UNBELIEVABLE - POST GAME RANT THREAD!!!!

GhostofBronko

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It's games like this that you just can't help but think of how Fleck is just a rah rah guy and not an X's and O's guy, and when we just don't have talent on defense, how we're gonna even win a game or not.
We have enough history with PJ to know that he's not the type of man who is going to rest until he comes up with an new acronym or two that will fix these problems that we saw tonight.

RTB, Go Gophers. Also, HYPRR.
 

Face The Facts

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Looks like year one again
But the "pipeline" should be better recruiting wise.

If you care to hear me out.

2015 class
2015 was a gap. That class had a ton of attrition for various reasons. (their junior / sr seasons were 2017-2018). 2017 was bad. 2018 got decent, finshing strong second half of season relying heavily on 2016 class.

2016 class
2016 class became experienced in 2017-2018 and provides us a strong 2019 (especially defensively). Very few redshirted.

2017 class was the Claeys / PJ mixed class. We got Tanner, Mo, and CAB. Grade an A offensively, but not so great defensively. This is a bit of a gap in defensive talent who would be redshirt Juniors or Seniors now.

2018 class - went heavier on defense and jury is out. Oliver Hurt. Rush and Sori-Marin are playing. Teague playing. Reigelsperger gone.

2019 class
Nubin, Cheney (Redshirt Freshman), Schad (Sr), several other LB's and D-Lineman who will probably see time soon.

2020 class
Thought to be a strong class defensively. Cody Lindenberg starting as a pure freshman

2021 class
appears to be a strong defensive class as well on D-line.

In year zero or year one, we knew we had a decent 2016 class, but new 2017 wasn't a great class on short notice, especially with D-line talent which usually should be red-shirted.

Looking at classes 2018-2021 they all seem to be pretty solid defensively upfront, and so far I think we can trust PJ's offensive recruiting where that shouldn't be a concern.
 

CentralGopher

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Ugh. Defense can't stop anyone and they think they can run with the box full. 🤦‍♂️
 

USAF

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The wall Mo hit was Maryland stacking 9 in the box and the Gophs refusing to throw. Terrible coaching effort today.
Precisely.

And so obvious.

The defense sucks, but by now thats well known. And it'snot going to magically develop the tools to play much better. You HAVE to win by scoring. And when they sell out to stop the run, well, pass the GD ball. You have the tools to do that, too.

Farging idiotic.
 

GopherGangsta

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So you would be able to attract an even better coach by firing Fleck (at the Univ of Minnesota) after a 11-2 season, two games into his 4th season?
When they go 0-8 this season there will be plenty of rumbles.
 

Face The Facts

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Precisely.

And so obvious.

The defense sucks, but by now thats well known. And it'snot going to magically develop the tools to play much better. You HAVE to win by scoring. And when they sell out to stop the run, well, pass the GD ball. You have the tools to do that, too.

Farging idiotic.
I think what was frustrating with this game was fans watched it and knew it was going to be a Big 12 type football game.
Our coaching staff didn't identify that our defense was playing a Big 12 style, and we tried to win it Big 10 style.

You don't win Big 12 football games playing Big 10 style if your defense is Big 12 defense.
 

skauma

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On the subject of PJ not being an X's and O's guy...he simply isn't. He even admits it, usually followed by how he got an 18 on the ACT. PJ is passionate, and a relentless worker, but he can't call games. Get some better coordinator around you, PJ.
 

WorkingMyTailOff

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An emotional roller coaster. It finished the way it started for the defense, but the offensive play calling, the only chance they had to retain the lead was by moving the ball and at least scoring once, became Margaret Thatcher level conservative. Was anyone else hoping to see a play like last year against Indiana where they send Bateman deep on second and five for an attempted score (with 1:30 left)? They were lucky to see OT and then tempted fate by going to the kicking game one more time.
 

NewNoise

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It could be worse...The gophers could have scheduled NDSU and got their ass kicked. Although COVID would have saved them this year I guess.

