USPS in Trouble

Section2

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Post office asking for $50 Billion bailout. This will likely become a hot topic soon. FYI, FedEx entire market cap is ~$32B. UPS $69B.

This is a no brainer to me, let them fail. We don't need a post office anymore. Or let them find a way to make it work, maybe weekly delivery or every other day.

The Dems panic on this is related to mail voting it seems, but I don't see why we couldn't vote via private mail service if needed.
 

stocker08

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Fail. Can't let USPS go down.

I agree that everyday mail service is not necessary though.
 

TruthSeeker

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Post office asking for $50 Billion bailout. This will likely become a hot topic soon. FYI, FedEx entire market cap is ~$32B. UPS $69B.

This is a no brainer to me, let them fail. We don't need a post office anymore. Or let them find a way to make it work, maybe weekly delivery or every other day.

The Dems panic on this is related to mail voting it seems, but I don't see why we couldn't vote via private mail service if needed.
You could do that, but Congress would have to mandate that those businesses serve every address in the United States. Congress has Constitutional authority to do it. So, as long as you're ok with the Government telling private business what to do, then you're fine. I'm not so sure UPS and FedEd are ok with it. Their business models aren't designed for it.

I'm guessing we'd lose more money getting those businesses to change their business models and raise their prices than bailout the Post Office. I could be wrong though.
 

MplsGopher

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The problem, like TS gets at, is if there is no public option that guarantees official statements & announcements, at least, can make their way to each (customer) household, then such service is entirely a monopoly of private business/tech (email & private delivery companies).

You can't trust them not to take advantage of that, without official government oversight.


It certainly is possible. For example, in Minneapolis there is only one way to get electricity service to your household, and that's the private company Xcel. But they are highly, highly watched and regulated. Same with natural gas.

Should be the same with (fiber) internet service. That's a utility now.


So if you want to say that "parcel delivery" is placed under utility regulation laws, then I suppose it should be possible to make that service a private monopoly.
 

Section2

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You could do that, but Congress would have to mandate that those businesses serve every address in the United States. Congress has Constitutional authority to do it. So, as long as you're ok with the Government telling private business what to do, then you're fine. I'm not so sure UPS and FedEd are ok with it. Their business models aren't designed for it.

I'm guessing we'd lose more money getting those businesses to change their business models and raise their prices than bailout the Post Office. I could be wrong though.
why?
 

MplsGopher

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Three days a week is fine at this point. Times Change; do they need to adjust
So long as you make laws allowing for the lag in time between post mark and delivery, I'd be fine if USPS only ever delivered on Saturdays, frankly.
 

MplsGopher

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So private businesses don't cheat, as they naturally do.

Hypothetical example, FedEx and UPS both say "we won't provide delivery service to the city of Minneapolis, until they lower their fees/tax" or whatever.
 

Section2

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The problem, like TS gets at, is if there is no public option that guarantees official statements & announcements, at least, can make their way to each (customer) household, then such service is entirely a monopoly of private business/tech (email & private delivery companies).

You can't trust them not to take advantage of that, without official government oversight.


It certainly is possible. For example, in Minneapolis there is only one way to get electricity service to your household, and that's the private company Xcel. But they are highly, highly watched and regulated. Same with natural gas.

Should be the same with (fiber) internet service. That's a utility now.


So if you want to say that "parcel delivery" is placed under utility regulation laws, then I suppose it should be possible to make that service a private monopoly.
Fedex and UPS can absolutely guarantee that they will deliver to every household. At a price.

The word "monopoly" means something, look it up.

There's only one way to get electricity in minneapolis BECAUSE of the regulations, not in spite of them.
 

MplsGopher

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Fedex and UPS can absolutely guarantee that they will deliver to every household. At a price.
Yes, thank you for proving my point. If both suddenly demand a 200% premium and the city says no, then 400k people can't receive delivery until the negotiation is settled.

