Trumps Taxes

justthefacts

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The fact that the journalist claims “he has lost chunks of his fortune even before depreciation is figured in” tells me all I need to know about the journalist. Depreciation helps investors, you don’t lose chunks of your assets because of it. We have journalists who are writing about things they don’t understand, which was always going to be the case.
The point is, he's not just showing paper losses on his taxes because of depreciation, he's experiencing actual real world losses on the P&L. It may be slightly oddly worded, but that's clearly what's happening.

I'll also point out that all the, "is he rich or not stuff" has some merit, but there are also like 4 overt cases of tax evasion in the story.

Also, people should read this thread:

 

justthefacts

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One other thing I'd point out that may actually be the most important issue in the race. Any claims that rich people already pay too much in taxes is going to ring a little hollow for someone making 25k who paid more than Trump did in 2016 and 2017.

The knee-jerk Trumpkin response only digs this hole deeper. "Oh, don't worry guys, Dear Leader is actually really, really rich, and everything he's doing to completely avoid federal income taxes is totally legit and very legal." Then Trump is going to turn around and tell people that you can't elect Biden because he'll raise taxes.
 
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Bad Gopher

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The point is, he's not just showing paper losses on his taxes because of depreciation, he's experiencing actual real world losses on the P&L. It may be slightly oddly worded, but that's clearly what's happening.

I'll also point out that all the, "is he rich or not stuff" has some merit, but there are also like 4 overt cases of tax evasion in the story.

Also, people should read this thread:

The deeper you dig, the worse it gets. The debt is out of control and due soon. The part we don't know is how much has been stolen from the people these past four years. But it does explain the motive behind the theft we've seen anecdotally, such as the piracy and sale of PPE and medical equipment from the national stockpile. It's not theft for the sake of theft but instead stealing to pay debts.
 
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Section2

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Why doesn't he just release them, and settle this once and for all?

I mean, if these are just lies from the NYT, it should be easy to make them eat crow.

But that's not even a thought for them...or you, now is it?

Why is that, ya suppose?
There is no outcome in the release of taxes that would not result on the same attacks we are seeing. The NYT isn’t claiming there is anything illegal or unethical in there. And everyone is simply guessing what his net worth or debt load might be, it’s not in there.
 

RememberMurray

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One other thing I'd point out that may actually be the most important issue in the race. Any claims that rich people already pay too much in taxes is going to ring a little hollow for someone making 25k who paid more than Trump did in 2016 and 2017.
The claim that the rich pay too much in taxes has always been bulls****.

The people who actually believe that crap are financially illiterate, and/or extremely naive.

Again, the Trumplings will be filled with even more admiration for their orange god when they read the NYT revelations. He's their hero precisely because he's a liar, a cheat and a scam artist-con man. And he "owns the libs" as well.
 

Section2

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One other thing I'd point out that may actually be the most important issue in the race. Any claims that rich people already pay too much in taxes is going to ring a little hollow for someone making 25k who paid more than Trump did in 2016 and 2017.
Yes, to really stupid people. Trump didn’t pay 0 in taxes because of low rates.
 

Section2

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The claim that the rich pay too much in taxes has always been bulls****.

The people who actually believe that crap are financially illiterate, and/or extremely naive.

Again, the Trumplings will be filled with even more admiration for their orange god when they read the NYT revelations. He's their hero precisely because he's a liar, a cheat and a scam artist-con man. And he "owns the libs" as well.
Billionaires don’t pay too much in taxes. Most “rich” people DO.
 

justthefacts

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There is no outcome in the release of taxes that would not result on the same attacks we are seeing. The NYT isn’t claiming there is anything illegal or unethical in there. And everyone is simply guessing what his net worth or debt load might be, it’s not in there.
Yes, they are actually. It's quite clear you haven't actually read the story. That's fine, but then don't come on here talking about what NYT is and isn't claiming.

I posted early in the thread that Trump was paying Ivanka as a consultant for work she was doing as an executive of the company. That's illegal.

He also was calling Seven Springs an investment property while not actually renting it out and living in it. That's illegal.



Also this about Seven Springs



There are also massive conflicts of interest reported in the story. These are not illegal, but you would be absolutely outraged if it was Hillary or Biden or Obama or Paul Wellstone.
 