But hey, hope PJ doesn't get poached by the SEC :) lol
 

EG#9

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We had "Beggars Night" here (something done in Iowa where kids to Trick or Treating the night before Halloween instead of on Halloween). I had the game recorded and was taking peeks at the score all night. It was 38-21 Gophers when I started watching the game from the beginning. I kept checking the actual score and went to live when the Gophers lead was cut to 38-31.

The first possession the Gophes had only up 7 was incredibly conservative and it ended with Tanner Morgan just FALLING DOWN on 3rd Down. They gave up the tying touchdown in humiliating fashion. They then had a chance to win the game with a FG and I was feeling good about that when they got the first down approaching midfield. The Gophers ran the clock and played extremely conservative from there. The 3rd and short play call with something like 1:20 left on the clock was the most inexcusable thing I saw all game (I saw Maryland get up 21-7 on delay). How do you run up the middle when given that look from Maryland? It was coaching malpractice. PJ is as much to blame for that as Sanford.

Since this is the RANT thread here it is: Part of me was worried that last year was a fluke. I posted it on the board a number of times and didn't see much agreement. When I saw media projecting the Gophers to do well again this season, I wondered if I was just being paranoid after decades of disappointment and the worst possible outcomes as a Gopher fan. Now it look like a very real possiblity that finding away to choke against Iowa AND Wisconsin to end the 2019 season will be the only chance at a Divison (much less Conference) title for a long time to come. It looks like last year was a fluke, that we were Northwestern winning the West or Michigan State winning the East...except that we didn't actually win the Division. How is Tanner Morgan this bad? Reputable people were calling him an NFL prospect and their was plenty of consensus that he'd had a great offseason. How did St. Juste and Durr go from good man to man corners in contention for All Big Ten to giving up big plays to Maryland? The other things you could see coming in a worst case scenario: NONE of the defenders stepping up to replace Coughlin, Renner, Barber (who I thought was a weak link last year), Martin, or Winfield. The OL taking a significant step back with Faalele and Dunlap out. The offense taking time to gel with Ciarrocca off to Penn State. Those were all questions coming in to the season, but it was unlikely they'd ALL end up being answered in the worst possible way.

From a great year last year to looking like there is NO light at the end of the tunnel for a long time. Is anyone excited for this offense next year with Bateman leaving given what they've seen from Morgan to date? The defense looks phsically incapable of playing B1G football beyond the obvious breakdowns that seem to happen on every play. That long running TD from Tua's brother where Rush and Sori-Marin got left in the dust on what should have been a tackle for loss? Embarrassing. The coaching sucked tonight in crucial situations (and Maryland's coach wasn't any better BTW). Those last two drives where Mo had no juice left in his legs and PJ and the staff seemed to be just hoping for a miracle that came with no risk (IE not putting the ball in the air) instead of trying to win the game. We haven't had a good gameday coach in my lifetime. Terrible decisions by Mason, Brewster, Kill, Claeys, Fleck. We give away so much by just not being competent with time/score decisions especially in late game scenarios for decades. We won despite some questionable decision making last year (and it came back to bite us against Iowa and Wisconsin) but that certainly won't be the case this year.

If this team doesn't go on some amazing streak that honestly feels impossible right now, all momentum for this program is gone before fans have a chance to be in TCF again. The worst case scenario just keeps happening to Gopher fans.
 

Seany

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Other than wasting timeouts, this is my biggest complaint of Fleck- he gets a lead and turns into his shell. The offense turns from “win the game” to “try and not lose the game” if they have a lead in the 4th quarter. The play calling goes super conservative, and other coaches should be able to play against this pretty easily (as seen tonight).

