UW-Madison does not want former Badgers wide receiver Quintez Cephus back lawyers say

Bob_Loblaw

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Accusers almost never gain anything from coming forward, and more likely lose something in the process (at the very least, stress and emotional pain in having to recall the incident and the impact it had on them).

That’s why they are to be believed, and not silenced.

This is a concept that many here struggle with mightily.

The idea of false accusations is a red herring. It doesn’t happen nearly enough (or really much at all) to warrant significant consideration in the discussion.

If you were accused of S.A., it means likely you were not a perfect angel and you made some poor decisions that night.

Perhaps not poor enough to land you in jail, but being expelled from school for violating student conduct is a much lower consequence so the burden of proof can be much lower.
You're completely out of touch. It does happen. It happens because of mental illness and it happens for a wide variety of other reasons. Our country has a rich history of this happening, especially to men of color and to famous men. Victims, of all crimes, should be heard and evidence should be gathered. No victim should ever be silenced (no one is arguing they should), but no victim should be automatically believed despite the evidence or lackthereof.

As far as this statement "If you were accused of S.A., it means likely you were not a perfect angel and you made some poor decisions that night", it's one of the most immoral and illogical things that I've ever read. I used to think you were just a harmless idiot. I was wrong, you're not harmless.
 

46Gophers

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Ugh, I decided to check out this thread to hear about how things are not rosey in Cheddarland and see this has turned into another ugly Gopherhole thread. I'm out of here!
 

MinnGopher

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You're completely out of touch. It does happen. It happens because of mental illness and it happens for a wide variety of other reasons. Our country has a rich history of this happening, especially to men of color and to famous men. Victims, of all crimes, should be heard and evidence should be gathered. No victim should ever be silenced (no one is arguing they should), but no victim should be automatically believed despite the evidence or lackthereof.

As far as this statement "If you were accused of S.A., it means likely you were not a perfect angel and you made some poor decisions that night", it's one of the most immoral and illogical things that I've ever read. I used to think you were just a harmless idiot. I was wrong, you're not harmless.
Good post Bob.
 

Schnauzer

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I wish people would quite responding to, and quoting G4L. It sort of wrecks the work I have done to ignore-list him and his habit of filling up every discussion with dozens of responses. For me, I can't think of another person over the years that has done more to drag down GH discussions so consistently. I've got other people I have ignore-listed but none have had the prolific, consistent ability to infect nearly every discussion, and then revisit every discussion to continue to drag them down over and over again.
I don't quote myself that often but since it didn't do much good and it could perhaps use a clarification, why not? By "G4L" - I mean Gophers_4Life
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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I wish people would quite responding to, and quoting G4L. It sort of wrecks the work I have done to ignore-list him and his habit of filling up every discussion with dozens of responses. For me, I can't think of another person over the years that has done more to drag down GH discussions so consistently. I've got other people I have ignore-listed but none have had the prolific, consistent ability to infect nearly every discussion, and then revisit every discussion to continue to drag them down over and over again.
The OT board has been on board with this for a while. It's been outed time and again as a bit, plain and simple. Trolling, but all over the map trolling, scatterbrained it seems.
 

Some guy

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You're completely out of touch. It does happen. It happens because of mental illness and it happens for a wide variety of other reasons. Our country has a rich history of this happening, especially to men of color and to famous men. Victims, of all crimes, should be heard and evidence should be gathered. No victim should ever be silenced (no one is arguing they should), but no victim should be automatically believed despite the evidence or lackthereof.

As far as this statement "If you were accused of S.A., it means likely you were not a perfect angel and you made some poor decisions that night", it's one of the most immoral and illogical things that I've ever read. I used to think you were just a harmless idiot. I was wrong, you're not harmless.
This is a pretty good post.
You’re better at making this argument when you don’t use the word “fascist”
 

Gopherguy0723

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We’d have a long discussion about the life choices he made that led to the events of that night. Probably, he wasn’t a perfect angel.

