VP Biden’s quid pro quo threat to Ukraine...

Section2

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False equivalencies aren't beyond rich at all. Don Jr has certainly benefited from his last name, but he was doing international hotel business long before his Dad ever ran for office. That's clearly not the case with Hunter Biden, who had no background in the gas industry, or Ukraine prior to his Dad's, the VP's meeting with Burisma.

I've never heard anyone insinuate that Rand Paul benefited financially from his Dad's name, so that's a new one to me. Please cite the incident you're referencing. From what I can tell, he's earned his money fair & square?

As for Rita Romney, I can't even find a reference for her, but if she's Mitt's daughter I would expect she's dirty. I doubt it's a coincidence that Mitt's chief aide & former CIA exec Cofer Black, also happened to be on the BOD at Bursima. Investigate them too, by all means.
Howie hating on Rand Paul is so rich. Certifiable hack and loon.


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bga1

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False equivalencies aren't beyond rich at all. Don Jr has certainly benefited from his last name, but he was doing international hotel business long before his Dad ever ran for office. That's clearly not the case with Hunter Biden, who had no background in the gas industry, or Ukraine prior to his Dad's, the VP's meeting with Burisma.

I've never heard anyone insinuate that Rand Paul benefited financially from his Dad's name, so that's a new one to me. Please cite the incident you're referencing. From what I can tell, he's earned his money fair & square?

As for Rita Romney, I can't even find a reference for her, but if she's Mitt's daughter I would expect she's dirty. I doubt it's a coincidence that Mitt's chief aide & former CIA exec Cofer Black, also happened to be on the BOD at Bursima. Investigate them too, by all means.
The leftist twitter talking point of the day is the Ronna McDaniel got her job as head of RNC because of her dad. Kind of funny since the leader of the RNC, President DJT cannot stand Mitt. But that's what they are going with.
 

KillerGopherFan

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The outrage from Donald Trump Jr., Rita Romney, and Rand Paul about Hunter Biden using his family name to get ahead is beyond rich.
Did they get a board position with a corrupt foreign company that paid them 10-15 times the average board member salary for US companies in an industry that they had no experience or expertise?
 

bga1

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- As you point out, it's a conflict of interests at the very least & worthy of investigation.

- There's also the issue of Joe Biden promising $1B in US loans to Ukrainian gas companies, that coincided with Hunter's appointment to the Burisma BOD. Was that money/policy in exchange for his son's position? I suspect it was not. I suspect it was a throw-in, to the real deal.

- The real issue imo, was Joe Biden specifically meeting with Burisma, who was under multiple criminal investigations at the time, had their UK bank accounts frozen and their founder on the US travel ban list. Why would any legitimate VP meet with that company, or that owner? Was the point of this deal for Joe Biden to get the investigations into Burisma squashed & Burisma's founder off the travel ban list?

- Also worth consideration: Was anyone at Burisma donating to the Clinton Foundation?
There is an amazing story emerging out of Ukraine. Small wonder that Trump wanted Ukraine to cooperate in the investigation that will resolve much that remains of the 2016 election interference investigation. While the Mueller investigation was untouchable, you would be charged with obstruction if you uttered criticism of it.... the part of the interference investigation that will find a host of Dems and swampers...Well THAT investigation cannot be spoken of and if the President wants to get to the bottom of that one he should be IMPEACHED!

In the Ukraine mess are the Clintons -8.6 from one Oligarch and 10 million overall from Ukrainian interests- The Bidens 3 million to Hunter- Cofer Black,(Burisma) connected to Mitt Romney, and John Kerry's 2004 senior advisor Devin Archer. Then the connection where Chalupa of the DNC got the Ukraines to investigate Manafort just as ...ho hum...Manafort is about to enter the Trump orbit to work for free!

Nothing to see there! :)

It was a big deal that Biden stopped Shokin from investigating Burisma and his son...but it was actually a lot bigger deal that Biden was also blocking Shokin from looking into Ukrainian collusion with the Hillary Clinton campaign. That's what Guiliani was really after. He just ran into the Biden thing in the process.

If we only had an honest media. There are a few. Not near enough. The dishonest MSM drowns out the honest ones like Andy McCarthy (who started out as a near #Never Trumper), Molly Hemingway, Kimberly Strassel and John Solomon.
 
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KillerGopherFan

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Just to add to that, more donations to The Clinton Foundation came from Ukraine than any other country.

https://www.lifezette.com/2019/10/ukraine-cash-clinton-foundation/

A shocking new report reveals that Ukraine donated more money to the Clinton Foundation than any other county on Earth.