That's fine for cable TV and ESPN haggling over carrier fees. Unacceptable for critical service like delivery.

Email isn't an acceptable substitute, because ISP service can just do the same.
 

Section2

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Yes, thank you for proving my point. If both suddenly demand a 200% premium and the city says no, then 400k people can't receive delivery until the negotiation is settled.

That's fine for cable TV and ESPN haggling over carrier fees. Unacceptable for critical service like delivery.

Email isn't an acceptable substitute, because ISP service can just do the same.
city says no? 400k people? why is the city involved, and what city of 400k people is getting charged 200% more? Do you even economics or business bro?
 

KillerGopherFan

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Post office asking for $50 Billion bailout. This will likely become a hot topic soon. FYI, FedEx entire market cap is ~$32B. UPS $69B.

This is a no brainer to me, let them fail. We don't need a post office anymore. Or let them find a way to make it work, maybe weekly delivery or every other day.

The Dems panic on this is related to mail voting it seems, but I don't see why we couldn't vote via private mail service if needed.
But who would deliver my junk mail?
 

Cruze

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The Dems panic on this is related to mail voting it seems, but I don't see why we couldn't vote via private mail service if needed.
I have no problem with a private mail service taking over delivey of the U.S. Mail. However, the private contractor is going to have to acquire and maintain a nationwide network of secure mail processing and delivery facilities in every state to ensure regular and reliable mail service to every address in America. The private contractor is also going to have to pay a LIVING WAGE to every one of their employee with full benefits. It goes without saying the Davis-Bacon Act which covers U.S. Government contractors will GUARANTEE that the contractor's employees are well taken care of.

The U.S. Government will also need to retain the U.S. Postal Inspection Service to watch over the private contractor and their employees every day in every possible way. We are going to need a Postal Inspector in the back pocket of every corporate executive of the private contractor to investigate and prosecute every suspected crime involving the U.S. Mail:
  1. Fraud: These types of investigation involve crimes that use the mails to facilitate fraud against consumers, business and government. Federal statutes that surround these types of investigations include, mail fraud, and other criminal statutes when they are tied to the mails such as bank fraud, identity theft, credit card fraud, wire fraud, and Internet/computer fraud. Mail fraud is a statute that is used in prosecuting many white collar crimes, this would include, Ponzi schemes, 419 frauds, and other white collar crimes where the mail was used to facilitate the fraud including public corruption (under the "Honest Services" provision of the federal fraud statutes). In the 1960s and 70s, inspectors under regional chief postal inspectors such as Martin McGee, known as "Mr. Mail Fraud," exposed and prosecuted numerous swindles involving land sales, phony advertising practices, insurance ripoffs and fraudulent charitable organizations using mail fraud charges.[6] McGee is credited with assisting in the conviction of former Illinois Governor Otto Kerner on mail fraud charges.[7]
  2. External Crime & Violent Crime Teams: The External Crimes Function of USPIS is a function that investigates any theft of US mail by non employees, assaults of postal employees and theft and robberies of postal property. This function also investigates robberies of postal employees and postal facilities, burglaries of postal facilities, and assaults and murders against postal employees. This investigative function focuses on ensuring that the sanctity and trust in the U.S. Mail system is maintained.
  3. Prohibited Mailing Investigations: Prohibited mailing investigations are USPIS investigations that focus on the prohibited mailing of contraband including: narcotics, precursors and proceeds; child pornography and other sexually prohibited materials; and hazardous materials to include, mail bombs, and nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. The laundering of narcotics and other criminal proceeds through the use of Postal Money Orders is sometimes categorized under this investigative function.
  4. Aviation and Homeland Security: USPIS investigations also include the securing and protecting of transportation of US Mail and any risk that might compromise the security of the homeland because of these mails. Security Audits are conducted by these teams to ensure that postal service maintains facilities secure from not only theft and robberies but also natural and manmade disasters.
  5. Revenue Investigations: USPIS investigates cases where fraudulent practices are conducted by business and consumers that mail items without proper postage or with counterfeit postage and indicia or crimes that defraud the USPS of revenue. Recently, however, they have indicated that they have little interest in pursuing producers of counterfeit stamps.[8]
  6. International Investigations and Global Security: This investigative function ensures that international mail is secured and any international business decisions and campaigns remains safe, and secure. USPIS maintains investigators in the US and in posts around the world for protection, liaison, and intelligence.
  7. Joint Task Force Investigations: USPIS participates in joint task force investigations where laws applicable to the mail service are involved. These cases are often wide ranging and involve every law enforcement agency of the Federal Government. For example, USPIS participated in the largest count indictment and conviction in NASA history, the Omniplan case, that put seven companies out of business and ended with the conviction of Omniplan owner, Ralph Montijo, on 179 federal crimes.[9][10]
 