Very, very unlikely some woman that he’s never met in his life randomly lashes out at someone with a false accusation. Also, if there is literally no proof of anything and no one is willing to testify at all, including the accuser, then it’s very likely the school wouldn’t take action.
You're proof that this country has completely lost it.
 

Gopherguy0723

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I agree with Gophers_4life

If you are plugged into society at all, you need to rethink things and be aware of who you are with when you are with them alone.
If you watched the news in the last 3-5 years, you know that as a male, being alone with a female for a short period of time is not safe, and you can assume that if you are left alone, something really bad could end up being blamed on you.

It's pretty important to establish a pretty long, strong, trusting relationship to spend time alone at this point. You may not like it, but if you want to eliminate the risk, these are the choices you need to make.
No one should have to live like that. Why are you surrendering to tyranny?
 

Gopherguy0723

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There might be a better way, but you really have to be aware these days of your surroundings. Change might come, but it would sure help these single-men in their case if these reports came out and there defense could be "Well, we dated for 6 months, or we dated for 6 weeks, or we've been on 6 dates and things seemed to be going well. You know, like it was an actual relationship at that point. Then it would be more of a domestic case of whether there was abuse and when it started. But without any history to put in into context, the worse is assumed and it's hard to defend with or without witnesses if a girl says she's raped. In years past, the burden was put on the victim to prove it, but with it being a traumatic event, it's probably good that they don't have to endure more embarrassment and pain to have to make a case.

In the end, this is probably better and men (or boys) need to start to act as such.
It can be a real trap for men, and that's why it's better for them to get to know these girls so they can better assess whether it's a trap or not.

I would bet that inside the Gopher football meetings, PJ is having conversations to this point about these men being aware of their surroundings.
Quit blamimg the victims of persecution.
 

STPGopher

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Press conference — lawyers speak, teammates stand in support. Pulling the race card... This could get explosive for UW if the race angle takes hold although the hierarchy favors women over black (or white or brown) men...The Wisconsinites don’t seem familiar with “The Process” not requiring the same level of proof or lack of similar due process to a criminal or civil trial, respectively. They may also underestimate an administration’s sympathies for the EOAA and apparent digging in the heels/circling of the wagons for national PR purposes in the era of MeToo. Pass some popcorn.


https://www.channel3000.com/content...petition-to-readmit-quintez-cephus/1108493243
If you are going to go that far, you may as well take one more step and change it to this:
"Press conference — lawyers speak, teammates stand in support. Pulling the race card... This could get explosive for UW if the race angle takes hold although the hierarchy favors white women over black (or white or brown) men...The Wisconsinites don’t seem familiar with “The Process” not requiring the same level of proof or lack of similar due process to a criminal or civil trial, respectively. They may also underestimate an administration’s sympathies for the EOAA and apparent digging in the heels/circling of the wagons for national PR purposes in the era of MeToo. Pass some popcorn."

US citizen or not, it applies.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Ugh, I decided to check out this thread to hear about how things are not rosey in Cheddarland and see this has turned into another ugly Gopherhole thread. I'm out of here!
Appropriate reaction to threads regarding this topic:

 

Pompous Elitist

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If you are going to go that far, you may as well take one more step and change it to this:
"Press conference — lawyers speak, teammates stand in support. Pulling the race card... This could get explosive for UW if the race angle takes hold although the hierarchy favors white women over black (or white or brown) men...The Wisconsinites don’t seem familiar with “The Process” not requiring the same level of proof or lack of similar due process to a criminal or civil trial, respectively. They may also underestimate an administration’s sympathies for the EOAA and apparent digging in the heels/circling of the wagons for national PR purposes in the era of MeToo. Pass some popcorn."

US citizen or not, it applies.
I don’t know about that. Maybe but I don’t know of many examples. Can we all stop trying to apply blanket prejudice please?