You’re thinking: Come on, Saudi Arabia had to have donated more?

Wrong.

The Saudis donated $7.3 million to the Clinton Foundation.

England? What about England — it had to have donated more, right?

Nope.

England donated $8.4 million.

Ukraine beat out both of those countries — and everyone else — by donating a whopping $10 million to the Clinton Foundation.


All attempting to buy influence when Hillary became President. Those donations to the CF have dried up now.
 

bga1

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Just to add to that, more donations to The Clinton Foundation came from Ukraine than any other country.

https://www.lifezette.com/2019/10/ukraine-cash-clinton-foundation/

A shocking new report reveals that Ukraine donated more money to the Clinton Foundation than any other county on Earth.

You’re thinking: Come on, Saudi Arabia had to have donated more?

Wrong.

The Saudis donated $7.3 million to the Clinton Foundation.

England? What about England — it had to have donated more, right?

Nope.

England donated $8.4 million.

Ukraine beat out both of those countries — and everyone else — by donating a whopping $10 million to the Clinton Foundation.


All attempting to buy influence when Hillary became President. Those donations to the CF have dried up now.
Stop that! The story is that two fat guys who know Giuliani gave money to a Trump PAC. Stay up to speed. Besides, Schiff got the smoking gun today...from, from, from, wait....Kemp! Wait until they start investigating Pence! Can you say President Pelosi? There may not be a need for a 2020 election. Skip the debates. Pelosi all the way! Infowars! :) (that's kind of a fun way to end a post)
 

Minnesota

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Not to chum the waters, but Hunter Biden’s qualifications for being on the Amtrak board are essentially that he rode a train once.
 

bga1

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Not to chum the waters, but Hunter Biden’s qualifications for being on the Amtrak board are essentially that he rode a train once.
I believe he also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...
 

bga1

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This is interesting. Requests for US aid in Ukraine jumped by a factor of 4X in 2016. Hmmm


 

bga1

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Ukraine cooperating with the FBI...

https://creativedestructionmedia.co...cover-up-in-series-of-articles-with-sourcing/

CD Media has personally seen and obtained an immense amount of data on the story we broke last week regarding former Ukrainian Petro Poroshenko’s laundering of hundreds of millions of dollars of IMF aid money and the attempts by the Democratic Party and the Obama Administration to cover up the scandal and go after now President Trump, along with involvement by then Vice President Joe Biden, and his son Hunter Biden.

As mentioned before, we will be releasing a large number of sourcing articles, starting with this one, over the next few weeks. Another will be released later today which details how the Poroshenko money laundering actually worked.

Our source has seen the data from within the Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s Office. CD Media can confirm the prosecutor’s office is ready to cooperate with the FBI and the information has been recently provided to FBI agents.

The first thing readers must realize is that the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) was an organization set up (extra-judicially) by the Obama Administration within Ukraine to help the Democrats cover up the vast corruption that had been going on, and as a tool to go after then-candidate Donald J. Trump. In fact, the initial head of the bureau engineered by the U.S. State Department in Ukraine, Artem Sytnyk, has been tried and convicted of conspiring to help presidential candidate Hillary Clinton defeat Donald Trump in the 2016 election. Sytnyk’s group was the office that released the so-called ‘black ledger’ against Paul Manafort, who was then Trump’s campaign manager and now sits in jail, convicted by the Mueller investigation.
 

bga1

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This is interesting. It looks like Obama was a Russian puppet...

 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Hillary Clinton profited more the Russians than any person in history. Democrats can not, for the life of them see the problem with this? Hillary Clinton then accuses every grassroots candidate that threatens the corporate/political elites, of being 'a Russian agent', and the Democrats believe it. It illustrates how far removed from reality people can become when they're the victims of mass brainwashing.
 