It's the offensive version of the 'prevent defense'. I can't fricken stand that. Clearly, our playcalling telegraphs the fact to our opponent that we are in straight bleed the clock mode (and with an entire quarter+ of football left to go, no less!), and so entirely predictably they stack the box in order to shut down the run, and rather than try to exploit that mismatch by throwing every once in awhile with these primo wideouts, we just continue to play right into the defense' hands. I don't know whether that's stubborness or what. Maybe our staff believes that we can just continue to successfully run against a defense stacked against such, but it is really dumb and it is really irritating. Take what the fricken defense gives you.
 

skiumah1

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MD rarely pressured Morgan and #24 had to be worn out.
The MN offense has an accurate passing QB and two gifted WRs who played well the whole game.
It was obvious the MN defense was not up to the task and MN needed to put more points on the board in the 4th quarter.
Running the ball was not going to do it.
100%
 

Face The Facts

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Wanna bet?
I'm not a betting man, but I think this team has potential to outscore a lot of teams.

It's basically a bet on whether the defense can find a few solid players by end of year to put together a moderate performance.

Seems after football games, you're never as great as you think after a big win, and never quite as bad after a horrible loss.

Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska.
Seems like an overreaction that we'll straight out lose to all of them not knowing what will happen to those teams this year.
 

Ewert86PC

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So you would be able to attract an even better coach by firing Fleck (at the Univ of Minnesota) after a 11-2 season, two games into his 4th season?
Yes, because the message it communicates is that we have standards. We don't tolerate regression to the mean. If you come in here and talk about raising expectations and not going back to old, bad habits, then find your program mired in those same habits, you have either had smoke blown up your keister or been out and out lied to. You've committed to tightening up your standards and even if the person who convinced you to tighten them, you stick to them and cut that person loose. Not doing some and you are a masochistic patsy with no standards.
 

GopherGangsta

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We had "Beggars Night" here (something done in Iowa where kids to Trick or Treating the night before Halloween instead of on Halloween). I had the game recorded and was taking peeks at the score all night. It was 38-21 Gophers when I started watching the game from the beginning. I kept checking the actual score and went to live when the Gophers lead was cut to 38-31.

The first possession the Gophes had only up 7 was incredibly conservative and it ended with Tanner Morgan just FALLING DOWN on 3rd Down. They gave up the tying touchdown in humiliating fashion. They then had a chance to win the game with a FG and I was feeling good about that when they got the first down approaching midfield. The Gophers ran the clock and played extremely conservative from there. The 3rd and short play call with something like 1:20 left on the clock was the most inexcusable thing I saw all game (I saw Maryland get up 21-7 on delay). How do you run up the middle when given that look from Maryland? It was coaching malpractice. PJ is as much to blame for that as Sanford.

Since this is the RANT thread here it is: Part of me was worried that last year was a fluke. I posted it on the board a number of times and didn't see much agreement. When I saw media projecting the Gophers to do well again this season, I wondered if I was just being paranoid after decades of disappointment and the worst possible outcomes as a Gopher fan. Now it look like a very real possiblity that finding away to choke against Iowa AND Wisconsin to end the 2019 season will be the only chance at a Divison (much less Conference) title for a long time to come. It looks like last year was a fluke, that we were Northwestern winning the West or Michigan State winning the East...except that we didn't actually win the Division. How is Tanner Morgan this bad? Reputable people were calling him an NFL prospect and their was plenty of consensus that he'd had a great offseason. How did St. Juste and Durr go from good man to man corners in contention for All Big Ten to giving up big plays to Maryland? The other things you could see coming in a worst case scenario: NONE of the defenders stepping up to replace Coughlin, Renner, Barber (who I thought was a weak link last year), Martin, or Winfield. The OL taking a significant step back with Faalele and Dunlap out. The offense taking time to gel with Ciarrocca off to Penn State. Those were all questions coming in to the season, but it was unlikely they'd ALL end up being answered in the worst possible way.