I do think the Wisconsin fans (that currently support Cephus) underestimate how worried the heads of UW are concerned about optics around publicly giving in to the demands of an athlete, particularly a male football player, over the protests of two sexual assault accusers. The difference between that case and ours (which never even reached the level of charges for many reasons) seems to be the salacious nature of the event and the release of the EOAA opinion to a media hungry for rage-inducing content. Too early to know what will happen once he is denied readmission - will the team go to the wall for him?
 

Vandy

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"Players like this", meaning... players that are accused of a crime, and then acquitted of said crime(s)?
Both. Nebraska takes all comers.

My main intent was a tongue in cheek generalized shot at Nebraska's lacking scruples when it comes to moral standards.
 
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STPGopher

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I don’t know about that. Maybe but I don’t know of many examples. Can we all stop trying to apply blanket prejudice please?

I do think the Wisconsin fans (that currently support Cephus) underestimate how worried the heads of UW are concerned about optics around publicly giving in to the demands of an athlete, particularly a male football player, over the protests of two sexual assault accusers. The difference between that case and ours (which never even reached the level of charges for many reasons) seems to be the salacious nature of the event and the release of the EOAA opinion to a media hungry for rage-inducing content. Too early to know what will happen once he is denied readmission - will the team go to the wall for him?
My point was/ is that this process appears to favor certain females accounts more than other individuals. It is obvious that many people of many ethnic/ racial backrounds are in support of this young man. (Kind of like the situation that we are all familiar with.) They are in opposition to the process in question.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Both. Nebraska takes all comers.

My main intent was a tongue in cheek generalized shot at Nebraska's lacking scruples when it comes to moral standards.
Neb is an interesting one.

Maurice Washington got his next court date set for after their first game.

Frost has not said if he will or will not play Washington...
 

Pompous Elitist

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Neb is an interesting one.

Maurice Washington got his next court date set for after their first game.

Frost has not said if he will or will not play Washington...
He seems guilty of being a jerk but seems like the revenge porn and child porn charges are a little trumped up. What percent of 17-18 yr old high schoolers have some inappropriate underage pics or vids of significant others etc? I’d guess a higher number than some will find comfortable.
 

SSWWMAS

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Quintez Cephus was reinstated as a student today. No word on his athletic eligibility. One was assume he would need some sort of waiver from the NCAA (if there is such a thing) since he wasn't enrolled last semester nor does he meet the credit requirements.
 

RememberMurray

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Quintez Cephus was reinstated as a student today. No word on his athletic eligibility. One was assume he would need some sort of waiver from the NCAA (if there is such a thing) since he wasn't enrolled last semester nor does he meet the credit requirements.
That's very interesting.

Question: was he actually charged with a crime, and if so were the charges later dropped?
 

Gophers_4life

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Being charged with a crime is entirely irrelevant to standing for a civil suit, and exactly likewise, entirely irrelevant to if the university decides to expel him or not.

The university examined the evidence, within their process, and made a decision independent of the criminal investigation. As is correct.


It takes an incredible — basically a willful — amount of ignorance to be unable to separate the criminal investigation in your mind from the federally mandated investigate performed by the school’s federally mandated (title IX) office.
 
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bemidjigopher

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Being charged with a crime is entirely irrelevant to standing for a civil suit, and exactly likewise, entirely irrelevant to if the university decides to expel him or not.

The university examined the evidence, within their process, and made a decision independent of the criminal investigation. As is correct.


It takes an incredible — basically a willful — amount of ignorance to be unable to separate the criminal investigation in your mind from the federally mandated investigate performed by the school’s federally mandated (title IX) office.
You keep thinking that

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

GFBfan

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Being charged with a crime is entirely irrelevant to standing for a civil suit, and exactly likewise, entirely irrelevant to if the university decides to expel him or not.

The university examined the evidence, within their process, and made a decision independent of the criminal investigation. As is correct.


