Vatican says it will not bless same-sex unions, calling homosexuality a 'sin' and a 'choice'

RememberMurray

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A silly position that almost no one agrees with, that you've cornered yourself into.

^^ This right here means you think it's the same difficulty for a straight man to deny himself a 12 year old girl as it is a gay man to deny himself a 21 year old gay man.

Almost no one agrees, and almost everyone thinks that silly. Because of course it is.

Yes. This type of Bronze Age thinking is one of the big reasons why religion in general is slowly dying out. People grow weary of it.

The old men who wear dresses in the Vatican are caught between a rock and a hard place. They have for centuries promulgated these draconian, hateful, destructive teachings; they know that if they backtrack now they'll be revealed as the frauds they have always been.

So they fight on, in a hopeless, ugly cause, preaching the same dark nonsense.
 

Wally

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As an atheist, I don't expect you to understand. In fact, I expect you to consider it foolishness. I can live with that.

More platitudes and bs

Tell me why its not foolish for you to pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow?
 

MennoSota

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We're all sinners, according to Christian doctrine. We were all created by god, in his image.
God alone judges which sinners are to be forgiven their sins and which are to be condemned.

So it's interesting that straight sinners — here on earth — feel they must admonish gay sinners. If we're all sinners, aren't the straight sinners supposed to be minding their own housekeeping?

Matthew 7:1-3...

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
An atheist quoting the Bible is always an interesting thing. The verses you quote come from Jesus sermon on the mount. Here is the beginning of that sermon.

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sonsof God. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
 

MennoSota

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Yes. This type of Bronze Age thinking is one of the big reasons why religion in general is slowly dying out. People grow weary of it.

The old men who wear dresses in the Vatican are caught between a rock and a hard place. They have for centuries promulgated these draconian, hateful, destructive teachings; they know that if they backtrack now they'll be revealed as the frauds they have always been.

So they fight on, in a hopeless, ugly cause, preaching the same dark nonsense.
Christianity is growing at unprecedented rates in China so that there are now more Christians in China than atheist communist party members. Atheists in China are becoming less and less and less.
Atheism, worldwide, is such a small outlier as to be almost insignificant.
 

MennoSota

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More platitudes and bs

Tell me why its not foolish for you to pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow?
Do you know what covenants God has made with men? Tell me about them and how those covenants are expressed in the Bible.
Wally, do you even know what a covenant is?
Again, since you are an atheist, I find it interesting you care what Christianity believes.
 

Wally

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I find it interesting you care what Christianity believes.

More mumbo jumbo and avoiding my question.


Interesting?
Well considering many people want to impose this bs on me its not interesting, its practical.
 

howeda7

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Christianity is growing at unprecedented rates in China so that there are now more Christians in China than atheist communist party members. Atheists in China are becoming less and less and less.
Atheism, worldwide, is such a small outlier as to be almost insignificant.
And yet you call everyone on here who doesn't agree with your Bible Banging an Atheist, Tiny.
 

MennoSota

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More mumbo jumbo and avoiding my question.


Interesting?
Well considering many people want to impose this bs on me its not interesting, its practical.
You think it's mumbo jumbo because you cannot discern what is said. I don't expect you to understand and frankly, since you are not a Christian, I don't care.
This thread is about the Catholic Church expressing to its members what it teaches. Anyone who is not a member is exempt. It's interesting that people care.

And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
 

RememberMurray

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An atheist quoting the Bible is always an interesting thing. The verses you quote come from Jesus sermon on the mount. Here is the beginning of that sermon.

An atheist quoting the Bible is "interesting"? Gee, Menno; how else can an atheist be saved but by reading the Holy Book? After all, wasn't the Bible written specifically in order to show lost sinners, like me, the 'One True Way'?

And, yes, I'm aware that the passage is from the Sermon on the Mount. And I'm sure you must have a reason for pointing out something I already knew, but I have no clue what that reason would be.
 

RememberMurray

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Menno, your "you cannot understand" stance brought this to mind:

And do you think that unto such as you,
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew,
God gave the Secret, and denied it me?--
Well, well, what matters it! believe that too.

Old Khayyám, say you, is a debauchee;
If only you were half so good as he!
He sins no sins but gentle drunkenness,
Great-hearted mirth and kind adultery.

But yours the cold heart, and the murderous tongue,
The wintry soul that hates to hear a song,
The close-shut fist, the mean and measuring eye,
And all the little poisoned ways of wrong.


