Walz is a Fraud on Covid LockDown

JimmyJamesMD

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Sunbelt states were open and didn't spike until the weather changed. WI was open since the WI Supreme Court decision in May and only spiked in the fall. MN cases and deaths fell this spring/summer, after we "opened up". NY and CA have been locked down and it doesn't appear that it's been effective.
Seasonal........
 

cncmin

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Cali was doing really really good until they loosened up the restrictions.
I wouldn't say "really really good" but yes, they were doing far better until they greatly loosened the restrictions. Same thing could be said about almost everywhere else in this country as well.
 

cncmin

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No there’s not, but let’s see your data that ‘proves’ this. How’s California doing right now after having some of the toughest restrictions for the longest period of time?

There is a huge correlation between weather and an increase in cases, just like every other coronavirus.
You are seeing some restrictions, and tightening restrictions after a giant mess, and implying those are the same (or stronger) as the strong March lockdowns. Things are far more open now than they were then.
 

cncmin

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Sunbelt states were open and didn't spike until the weather changed. WI was open since the WI Supreme Court decision in May and only spiked in the fall. MN cases and deaths fell this spring/summer, after we "opened up". NY and CA have been locked down and it doesn't appear that it's been effective.
It just so happens that the weather changed at about the same time we all opened up nearly everything. Human-host viruses do not spread very efficiently when people do not gather with other people. That's the easiest part of the equation to understand, but by far the most difficult to enforce.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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You are seeing some restrictions, and tightening restrictions after a giant mess, and implying those are the same (or stronger) as the strong March lockdowns. Things are far more open now than they were then.
And there were very few issues until the weather cooled off in the north, or got hot in the south.
 

cncmin

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And there were very few issues until the weather cooled off in the north, or got hot in the south.
Luckily, global warming also started slowing down in the U.S. this fall, as well. I mean, it got cooler, right?

I aged several months as the weather got colder. Therefore, my age must be a direct function of how cold it gets outside. Fortunately, I will get younger again this spring. I can't wait!
 

JimmyJamesMD

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Luckily, global warming also started slowing down in the U.S. this fall, as well. I mean, it got cooler, right?

I aged several months as the weather got colder. Therefore, my age must be a direct function of how cold it gets outside. Fortunately, I will get younger again this spring. I can't wait!
Cnc strikes again!
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Luckily, global warming also started slowing down in the U.S. this fall, as well. I mean, it got cooler, right?

I aged several months as the weather got colder. Therefore, my age must be a direct function of how cold it gets outside. Fortunately, I will get younger again this spring. I can't wait!
Haha as usual you get owned and try to change the subject.
 

Spoofin

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This isn't a single variable equation. No one has stopped COVID. It is a virus that won't be stopped until immunity is reached (by vaccine or infection). You can delay the spread in different ways, but each measure to do that has trade-offs. Suggesting we should do nothing is dumb, but no dumber than ignoring those trade-offs.
 

cncmin

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What I said is backed by data. What you said is not. Seems like that makes you the clueless one, as always.
And there were very few issues until the weather cooled off in the north, or got hot in the south.

It's all just weather-related? Good to know! F those vaccines, totally unnecessary! Everything will be gone when it warms up in May 2020! It will magically disappear by Easter!
 

Wally

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This isn't a single variable equation. No one has stopped COVID. It is a virus that won't be stopped until immunity is reached (by vaccine or infection). You can delay the spread in different ways, but each measure to do that has trade-offs. Suggesting we should do nothing is dumb, but no dumber than ignoring those trade-offs.
Australia and New Zealand have basically stopped it compared to the US. Australia has 35 deaths per million people, the US has 967 deaths per million people.

I guess thats no difference??????
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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And there were very few issues until the weather cooled off in the north, or got hot in the south.

It's all just weather-related? Good to know! F those vaccines, totally unnecessary! Everything will be gone when it warms up in May 2020! It will magically disappear by Easter!
All coronaviruses are seasonal, including this one.

I am pro vaccine.
 

cncmin

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All coronaviruses are seasonal, including this one.

I am pro vaccine.
Effectively seasonal, yes. There is science behind all of that. I wish you wouldn't ignore it. Good to hear you are pro vaccine, but why? This should all just go away when it warms up, just like it did last year. Not?
 

Spoofin

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Australia and New Zealand have basically stopped it compared to the US. Australia has 35 deaths per million people, the US has 967 deaths per million people.