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Veritas

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Post office asking for $50 Billion bailout. This will likely become a hot topic soon. FYI, FedEx entire market cap is ~$32B. UPS $69B.

This is a no brainer to me, let them fail. We don't need a post office anymore. Or let them find a way to make it work, maybe weekly delivery or every other day.

The Dems panic on this is related to mail voting it seems, but I don't see why we couldn't vote via private mail service if needed.
In 1962 I got a summer job at the US Post Office. By 1964 I was working full time at the PO while doing my senior year at high school. I had a total of 14 different part time or summer jobs before I finished my schooling. The PO remains the Gold Standard in my life for sloth, mismanagement and general inefficiency. They are eternally going broke because they eat money and finance the lowest work ethic I have ever seen. Many of their workers are good, honest workers and human beings, but many others simply do not work at all and are proud of it. Generally, the carriers are fair workers, half the clerks will work harder after they die. At the very, very least, six day a week delivery is silly and totally unneeded.
 

TruthSeeker

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that's not an answer, should be easy for someone so smart.
The short answer is "because." The long answer will result in wasting my time because it won't he satisfactory to your ideology. It'll go back and forth a few times, other people will mock you for being stupid, and then we're done.

Let's skip to the end. We know why you want it to go down. You don't care about the reasons why it probably shouldn't go down.
 

Veritas

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No good business person is that dumb. It’d be easier to start from scratch.

Seriously, it would require a lot of changes, especially with regards to the employees.
You would be bringing absolute poison into your company from day one.
 

stocker08

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Agree, but there are now USPS trucks delivering on Sundays. Which you never saw years ago.
Yeah. It seems like overkill for a service that it less and less utilized, yet still a necessity. I still do a double take when I see a USPS truck out on a Sunday.

An every other day approach to mail delivery seems like it would be a good way to reduce some costs.
 

stocker08

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The short answer is "because." The long answer will result in wasting my time because it won't he satisfactory to your ideology. It'll go back and forth a few times, other people will mock you for being stupid, and then we're done.

Let's skip to the end. We know why you want it to go down. You don't care about the reasons why it probably shouldn't go down.
Exactly.
 

Veritas

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So private businesses don't cheat, as they naturally do.

Hypothetical example, FedEx and UPS both say "we won't provide delivery service to the city of Minneapolis, until they lower their fees/tax" or whatever.
Have you ever "worked" at the US Post Office?
 

Section2

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The short answer is "because." The long answer will result in wasting my time because it won't he satisfactory to your ideology. It'll go back and forth a few times, other people will mock you for being stupid, and then we're done.

Let's skip to the end. We know why you want it to go down. You don't care about the reasons why it probably shouldn't go down.
about what I expected. FTR, I asked you a simple question about this statement, "the feds would NEED to mandate that they provide service to every address." It's not an ideological question at all. Why wouldn't UPS and Fedex do that voluntarily?
 