― Omar Khayyám, Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
 

Wally

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You think it's mumbo jumbo because you cannot discern what is said. I don't expect you to understand and frankly, since you are not a Christian, I don't care.
This thread is about the Catholic Church expressing to its members what it teaches. Anyone who is not a member is exempt. It's interesting that people care.

Just keep avoiding the contradictions, keep picking and choosing which parts of the bible work for you and throw out those that don't, keep justifying it with bs arguments, whatever helps you sleep at night.
 

oak_street1981

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I am a good, loyal Agnostic Catholic (16 years plus a graduate degree in Catholic Institutions), and as much as I have run away from the church for most of my life, starting in about 4th grade, I remain amazed that people think any Pope is going to reverse 2000 years of tradition based on the secular / political movements in the last 40 years.

Liberal Popes like Paul VI and our current Pope, or those on the other side like John Paul, or Benedict are not going to swing the pendulum too much in either way.
 

MennoSota

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This person is doing the correct thing. He is leaving the Catholic Church because he wants to fulfill his own passions rather than love Jesus more than his passion.
 

Nax5

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This person is doing the correct thing. He is leaving the Catholic Church because he wants to fulfill his own passions rather than love Jesus more than his passion.
Sounds more like they are disgusted with the opinion of homosexuality being a choice. Based on their background and experience, I have a feeling their relationship with Jesus and church is much stronger than yours.
 

MennoSota

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Sounds more like they are disgusted with the opinion of homosexuality being a choice. Based on their background and experience, I have a feeling their relationship with Jesus and church is much stronger than yours.
The op-ed author is living by emotion, not by sacred text. They want the church to ignore sacred text and bless their feelings and passions. Since the church remains firmly holding to the sacred text as its guide, the author is upset. Therefore, it is best for the author to leave the church and find a different tradition.

As for your feeling...meh.
 

Wally

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Will they be quietly moved to another parish for breaking the rules?

Depends on the Cardinal. It happened at my church. And now they get no money from me.
Edit
Actually I think its the Bishop. What is the title of the head of the Minneapolis/St Paul Archdiocese?
 

MennoSota

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Or find a better text than the one so touted, which was actually just made up by men.
There are many cults with their own text. Of course you may need to catch the tail of a comet to board the spaceship...
No one is forcing another person to remain in the church.
 

MennoSota

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Depends on the Cardinal. It happened at my church. And now they get no money from me.
Edit
Actually I think its the Bishop. What is the title of the head of the Minneapolis/St Paul Archdiocese?
Well...ya actually gotta have a job in order to have money to share with others...
 

Wally

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Well...ya actually gotta have a job in order to have money to share with others...

No you don't, if your smart you have a Sugar Mama....

That said, I do have a job...and a Sugar Mama
 

Blizzard

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You're right; I am mad. Mad that people like you & Allberry continue to spread your anti-love rhetoric. But then I take a deep breathe and remember your view is losing.

Yes, I've read the text. And thought about it, and debated it, and sought council on it. One of our church's tradition is discernment. We take a deep dive on the text and how it relates to our current society, beyond just gleaning superficial directives. This discernment has led us to be a Reconciling in Christ church, which in ELCA-speak means we welcome and affirm same-sex couples.
This kind of nonsense is why Church governance is so important. The ELCA puts this crap up to vote. Elder led churches, the biblical example, are the way to go.
 

MennoSota

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Good, there are better versions of church.
Perhaps there are, however, there is one Bible and it says the same thing no matter whether you attend church or not.
Just because someone wants to do whatever they feel is right for themselves, it does not mean that the Bible applauds what they do.
 

MennoSota

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This kind of nonsense is why Church governance is so important. The ELCA puts this crap up to vote. Elder led churches, the biblical example, are the way to go.
The ELCA has lost many members as Lutherans have gone to other churches such as the LCMS or LCWS to name a few.
But, ultimately, people will either stay in a church tradition because they see it follows the Bible or they will leave and create a tradition that allows them to do what they think is right in their own eyes.
No need to let it bother you. They don't answer to you, let them answer to their Creator.
 

MennoSota

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You were corrected that there are multiple versions of the Bible.

Multiple Protestant denominations as well.
Your ignorance is profound. When you do textual criticism of the 66 books of the Bible, get back to me. Going to a wiki for your evidence is the equivalent of going to witch doctor to have your tooth pulled.

As to the denominations, there certainly are many. More have been formed as they attempt to avoid any Bible passages they don't like. If you had any clue, you would know there are many different orders in the Catholic Church as well.
 
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