bga1

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One can only hope that Clinton calling Gabbards a candidate supported by the Russians, is a watershed moment. Is there a possibility that at least 25% of Democrats think independently enough to stop and think about the party they have supported and what has happened to it? From the far left, Bernie and Warren are radical lefties and then the old guard, Clinton and Biden are corrupt as can be. Clinton saying this and getting slapped silly by Gabbards has to be a wake up call for at least some that the Democratic party is in dire straits.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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One can only hope that Clinton calling Gabbards a candidate supported by the Russians, is a watershed moment. Is there a possibility that at least 25% of Democrats think independently enough to stop and think about the party they have supported and what has happened to it? From the far left, Bernie and Warren are radical lefties and then the old guard, Clinton and Biden are corrupt as can be. Clinton saying this and getting slapped silly by Gabbards has to be a wake up call for at least some that the Democratic party is in dire straits.
Make no mistake Tulsi Gabbard is a radical progressive. Just because she served as a clerk in a medical unit in Iraq doesn't anoint her, or make her exempt from criticism. She is for reparations, universal health care, and govt funding of planned parenthood. She is not a middle-of-the-road, moderate Democrat.
 

bga1

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Make no mistake Tulsi Gabbard is a radical progressive. Just because she served as a clerk in a medical unit in Iraq doesn't anoint her, or make her exempt from criticism. She is for reparations, universal health care, and govt funding of planned parenthood. She is not a middle-of-the-road, moderate Democrat.
Yep- totally correct. The point being that Clinton's behavior signifies how the party works.
 

bga1

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Right on cue with how the Dems operate - here is the increasingly pathetic Joe Biden getting on the Russian train......

 

MplsGopher

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I don’t believe there is much sway for the Russians or anyone to hold this time.

Trump has made everything hyper-partisan. If you can be “swayed” by a Russian trolls against Biden, it just means you never were going to vote D. If you choose to donate to Biden against Russian trolls, it just means you never were going to vote R.

There is no such thing as someone who doesn’t know if they’re going to vote for or against Trump.

Anyone claiming to be is a liar who is seeking attention.
 

bga1

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I don’t believe there is much sway for the Russians or anyone to hold this time.

Trump has made everything hyper-partisan. If you can be “swayed” by a Russian trolls against Biden, it just means you never were going to vote D. If you choose to donate to Biden against Russian trolls, it just means you never were going to vote R.

There is no such thing as someone who doesn’t know if they’re going to vote for or against Trump.

Anyone claiming to be is a liar who is seeking attention.
There was no Russian involvement last time other than the Dems hyping it. The Dems were the best allies of the Russians as the true reason for their small efforts was to sow disinformation and weaken our confidence in our systems. They could not have had a better partner than the Ds and the #resistance for the past three years.
 

MplsGopher

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Can you quote some snippets?

I don't click on links unless they're from major sources with much at stake to lose (reputation, $$$, etc.).
 

cncmin

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Can you quote some snippets?

I don't click on links unless they're from major sources with much at stake to lose (reputation, $$$, etc.).
OK, I'll added a few paragraphs, below. The site is the journalism/opinion site The Intercept. Note that the first one is written by the guy who wrote the original Joe/Hunter Biden story in 2015. The second one is written by the guy who thoroughly debunks the RW conspiracy. You should read it to be better informed, as snippets don't do the articles justice.

"It’s strange to see my journalism twisted, perverted, and turned into lies and poisonous propaganda by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, and their enablers. But that’s what has happened to a news story I wrote four years ago.

In 2015, I wrote a story for the New York Times about Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, and Ukraine. Many observers now seem to think this suddenly hot story came out of nowhere this year, but that is not true.

The truth behind that story has been lost in a swamp of right-wing opposition research, White House lies, and bizarre follow-up stories. Now it appears that the Biden-Ukraine story will play a role in a new impeachment inquiry against Trump, amid evidence that he sought to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky by withholding U.S. aid unless Zelensky agreed to investigate the Bidens....

...In December 2015, I was an investigative reporter in the Washington bureau of the Times. That month, I published a story reporting that Vice President Joe Biden had just traveled to Ukraine, in part to send a message to the Ukrainian government that it needed to crack down on corruption.

But I also wrote that his anti-corruption message might be undermined by the association of his son Hunter with one of Ukraine’s largest natural gas companies, Burisma Holdings, and with its owner, Mykola Zlochevsky. Zlochevsky had been Ukraine’s ecology minister under former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, a pro-Russian leader who had been forced into exile in Russia....



-----

The accusation is that Biden blackmailed Ukraine’s new leaders into firing the country’s chief prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, to derail an investigation he was leading into a Ukrainian gas company that the vice president’s son, Hunter, was paid to advise.

The truth, Kaleniuk said, is that Shokin was forced from office at Biden’s urging because he had failed to conduct thorough investigations of corruption, and had stifled efforts to investigate embezzlement and misconduct by public officials following the 2014 uprising.