Section2

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I have no problem with a private mail service taking over delivey of the U.S. Mail. However, the private contractor is going to have to acquire and maintain a nationwide network of secure mail processing and delivery facilities in every state to ensure regular and reliable mail service to every address in America. The private contractor is also going to have to pay a LIVING WAGE to every one of their employee with full benefits. It goes without saying the Davis-Bacon Act which covers U.S. Government contractors will GUARANTEE that the contractor's employees are well taken care of.

The U.S. Government will also need to retain the U.S. Postal Inspection Service to watch over the private contractor and their employees every day in every possible way. We are going to need a Postal Inspector in the back pocket of every corporate executive of the private contractor to investigate and prosecute every suspected crime involving the U.S. Mail:
  1. Fraud: These types of investigation involve crimes that use the mails to facilitate fraud against consumers, business and government. Federal statutes that surround these types of investigations include, mail fraud, and other criminal statutes when they are tied to the mails such as bank fraud, identity theft, credit card fraud, wire fraud, and Internet/computer fraud. Mail fraud is a statute that is used in prosecuting many white collar crimes, this would include, Ponzi schemes, 419 frauds, and other white collar crimes where the mail was used to facilitate the fraud including public corruption (under the "Honest Services" provision of the federal fraud statutes). In the 1960s and 70s, inspectors under regional chief postal inspectors such as Martin McGee, known as "Mr. Mail Fraud," exposed and prosecuted numerous swindles involving land sales, phony advertising practices, insurance ripoffs and fraudulent charitable organizations using mail fraud charges.[6] McGee is credited with assisting in the conviction of former Illinois Governor Otto Kerner on mail fraud charges.[7]
  2. External Crime & Violent Crime Teams: The External Crimes Function of USPIS is a function that investigates any theft of US mail by non employees, assaults of postal employees and theft and robberies of postal property. This function also investigates robberies of postal employees and postal facilities, burglaries of postal facilities, and assaults and murders against postal employees. This investigative function focuses on ensuring that the sanctity and trust in the U.S. Mail system is maintained.
  3. Prohibited Mailing Investigations: Prohibited mailing investigations are USPIS investigations that focus on the prohibited mailing of contraband including: narcotics, precursors and proceeds; child pornography and other sexually prohibited materials; and hazardous materials to include, mail bombs, and nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. The laundering of narcotics and other criminal proceeds through the use of Postal Money Orders is sometimes categorized under this investigative function.
  4. Aviation and Homeland Security: USPIS investigations also include the securing and protecting of transportation of US Mail and any risk that might compromise the security of the homeland because of these mails. Security Audits are conducted by these teams to ensure that postal service maintains facilities secure from not only theft and robberies but also natural and manmade disasters.
  5. Revenue Investigations: USPIS investigates cases where fraudulent practices are conducted by business and consumers that mail items without proper postage or with counterfeit postage and indicia or crimes that defraud the USPS of revenue. Recently, however, they have indicated that they have little interest in pursuing producers of counterfeit stamps.[8]
  6. International Investigations and Global Security: This investigative function ensures that international mail is secured and any international business decisions and campaigns remains safe, and secure. USPIS maintains investigators in the US and in posts around the world for protection, liaison, and intelligence.
  7. Joint Task Force Investigations: USPIS participates in joint task force investigations where laws applicable to the mail service are involved. These cases are often wide ranging and involve every law enforcement agency of the Federal Government. For example, USPIS participated in the largest count indictment and conviction in NASA history, the Omniplan case, that put seven companies out of business and ended with the conviction of Omniplan owner, Ralph Montijo, on 179 federal crimes.[9][10]
no thanks, how about we just let USPS die rather than throw more than the total value of Fedex at them. And you get none of your wishlist items. I like that approach better.
 

Section2

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So private businesses don't cheat, as they naturally do.

Hypothetical example, FedEx and UPS both say "we won't provide delivery service to the city of Minneapolis, until they lower their fees/tax" or whatever.
currently the city of minneapolis has contracts with UPS and Fedex? Or do they contract with individuals to perform a service?
 
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