I guess thats no difference??????
I would say Australia only reinforces what I said. They "stopped" it once by taking extreme measures and since there was no immunity it came back and they had to take extreme measures another time to "stop" it. If they don't get immunity now (infection or vaccine) you can be sure it will come back another time. That all sounds a lot more like delaying than stopping. As I said, you can delay it - but with trade-offs. IIRC, Austrailia is in its worst economic condition ever - trade-offs. I'll stand by my statement.... suggesting we should do nothing is dumb, but no dumber than ignoring those trade-offs.
 

cncmin

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I would say Australia only reinforces what I said. They "stopped" it once by taking extreme measures and since there was no immunity it came back and they had to take extreme measures another time to "stop" it. If they don't get immunity now (infection or vaccine) you can be sure it will come back another time. That all sounds a lot more like delaying than stopping. As I said, you can delay it - but with trade-offs. IIRC, Austrailia is in its worst economic condition ever - trade-offs. I'll stand by my statement.... suggesting we should do nothing is dumb, but no dumber than ignoring those trade-offs.
I think a delay-as-much-as-practical-until-we-get-vaccinated approach is a solid one. The opposite alternative (natural herd immunity) is the death of millions.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Effectively seasonal, yes. There is science behind all of that. I wish you wouldn't ignore it. Good to hear you are pro vaccine, but why? This should all just go away when it warms up, just like it did last year. Not?
I'm not ignoring the Science, you are. You are a Science denier.
 

Spoofin

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I think a delay-as-much-as-practical-until-we-get-vaccinated approach is a solid one. The opposite alternative (natural herd immunity) is the death of millions.
And that is a valid opinion that can be defended. I also think the opinion asking to moderate the steps to avoid unnecessarily severe trade-offs is valid and can be defended. I'm not a "lock everything down" or a "open everything up" guy --- I wish we would use actual data and science to make 'surgical' decisions that include analyzing those trade-offs.
 

Wally

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I would say Australia only reinforces what I said. They "stopped" it once by taking extreme measures and since there was no immunity it came back and they had to take extreme measures another time to "stop" it. If they don't get immunity now (infection or vaccine) you can be sure it will come back another time. That all sounds a lot more like delaying than stopping. As I said, you can delay it - but with trade-offs. IIRC, Austrailia is in its worst economic condition ever - trade-offs. I'll stand by my statement.... suggesting we should do nothing is dumb, but no dumber than ignoring those trade-offs.
Good thing the vaccine is here....

Is their economy a lot worse off than ours?
China has been putting the screws to them with tariffs ect.
 

Plausible Deniability

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Cnc strikes again!
Always love the stocker method of debate; endurance is infinitely more critical than substance. If I just keep banging away and banging away, eventually the other party will wear out and.... I WIN! It's foolproof, and in your own mind, it means winning every argument. Brilliant, and yet 4-yr old-ish at the same time.
 

howeda7

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Why doesn’t the governor close the boarders so people can’t go to Hudson for dinner. How is it any different eating in Minnesota than it is in Wisconsin. The virus is still there and you can bring it back to Minnesota with you.

the argument is if you go to a restaurant you are putting people in danger of getting the virus that you interact with. Is that not the case if you eat in Wisconsin or the Dakota’s or iowa?
In theory maybe he should. But the # of people who are going out of state to dine is tiny and confined to one or two towns. Closing the borders of the entire state to prevent that would be silly. Nice straw man though.
 

MplsGopher

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I wouldn't say "really really good" but yes, they were doing far better until they greatly loosened the restrictions. Same thing could be said about almost everywhere else in this country as well.
Guaranteed right now in the state of CA, since their restrictions went into place, far fewer people are being infected per day than was happening before they went into effect.

It’s unfortunate that we can’t truly measure that. Can only measure the lagging indicator of positive, voluntary tests, which isn’t anywhere close to an accurate snapshot of the whole population.
 

From the Parkinglot

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In theory maybe he should. But the # of people who are going out of state to dine is tiny and confined to one or two towns. Closing the borders of the entire state to prevent that would be silly. Nice straw man though.
Like the towns of Minneapolis and St. Paul. Those are large towns. It’s not a straw man argument. It’s a serious question if you truly want to take all risk out of life.
 

short ornery norwegian

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For the people who keep insisting this is unconstitutional:

The governor has the authority to issue written statements of orders, called Executive Orders, as well as Emergency Executive Orders. The governor's authority is specified in the Constitution of the State of Minnesota, Article V, and in Minnesota Statutes 4.035. Emergency Executive Orders, for protection from an imminent threat to health and safety, become effective immediately, are filed with the secretary of state, and published in the State Register as soon as possible after they are issued.

So, if you don't like it, you will need a constitutional amendment to change it. Until then, an Emergency Executive Order is constitutional and has the force of law.
 

howeda7

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Like the towns of Minneapolis and St. Paul. Those are large towns. It’s not a straw man argument. It’s a serious question if you truly want to take all risk out of life.
Who said they wanted to "take all risk out of life"?
 
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