experts" to take advice from? Any thoughts on why he doesn't share any of the "science and data" he references in his decisions?

FTR - I do think that Walz is asking experts. Carefully selected and chosen experts.
 

Spoofin

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Restaurants OK again..... until the witching hour. Then not so safe.
 

Wally

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"Experts" don't agree on this stuff - so how is Walz deciding which "experts" to take advice from? Any thoughts on why he doesn't share any of the "science and data" he references in his decisions?

FTR - I do think that Walz is asking experts. Carefully selected and chosen experts.
He is doing what we elected him to do, make the call.

I was glad he did that mini shutdown. Cases were poping up everywhere in my life the week before. Kids school, kids friend, my hockey team. It was a relief.
 

From the Parkinglot

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Why did more infections occur at bars during late-night hours? Random?
Then bars should have to close before 2:00am all the time. I’m sure if you look at police statistics more bar fight occur between 10:00pm - 2:00am than form open to 10:00pm.
 

Spoofin

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Yea, As people get more intoxicated they usually follow the rules and act in a safe manner.
I've seen this battle cry before - justification for a policy put in place with no data to support it. Yes, I know we were all told it was based on "data and science" - but I must have missed when it was released. Why not 9pm? Maybe we should put a drink limit on folks instead?

I haven't researched lately, but remember reading about other places that have done this w/o any clear data. Here is a story from the UK I found from a few months ago. As I have said, I don't stay out past 10pm --- way too old for that --- so this doesn't affect me personally. I am, however, really sick of policies that affect people's lives and livlihoods being made on 'gut feel' in the name of "data and science".

Without clear statistics to support the policy, it appears to have been plucked out of thin air, like so many others
 

MplsGopher

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They never provided any verified proof of that.
Regardless if it can even be "proven" or not, what would they possibly have to gain by setting an arbitrary 10pm cutoff if they didn't believe it was true that more infections occurred during late night?
 

MplsGopher

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Then bars should have to close before 2:00am all the time. I’m sure if you look at police statistics more bar fight occur between 10:00pm - 2:00am than form open to 10:00pm.
How many people walk into a bar with no intention of starting a fight, but then start a fight, and then leave without even realizing that they started a fight?

That's the analogy to someone who doesn't know they are contagious going to a bar and spreading the disease.
 

Wally

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I've seen this battle cry before - justification for a policy put in place with no data to support it. Yes, I know we were all told it was based on "data and science" - but I must have missed when it was released. Why not 9pm? Maybe we should put a drink limit on folks instead?

I haven't researched lately, but remember reading about other places that have done this w/o any clear data. Here is a story from the UK I found from a few months ago. As I have said, I don't stay out past 10pm --- way too old for that --- so this doesn't affect me personally. I am, however, really sick of policies that affect people's lives and livlihoods being made on 'gut feel' in the name of "data and science".

Without clear statistics to support the policy, it appears to have been plucked out of thin air, like so many others
Spoof doesn't believe in common sense.

It's pretty hilarious when a righty denies common sense.
 
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MplsGopher

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I don't really care that much about the witching hour aspect, but you are correct. No data to support any of it.
What would they have to gain by setting an arbitrary 10pm cutoff, if there was nothing to support it?
 

Spoofin

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Spoof doesn't believe in common sense.

It's pretty hilarious when a righty denies common sense.
It's "common sense" that COVID spreads faster after 10pm in restaurants than before 10pm? Really? How much faster?
 

balds

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What would they have to gain by setting an arbitrary 10pm cutoff, if there was nothing to support it?
Cosmetic. to have the ability to say "we're doing something". Much like making kids wear masks when they play basketball and hockey.

The 10:00 p.m. closure makes sense to me. Undoubtedly, bar patrons get closer, louder and dumber the longer the night goes on. But he literally said "our data shows us"this. Then SHOW US THE DATA. This was the umpteenth time he's talked about their data without providing it. I would think he'd want to provide their data to support his measures. But then again, he has complete impunity with zero chance of having to deal with the legislature or be questioned at all by the press, so why would he bother with providing it?
 

From the Parkinglot

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How many people walk into a bar with no intention of starting a fight, but then start a fight, and then leave without even realizing that they started a fight?

That's the analogy to someone who doesn't know they are contagious going to a bar and spreading the disease.
That may be true about fights but what about drunk drivers crashing. How many people walk into the bar not intending to drive home drunk. Then leave the bar driving home drunk not realizing they are drunk.
I have seen plenty of people drunk at a bar at 2:00pm in my life. The old adage is you can’t drink all day if you don’t start in the morning.
 

Wally

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It's "common sense" that COVID spreads faster after 10pm in restaurants than before 10pm? Really? How much faster?
If people are drinking, it's common sense that the later and longer they drink the more reckless they will be. How many people go out to eat after 10pm? They go out to drink.
 

Spoofin

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If people are drinking, it's common sense that the later and longer they drink the more reckless they will be. How many people go out to eat after 10pm? They go out to drink.
Then why not make it 8pm or ban drinking all together? Maybe we shouldn’t allow house guests after 10pm either?
Again, you are simply giving your opinion. Fine for you, but you aren’t setting policy that affects the livelihood of millions. Walz is - and if he is using any “data and science” to do it then he is keeping it to himself.
 

Wally

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Well I think he is using common sense. While there have been mistakes overall he is doing ok.

I want people to be able to do whatever they want usually, way more than most people want. Its a unique situation and I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt.

If people fought for real freedom I might care and join in but I have resigned myself to being oppressed and I have to much to lose resisting it.
 

MplsGopher

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Cosmetic. to have the ability to say "we're doing something". Much like making kids wear masks when they play basketball and hockey.
I could buy this if the choice was between no restrictions on restaurants at all and just making them switch to take-out only at 10pm.

But they are limiting seating capacity, the whole day, regardless. So that is doing something, already.

But he literally said "our data shows us"this. Then SHOW US THE DATA.
Why are you convinced that the data is not available? I have no idea if it is.

Also, while it would be tough to defend, they may have reasons for wanting to withhold data. Perhaps because it might still be easy to infer things about specific patients?
 

MplsGopher

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Then leave the bar driving home drunk not realizing they are drunk.
I agree with you that this is a better example, but I disagree that it is equivalent.

People can literally feel nothing, and spread the virus.

Even for the hardest drinkers, who can claim to feel completely normal after drinking several drinks, they still know that they put it to their lips. So they would still know that the alcohol is in them, impairing them.
 
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