Vatican says it will not bless same-sex unions, calling homosexuality a 'sin' and a 'choice'

MennoSota

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As I said correctly in the post you quoted, and is still correct now:

no human then could've possibly said that such and such social act, which is common today, is acceptable or unacceptable, in any meaningful way.
What I have said, over and over again, is that social constructs do not drive morality. Yet, you keep thinking that social opinion drives morality. You are free to believe such an ungrounded opinion. Your concept of morality will shift like the waves of the sea.
 

MennoSota

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The Vatican/Pope, literally define what Catholicism says are its official positions.

If you don't like that, then get out. Start some other religion.
The Bible defines what the Vatican/Pope express as official positions. Roman Catholicism cannot go against the Bible and still remain in Christianity.
 

MennoSota

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If you consider the Bible to be an accurate portrayal of the entirety of world and human history, you're ignoring quite a lot of archeology, paleontology, geology, etc.
Actually, you are ignoring the vast amount of archeology that confirms the history presented in the Bible.
In each case where archeology has been silent, once information is uncovered, it has proved the historical accuracy of the Bible.
What you may be confusing is the unfounded claims of some Christians that the earth is young. I am not one who claims a young earth. It is very reasonable to recognize God using billions of years in process of creation. Science is not incompatible with Christianity. What is unreasonable is your claim that from nothing came everything. Science doesn't agree with you, which is why atheist's are now moving toward a multiverse theory. The problem, of course is that the multiverse theory still cannot explain its origin.
 

howeda7

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The Bible defines what the Vatican/Pope express as official positions. Roman Catholicism cannot go against the Bible and still remain in Christianity.
Our Tiny >>>>>>>>>>> The Pope.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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The Bible defines what the Vatican/Pope express as official positions. Roman Catholicism cannot go against the Bible and still remain in Christianity.

Oops, someone forgot to inform the Episcopal church, who officially recognizes and has preformed gay marriage ceremonies since 2015, LOL. There are also several Catholic parishes know to be gay friendly and Fr. Mychal Judge, the FDNY Chaplin and the first recognized casualty of 911, was gay.

The Episcopal Church approves religious weddings for gay couples after controversial debate​


Article on Judge -

.


If I was you, I'd maybe stick to snake handling and being morally superior to other Christians, vs. attempting to discussing theology - just a thought😊😊

Nevertheless, God Bless you and enjoy your Holy Week.
 

MplsGopher

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Yet, you keep thinking that social opinion drives morality.
What would we be left with otherwise? That women shouldn't be allowed to work or vote or participate in science and innovation?

What a silly, absurd, objectively false worldview.
 

MplsGopher

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The Bible defines what the Vatican/Pope express as official positions.
The Vatican/Pope are allowed to interpret the words as they see fit, into the church's official positions.

As I said, correctly then as it is now: that you and others don't like that, and have an opinion that doing such is wrong, means literally jack s__t. Go piss off to some other religion.
 

MennoSota

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Oops, someone forgot to inform the Episcopal church, who officially recognizes and has preformed gay marriage ceremonies since 2015, LOL. There are also several Catholic parishes know to be gay friendly and Fr. Mychal Judge, the FDNY Chaplin and the first recognized casualty of 911, was gay.

The Episcopal Church approves religious weddings for gay couples after controversial debate​


Article on Judge -

.


If I was you, I'd maybe stick to snake handling and being morally superior to other Christians, vs. attempting to discussing theology - just a thought😊😊

Nevertheless, God Bless you and enjoy your Holy Week.
So join the episcopal church if you want an organization that changes with the winds of the culture. See how that works out for you.
 

MennoSota

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What would we be left with otherwise? That women shouldn't be allowed to work or vote or participate in science and innovation?

What a silly, absurd, objectively false worldview.
All that you suggest are social issues of which the Bible is silent.
Women in a democracy can vote, they can work and they can be scientists or entrepreneurs. The Bible would not oppose any of your suggestions, nor would the Roman Catholic Church.

You are merely creating strawmen.
 

MennoSota

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The Vatican/Pope are allowed to interpret the words as they see fit, into the church's official positions.

As I said, correctly then as it is now: that you and others don't like that, and have an opinion that doing such is wrong, means literally jack s__t. Go piss off to some other religion.
No one disagrees that the Vatican/Pope interpret as they understand the Bible. On this issue, they have made their interpretation. If a person doesn't like it, they should leave. The Roman Catholic Church leadership is reading the Bible and choosing to agree with the text rather than cast it off and follow the waves of social opinion.
 

MplsGopher

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All that you suggest are social issues of which the Bible is silent.
Women in a democracy can vote, they can work and they can be scientists or entrepreneurs. The Bible would not oppose any of your suggestions, nor would the Roman Catholic Church.
Not true! As you said:

"
So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
"

Taken literally, this means the Bible says that women should not work or participate in society, other than to serve men.