USAF

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There is no outcome in the release of taxes that would not result on the same attacks we are seeing. The NYT isn’t claiming there is anything illegal or unethical in there. And everyone is simply guessing what his net worth or debt load might be, it’s not in there.
LOL. Trump is claiming the story is false.

Well, that's easy to prove, Donny. Release the returns, and show the NYT is lying.

 

USAF

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Yes, they are actually. It's quite clear you haven't actually read the story. That's fine, but then don't come on here talking about what NYT is and isn't claiming.

I posted early in the thread that Trump was paying Ivanka as a consultant for work she was doing as an executive of the company. That's illegal.

He also was calling Seven Springs an investment property while not actually renting it out and living in it. That's illegal.



Also this about Seven Springs



There are also massive conflicts of interest reported in the story. These are not illegal, but you would be absolutely outraged if it was Hillary or Biden or Obama or Paul Wellstone.
Trump was outraged because Obama PAID ONLY $150,000 IN TAXES.
 

cjbfbp

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Not the primary purchase, but leasehold improvements and retail improvements qualify. And this was increased from 50% to 100% in the Trump tax cuts. Coincidence I'm sure.

And without that, the idea that he's only showing a showing a loss due to generous depreciation laws is moot.
Yes, the improvements are an exception and I'm sure that wasn't a coincidence.
 

cjbfbp

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The IRS isn't a cauldron of great thinkers in my experience - you make much more in the private sector. And A good aggressive tax attorney can fin ways to move around the numbers - and if you don't think those guys can be unethical, then you don't know much about lawyers. Gee, I wonder if Trump's tax attorney might be shady? It's a rhetorical question BTW,
Not only that, Republicans have been gutting the IRS for years and have severely hampered their ability for enforcement, particularly against those who can afford pricey lawyers. That's often why they have opted to go after low hanging fruit (less wealthy taxpayers with errors that are more easily proven).
 

cjbfbp

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The fact that the journalist claims “he has lost chunks of his fortune even before depreciation is figured in” tells me all I need to know about the journalist. Depreciation helps investors, you don’t lose chunks of your assets because of it. We have journalists who are writing about things they don’t understand, which was always going to be the case.
That's not what that says. The claim was that Trump was experiencing significant cash flow losses from multiple properties even before considering depreciation expense. Look, the NYT isn't a rinky dink outfit. You can be sure that they have financial consultants to help the reporters understand technical points. Furthermore, even those who understand the technical points can't go into too much technical detail in an article meant for general consumption.
 

GoodasGold

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The claim that the rich pay too much in taxes has always been bulls****.

The people who actually believe that crap are financially illiterate, and/or extremely naive.

Again, the Trumplings will be filled with even more admiration for their orange god when they read the NYT revelations. He's their hero precisely because he's a liar, a cheat and a scam artist-con man. And he "owns the libs" as well.
Not only do they pay too much tax, they are also deprived of campaign funds. Ask Lady G!
 

TruthSeeker

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There is no outcome in the release of taxes that would not result on the same attacks we are seeing. The NYT isn’t claiming there is anything illegal or unethical in there. And everyone is simply guessing what his net worth or debt load might be, it’s not in there.
The NYT is absolutely pointing to illegal and unethical activity.
 

bga1

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Here is a good summary of what the NYT found:
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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That's not what that says. The claim was that Trump was experiencing significant cash flow losses from multiple properties even before considering depreciation expense. Look, the NYT isn't a rinky dink outfit. You can be sure that they have financial consultants to help the reporters understand technical points. Furthermore, even those who understand the technical points can't go into too much technical detail in an article meant for general consumption.
The biggest parts of his portfolio are in real estate, travel and leisure which are getting hammered now with the virus.

Heaven Can Wait was too busy waiting for the cattle cars to show up and didn't notice the above monetary issues.
 

bga1

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Yes, they are actually. It's quite clear you haven't actually read the story. That's fine, but then don't come on here talking about what NYT is and isn't claiming.

I posted early in the thread that Trump was paying Ivanka as a consultant for work she was doing as an executive of the company. That's illegal.

He also was calling Seven Springs an investment property while not actually renting it out and living in it. That's illegal.