It takes an incredible — basically a willful — amount of ignorance to be unable to separate the criminal investigation in your mind from the federally mandated investigate performed by the school’s federally mandated (title IX) office.
After writing this numerous times here and in other places are your expectations that all GHers agree with you?
 

Gophers_4life

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You keep thinking that
I most certainly will.

I look forward to the day that someone actually steps up to the plate with an intelligent, well-reasoned legal argument for why a university’s federally mandated investigation should be forced to consider the outcome of a criminal investigation with heavy weighting when forming the decision of its own investigation. Doubt I’m going to see that any time soon, on here.

Would also love to see someone give a real challenge in court, to a university’s right to expel a student if a criminal investigation declined to press charges. That could happen one of these days. But so far, it has not.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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That's very interesting.

Question: was he actually charged with a crime, and if so were the charges later dropped?
He was charged, tried, found not guilty.

Evidence wise it was largely he said / she(s) said.

He didn't participate in the schools investigation as he didn't want to hurt his chances in court.

Kinda raises a question as to what the school is deciding at that point... just one person's story then?
 

Gophers_4life

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Kinda raises a question as to what the school is deciding at that point... just one person's story then?
So the school can’t expel anyone if the person refuses to participate in the investigation?

Gee, I wonder what every person will do moving forward ...
 

WoodburyTim

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Being charged with a crime is entirely irrelevant to standing for a civil suit, and exactly likewise, entirely irrelevant to if the university decides to expel him or not.

The university examined the evidence, within their process, and made a decision independent of the criminal investigation. As is correct.


It takes an incredible — basically a willful — amount of ignorance to be unable to separate the criminal investigation in your mind from the federally mandated investigate performed by the school’s federally mandated (title IX) office.
Oh brother
 

Pompous Elitist

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He was charged, tried, found not guilty.

Evidence wise it was largely he said / she(s) said.

He didn't participate in the schools investigation as he didn't want to hurt his chances in court.

Kinda raises a question as to what the school is deciding at that point... just one person's story then?
I think the reason the jury came back within 30 minutes because they caught one or both fibbing about being incapacitated despite footage of them walking normally immediately pre and possibly post- event, and some texting discussions.

I’m shocked he was reinstated - things are apparently different in Madison.
 

RememberMurray

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I think the reason the jury came back within 30 minutes because they caught one or both fibbing about being incapacitated despite footage of them walking normally immediately pre and possibly post- event, and some texting discussions.

I’m shocked he was reinstated - things are apparently different in Madison.
Yes... apparently. I would love to know what discussions went on, and who was involved in the decision.

Now it will be fascinating to watch what Chryst, the B1G and the NCAA decide on whether or not he plays football. But, hey — you never know; maybe the kid is really, really into academics and simply wants to get his degree...?
 

#2Gopher

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So the school can’t expel anyone if the person refuses to participate in the investigation?

Gee, I wonder what every person will do moving forward ...
Will be interesting to see what happens in the future. Clearly doesn't make sense.
 

RememberMurray

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"UW-Madison chancellor Rebecca Blank made the appropriate decision when she readmitted Quintez Cephus to the coming school year.

This was not an easy, or casual choice. Blank and the university were pulled in different directions by sincere Wisconsinites with profoundly different thoughts on what the chancellor should decide about the Badger wide receiver’s future. But Blank chose to act in the interest of fairness and respect for the rule of law, and we applaud her for that.

Cephus was expelled from the university last semester after he was accused by two women of sexual assault. The expulsion was appropriate at the time. But, earlier this month, Cephus was acquitted of those charges by a Dane County jury in less than 45 minutes and he then petitioned to be allowed to return to the university."


https://madison.com/ct/opinion/edit...cle_2e6a1f12-44b2-5959-bcae-784b984693b4.html

Wow!

Fairness... and the rule of law! Now those are a couple of old-fashioned concepts worth consideration, aren't they?
 
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