Properly debunking this particular conspiracy theory is easier said than done, though, since it is set in Ukraine, a country with byzantine political intrigue at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. The rivalries between political factions in Kyiv are so intense that even the country’s new anti-corruption agencies are at each other’s throats.

 
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MplsGopher

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Seems very believable to me.

Why doesn't Biden and all of Dems just come out with the correct message and information, then?
 

bga1

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Seems very believable to me.

Why doesn't Biden and all of Dems just come out with the correct message and information, then?
They don't want to talk about it, because the actual facts are not in their favor. They want to bury the Biden story. The media is helping all they can.
 

KillerGopherFan

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The accusation is that Biden blackmailed Ukraine’s new leaders into firing the country’s chief prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, to derail an investigation he was leading into a Ukrainian gas company that the vice president’s son, Hunter, was paid to advise.

The truth, Kaleniuk said, is that Shokin was forced from office at Biden’s urging because he had failed to conduct thorough investigations of corruption, and had stifled efforts to investigate embezzlement and misconduct by public officials following the 2014 uprising.

Properly debunking this particular conspiracy theory is easier said than done, though, since it is set in Ukraine, a country with byzantine political intrigue at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. The rivalries between political factions in Kyiv are so intense that even the country’s new anti-corruption agencies are at each other’s throats.

For anybody that has followed the story (apparently not you or MG), this was a well known contention.

Just b/c somebody reports this, doesn’t mean that the relationship wasn’t a conflict of interest and/or should never have occurred, or that there aren’t other forces at work. As the story concludes, it hasn’t been debunked, as Biden has claimed, and it hasn’t been investigated by the appropriate authorities.

It is entirely possible that Shokin was fired for legitimate reasons, but that doesn’t preclude the possibility of Biden’s quid pro quo also being connected to ending the investigation of Burisma. I don’t see anybody giving Trump the benefit of the doubt for having other totally legitimate reasons for withholding aid, that being his concern about Ukraine corruption and European countries lack of aid for military resources, as well as the alleged personal benefit of investigating the DNC and Biden corruption.

And, if it is just an appearance of conflict of interest, that’s a ”big f’n deal” to quote Joe Biden. Joe Biden said early in his Senate career that he wouldn’t even own one stock b/c of his concern for conflicts of interest. Now, his son is profiting solely off of his dad’s name to the tune of millions of dollars though he has no qualifications for holding such a position. It appears to be an attempt to buy influence. No VP should be in charge of Ukrainian issues when his son is on the board of known corrupt company in a corrupt country’s government.
 

Section2

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For anybody that has followed the story (apparently not you or MG), this was a well known contention.

Just b/c somebody reports this, doesn’t mean that the relationship wasn’t a conflict of interest and/or should never have occurred, or that there aren’t other forces at work. As the story concludes, it hasn’t been debunked, as Biden has claimed, and it hasn’t been investigated by the appropriate authorities.

It is entirely possible that Shokin was fired for legitimate reasons, but that doesn’t preclude the possibility of Biden’s quid pro quo also being connected to ending the investigation of Burisma. I don’t see anybody giving Trump the benefit of the doubt for having other totally legitimate reasons for withholding aid, that being his concern about Ukraine corruption and European countries lack of aid for military resources, as well as the alleged personal benefit of investigating the DNC and Biden corruption.

And, if it is just an appearance of conflict of interest, that’s a ”big f’n deal” to quote Joe Biden. Joe Biden said early in his Senate career that he wouldn’t even own one stock b/c of his concern for conflicts of interest. Now, his son is profiting solely off of his dad’s name to the tune of millions of dollars though he has no qualifications for holding such a position. It appears to be an attempt to buy influence. No VP should be in charge of Ukrainian issues when his son is on the board of known corrupt company in a corrupt country’s government.
Shokin was either investigating Burisma at the time of his firing, or had already dropped the investigation. There's apparently ample evidence that the former is true. I would imagine it wouldn't take 3 years of Robert Mueller to determine the truth.
 

MplsGopher

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For anybody that has followed the story (apparently not you or MG), this was a well known contention.

Just b/c somebody reports this, doesn’t mean that the relationship wasn’t a conflict of interest and/or should never have occurred, or that there aren’t other forces at work. As the story concludes, it hasn’t been debunked, as Biden has claimed, and it hasn’t been investigated by the appropriate authorities.