How dare you go against the word of the Bible!!!!!
 

MennoSota

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Not true! As you said:

"
So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
"

Taken literally, this means the Bible says that women should not work or participate in society, other than to serve men.

How dare you go against the word of the Bible!!!!!
LOL, you are simply a moron.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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So join the episcopal church if you want an organization that changes with the winds of the culture. See how that works out for you.

LOL, a majority of US Catholics support gay marriage, so I'm not on any island bro, unlike you.


1617040642258.png
From my understanding of the Catholic church in Latin America and Africa, they would have a majority of their parishioners who are against it.

Again, God Bless you and enjoy your Holy Week.

BTW bro, how's things going on your island? Haven't seen you in a while -

1617041138238.png
 

Wally

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A false statement.
The churches, before Christianity was legalized in Rome, were already using and distributing the 66 books to be read in their churches.
At this point you are simply grasping at straws.
The only point of this thread is really to point out that the Roman Catholic Church has a basis for its position and those who don't like it can leave. The church was never started to be a country club to make sinners feel good about their sin.

Yea the Catholic Curch never sold atonement for sins.

They still do it, I know someone who donates heavily and the church will bend over backwards for him. Loool. Need an annulment, bang done. Lol
 

MennoSota

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LOL, a majority of US Catholics support gay marriage, so I'm not on any island bro, unlike you.


View attachment 12285
From my understanding of the Catholic church in Latin America and Africa, they would have a majority of their parishioners who are against it.

Again, God Bless you and enjoy your Holy Week.

BTW bro, how's things going on your island? Haven't seen you in a while -

View attachment 12286
Once again, you assume that the layity drives doctrine. It does not. Therefore either the layity conforms to the doctrine of the church or it leaves the church. I believe Jesus parable about the wheat and the tares applies in such a situation.
 

MennoSota

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Yea the Catholic Curch never sold atonement for sins.

They still do it, I know someone who donates heavily and the church will bend over backwards for him. Loool. Need an annulment, bang done. Lol
Irrelevant to the topic at hand.
 

MennoSota

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No its not irrelevant that you pedastalize an organization run by men.
I don't. When a church organization creates tradition contrary to the Bible, I would point it out. In the case of this thread topic, I already provided information showing the greek words used to speak of same gender sex tells the reader that it is wrong. You would have to ignore what the text says in order to say otherwise. Rome seldom does that. What Rome tends to do is create a ruling from a place of silence in the Bible and then declare it to be equal with the Bible. This is because the official statement of Rome is that the Bible and Tradition are equal in authority. Not all Christian traditions agree with Rome. If a Roman Catholic doesn't like the churches position, they can leave. Nokomis has chosen a different tradition. It's his choice. I don't have his tradition, but I respect his right to hold his tradition as I respect your right to be an atheist.
 

Nax5

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If churches want to survive (at least in the US), they can't follow the Vatican's lead on this.

 

MennoSota

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If churches want to survive (at least in the US), they can't follow the Vatican's lead on this.

Churches will survive. They may be small home churches like they were at the beginning. They may be persecuted by the national cultural tyrants, but they will survive. As I mentioned, the church in China is growing by leaps and bounds so that there are now more Christians than there are Communist Party members.
The parable of the wheat and the tares certainly applies.
 

Nax5

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Churches will survive. They may be small home churches like they were at the beginning.
Right, they'll be around. But they'll survive like record shops survive. In niche circles. Which is pretty sad in my opinion.
 

MennoSota

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Right, they'll be around. But they'll survive like record shops survive. In niche circles. Which is pretty sad in my opinion.
It's sad for the people who oppress the church. In places of oppression the church thrives. China, Iran, India these places are seeing growth, despite overt government persecution. Where the church is dying is in places where human pride is strongest.
 

Wally

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Churches will survive. They may be small home churches like they were at the beginning. They may be persecuted by the national cultural tyrants, but they will survive. As I mentioned, the church in China is growing by leaps and bounds so that there are now more Christians than there are Communist Party members.
The parable of the wheat and the tares certainly applies.
The reeducation camps will pop up soon. I lived with a visiting professor from China, he got into the local Chinese Christian Church when he was here, said if it wasn't for his kid he would stay in the US.

I think religion for most people is a place to belong, they need a gang to belong to otherwise they are lost.
 

MennoSota

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The reeducation camps will pop up soon. I lived with a visiting professor from China, he got into the local Chinese Christian Church when he was here, said if it wasn't for his kid he would stay in the US.

I think religion for most people is a place to belong, they need a gang to belong to otherwise they are lost.
An atheist might think this. A sociologist would know better.
 
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