Also this about Seven Springs



There are also massive conflicts of interest reported in the story. These are not illegal, but you would be absolutely outraged if it was Hillary or Biden or Obama or Paul Wellstone.
You make it sound so ghastly! Trump did this and..it's illegal! No, you ninny. Trump reported his business activities to the IRS, that's how you know about them. His accountants interpreted the laws the most favorable way they can on behalf of their client and used that treatment for those activities.
If the IRS disagrees on the treatment of those activities, then Trump will have to pay a different tax amount. It's not illegal, it's not fraud and it is not even Trump. Do you think that Trump is sitting there doing his taxes? How dishonest are you?

Here is something really dishonest. The VP of the United States takes his son on 29 secret service accompanied trips where the son gets paid off by foreign companies and enriches the VPs family.
Now that is indeed quite dirty. You probably hadn't heard. Where's Hunter?

Here is something illegal- The New York Times received illegally leaked information about a private citizen's taxes. Why is it that Assange is in jail and the NYT writers are not?
 
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Section2

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I have to hand it to S2. His conversion to full-on Trump shill is complete.
I’ve said from the beginning, I doubt Trump is worth anywhere near as much as he claims. Real estate valuations are all on paper, and most are illiquid. It’s impossible to know for sure how much he’s really “worth”. Tax avoidance and accounting present a different picture than what may be true.
Anyway, have been consistent on this story from day one, so where is the evolution?
 

jamiche

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I'm less interested donald's non tax payments than the fact that he's broke. Clearly there is some fraud going on in his filings, but most of it is hyper aggressive and hyper creative accounting serving a guy who is in branding and real estate, two businesses that allow for those kind of accounting practices.

More importantly, the evidence strongly indicates donald is living on borrowed dollars and borrowed time. Not even his skanky Russian and "'stan" lenders are going to line up to refinance his properties that are bleeding real cash, especially when there is nothing to back up his personal guaranty.

There is a way out of all of this for him, but he has too much hubris and narcissism to take it. In exchange for resigning before the election, he has to negotiate a pardon from the US Attorney in Manhattan. He also has to negotiate a commitment for pardons from the winner of a Biden/Pence election. (The pardon should include his entire family--yes, even Don Jr.) Secondly, he has huge post presidential earning power. The donald numb nuts can't take their eyes off of him, so he should be able to negotiate huge deals with Fox or One America. Or get backing for his own network. (The pardon agreements would have to include language about no incitement.) The book and movie deals would also be huge. Finally, he would have to learn to live like a $100 millionaire and not a billionaire. Maybe netjet instead of his own plane. Maybe three houses instead of ten. Maybe Eric and Don Jr. get real jobs.

I don't think any of it happens because he's a greedy pig. That doesn't mean it shouldn't.
 

jamiche

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You make it sound so ghastly! Trump did this and..it's illegal! No, you ninny. Trump reported his business activities to the IRS, that's how you know about them. His accountants interpreted the laws the most favorable way they can on behalf of their client and used that treatment for those activities.
If the IRS disagrees on the treatment of those activities, then Trump will have to pay a different tax amount. It's not illegal, it's not fraud and it is not even Trump. Do you think that Trump is sitting there doing his taxes? How dishonest are you?

Here is something really dishonest. The VP of the United States takes his son on 29 secret service accompanied trips where the son gets paid off by foreign companies and enriches the VPs family.
Now that is indeed quite dirty. You probably hadn't heard. Where's Hunter?
Donald signed his tax returns, humble beggar.
 

bga1

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I’ve said from the beginning, I doubt Trump is worth anywhere near as much as he claims. Real estate valuations are all on paper, and most are illiquid. It’s impossible to know for sure how much he’s really “worth”. Tax avoidance and accounting present a different picture than what may be true.
Anyway, have been consistent on this story from day one, so where is the evolution?
Assets that are relatively illiquid are still assets and part of net worth. While Trump's net worth is debatable and unknowable, it is also irrelevant. One thing we do know: Banks loan him a ton of money and they would not do that unless they thought that they were covered on their risk. Trump is very rich. How rich? Who cares other than TDS people?

Jake is the shill and a dishonest one at that. He presents himself as the omniscient referee. Yet he so obviously has a side.....
 
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