It is entirely possible that Shokin was fired for legitimate reasons, but that doesn’t preclude the possibility of Biden’s quid pro quo also being connected to ending the investigation of Burisma. I don’t see anybody giving Trump the benefit of the doubt for having other totally legitimate reasons for withholding aid, that being his concern about Ukraine corruption and European countries lack of aid for military resources, as well as the alleged personal benefit of investigating the DNC and Biden corruption.

And, if it is just an appearance of conflict of interest, that’s a ”big f’n deal” to quote Joe Biden. Joe Biden said early in his Senate career that he wouldn’t even own one stock b/c of his concern for conflicts of interest. Now, his son is profiting solely off of his dad’s name to the tune of millions of dollars though he has no qualifications for holding such a position. It appears to be an attempt to buy influence. No VP should be in charge of Ukrainian issues when his son is on the board of known corrupt company in a corrupt country’s government.
There's no benefit of the doubt to be given to Trump, he acted purely, illegally in self-interest.
 

cncmin

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Seems very believable to me.

Why doesn't Biden and all of Dems just come out with the correct message and information, then?
They do. But their smaller megaphone is drowned out by that of the POTUS and of his colluding, massive media, FOX News, Sinclair, AM/FM Talk Radio, Russian trolls/Facebook/social media, the Gopherhole OT Board, etc. A false conspiracy that becomes social, however false, is plenty more powerful than the truth.
 

cncmin

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For anybody that has followed the story (apparently not you or MG), this was a well known contention.

Just b/c somebody reports this, doesn’t mean that the relationship wasn’t a conflict of interest and/or should never have occurred, or that there aren’t other forces at work. As the story concludes, it hasn’t been debunked, as Biden has claimed, and it hasn’t been investigated by the appropriate authorities.

It is entirely possible that Shokin was fired for legitimate reasons, but that doesn’t preclude the possibility of Biden’s quid pro quo also being connected to ending the investigation of Burisma. I don’t see anybody giving Trump the benefit of the doubt for having other totally legitimate reasons for withholding aid, that being his concern about Ukraine corruption and European countries lack of aid for military resources, as well as the alleged personal benefit of investigating the DNC and Biden corruption.

And, if it is just an appearance of conflict of interest, that’s a ”big f’n deal” to quote Joe Biden. Joe Biden said early in his Senate career that he wouldn’t even own one stock b/c of his concern for conflicts of interest. Now, his son is profiting solely off of his dad’s name to the tune of millions of dollars though he has no qualifications for holding such a position. It appears to be an attempt to buy influence. No VP should be in charge of Ukrainian issues when his son is on the board of known corrupt company in a corrupt country’s government.
I personally consider it a big deal, because the truth is that Hunter Biden - and any other children or close associates of those in government - enriching themselves through work for foreign interests - legally or not - is entirely unethical (and should be illegal, period). I personally have reduced my favorability of Joe Biden, in turn, even if he doesn't directly control the life of his son, because I feel Mr. Biden should have done something to get his son out of that role, in the name of ethics.

However, the RW conspiracy that Joe Biden assisted his son is false; and that is the point of my message. An unethical act does not equal a false, debunked accusation of impropriety toward the father, for which there has been zero evidence of the wrongdoing accused by RW-dom to date. As for Trump, if you applied even a tiny, itsy bitsy portion of the scrutiny you have for any Democrat/non-RWer to him and his cohorts in crime, you wouldn't be such a fanboy and you'd make far better contributions to the Gopherhole OT Board.
 
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MplsGopher

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For all we know, Joe may have had that conversation with his son and Hunter told him something like "you don't love me as much as Beau, dad, fine, at least let me make a living!"
 

KillerGopherFan

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I personally consider it a big deal, because the truth is that Hunter Biden - and any other children or close associates of those in government - enriching themselves through work for foreign interests - legally or not - is entirely unethical (and should be illegal, period). I personally have reduced my favorability of Joe Biden, in turn, even if he doesn't directly control the life of his son, because I feel Mr. Biden should have done something to get his son out of that role, in the name of ethics.

However, the RW conspiracy that Joe Biden assisted his son is false; and that is the point of my message. An unethical act does not equal a false, debunked accusation of impropriety toward the father, for which there has been zero evidence of the wrongdoing accused by RW-dom to date. As for Trump, if you applied even a tiny, itsy bitsy portion of the scrutiny you have for any Democrat/non-RWer to him and his cohorts in crime, you wouldn't be such a fanboy and you'd make far better contributions to the Gopherhole OT Board.
Regarding your 2nd paragraph, see S2’s response
 
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