From a great year last year to looking like there is NO light at the end of the tunnel for a long time. Is anyone excited for this offense next year with Bateman leaving given what they've seen from Morgan to date? The defense looks phsically incapable of playing B1G football beyond the obvious breakdowns that seem to happen on every play. That long running TD from Tua's brother where Rush and Sori-Marin got left in the dust on what should have been a tackle for loss? Embarrassing. The coaching sucked tonight in crucial situations (and Maryland's coach wasn't any better BTW). Those last two drives where Mo had no juice left in his legs and PJ and the staff seemed to be just hoping for a miracle that came with no risk (IE not putting the ball in the air) instead of trying to win the game. We haven't had a good gameday coach in my lifetime. Terrible decisions by Mason, Brewster, Kill, Claeys, Fleck. We give away so much by just not being competent with time/score decisions especially in late game scenarios for decades. We won despite some questionable decision making last year (and it came back to bite us against Iowa and Wisconsin) but that certainly won't be the case this year.

If this team doesn't go on some amazing streak that honestly feels impossible right now, all momentum for this program is gone before fans have a chance to be in TCF again. The worst case scenario just keeps happening to Gopher fans.
This is an 0-8/1-7 season....If they stink next year too, there will be a Fire PJ sentiment among fans and media....I really thought the program had turned a corner but I felt like that in 2003 too.
 

Block M

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This Gopher team is flipping horrible. Both coordinators, particularly the OC, have stunk it up. The defense cant be fixed this year. Thankfully no one has to witness it in person.
 

Face The Facts

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Yes, because the message it communicates is that we have standards. We don't tolerate regression to the mean. If you come in here and talk about raising expectations and not going back to old, bad habits, then find your program mired in those same habits, you have either had smoke blown up your keister or been out and out lied to. You've committed to tightening up your standards and even if the person who convinced you to tighten them, you stick to them and cut that person loose. Not doing some and you are a masochistic patsy with no standards.
You realize COVID is going on right now?
 

skiumah1

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I mean these coaches can blame COVID all they want yada yada. But this is year 4 and nobody from the defense is really affected by COVID. That is the defense we were gonna throw out there this year COVID or not! That is not what a year 4 defense is supposed to look like if the goal is to be a good defense. I don't think a defense is supposed to look like that in year 1.

At this point I think you just play shootouts Big 12 style and see if you can outscore teams. Let Morgan throw the ball to Bateman and Autman Bell. Please don't have 50 rushing attempts vs. 15 passes in another game this year.

I'm not firing PJ or anywhere close to thinking about that, but I would like to think he's going to start conveying a little stronger message to his OC and DC going forward.
 

3399

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Please don't say anything negative about PJ Fleck. It hurts my feelings.
 

Breakin' The Plane

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Players Fleck would not shut up about over
the past year: Willis, Gordon IV. Nubin, Wiley.

Nothing in common there.
 

NewNoise

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Hey, not everyone can take Maryland down to the wire in overtime...
Seriously...not everyone. Just Minnesota.
SEC schools probably on the phone right now with PJ asking how he did it.
He'll be gone to bigger and better pay days, sorry!
 

Face The Facts

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I mean these coaches can blame COVID all they want yada yada. But this is year 4 and nobody from the defense is really affected by COVID. That is the defense we were gonna throw out there this year COVID or not! That is not what a year 4 defense is supposed to look like if the goal is to be a good defense. I don't think a defense is supposed to look like that in year 1.

At this point I think you just play shootouts Big 12 style and see if you can outscore teams. Let Morgan throw the ball to Bateman and Autman Bell. Please don't have 50 rushing attempts vs. 15 passes in another game this year.

I'm not firing PJ or anywhere close to thinking about that, but I would like to think he's going to start conveying a little stronger message to his OC and DC going forward.
I'm not using COVID to defend the team performance.

I'm saying it's a ridiculous and insane idea that firing a coach after an 11-2 season is something you could do and land a better coach while the University is suffering from COVID and the financial stresses of that.

The person who suggests that is obviously ill-informed or just trying to be stupid.
 

Johnnyboy18

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Maryland had 8 guys in the box and the Gophers had Bateman 1 on 1 on 3rd and 4 and they ran up the middle....
 
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