Trump Wants $850 Billion in Stimulus with an Airlines Bailout

jamiche

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Sure. As soon as we resolve how the GOP has become the party of stimulus after uniformly bashing the stimulus bill for a decade. I wonder what changed?
The GOP found Stimulus Jesus! Amen! Too funny. I think the Dems should hold out for a $500B tax cut as a part of the package.
 


John Galt

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Boeing fails. Part manufacturers go belly up. Millions unemployed.

That'd be the argument.
Yes - thank you. The cumulative effect of the entire airline industry going bankrupt would be far greater than a single car company.
 




Bad Gopher

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Other than saving the country, the financial system and the western world, you may have a point, galty.
Saving the country, the financial system, and the western world is a thankless job.
 


Section2

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Word. Giving money to rich friends won't save the economy. But this is what you do when you don't care about saving the economy but instead want to use a crisis to loot the U.S. Treasury.
Under no circumstances should we give a penny to LV
 

GopherJake

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Because Boeing is already dealing with the 737 Max fallout and has exhausted their credit facilities.
Interesting. This is an honest conversation. So, wouldn’t we be able to decide that later? Why do they need money now?
 






John Galt

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Interesting. This is an honest conversation. So, wouldn’t we be able to decide that later? Why do they need money now?
I don't know Boeing's exact financial situation and am not advocating that they get money at all, yet alone now. My point is that the repercussions of letting the airlines and Boeing fail would impact far more workers than GM. I don't know how someone would support a bailout of GM but not the airlines and Boeing.
 



John Galt

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Saving the country, the financial system, and the western world is a thankless job.
Just wait until Trump rides in on a white horse as the person who slew the coronavirus... I mean, Chinese Virus.
 

GopherJake

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I don't know Boeing's exact financial situation and am not advocating that they get money at all, yet alone now. My point is that the repercussions of letting the airlines and Boeing fail would impact far more workers than GM. I don't know how someone would support a bailout of GM but not the airlines and Boeing.
GM was on the precipice of catastrophic failure. Boeing may be in trouble due to 737 Max. But they aren’t the entire airline industry. They make airplanes. But American airline companies will continue to exist, Boeing or no Boeing. The industry is not going to implode in two months. When this is over, people will fly again and the airlines will go back to shafting us out of square inches and money.

At this point, I don’t think the situations are very similar.
 
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jamiche

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The lack of government oversight of the financial industry and the ratings industry in 2008 had the same outcome, shutting down businesses. I don't understand what our new progressive brothers were thinking in 2009 when they were so opposed to the Obama stimulus and successfully managed to get it very watered down through their repub reps. Now they want to put a grand in the hand of every 'murican. I'm happy to have you puppy progressives on board. We'll train you.

My guess is by the time this bailout is finished it will look similar to the 2017 tax cut. Trump's friends in corporate America will be well rewarded. Next will come the folks in the red states. The folks in the blue states will be told to handle it themselves.
 

MplsGopher

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Sure, in broad terms. I would try to figure out a way to get money into the hands of low-income/hourly wage earners in a form that allows use for staples and rent.
I say all rent, mortgage, and utility payments should be suspended during the crises.

Both personal and commercial. That might help keep shuttered businesses from going under, at least.
 

MplsGopher

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GM was in the precipice of catastrophic failure. Boeing may be in trouble due to 737 Max. But they aren’t the entire airline industry. They make airplanes. But American airline companies will continue to exist, Boeing or no Boeing. The industry is not going to implode in two months. When this is over, people will fly again and the airlines will go back to shafting us out of square inches and money.

At this point, I don’t think the situations are very similar.
Even if Boeing went under, it would be allowed to (and would) reorganize under a new name/brand, and continue making airplanes. That's just a given.

Once we get back to normal, Airbus alone can't satisfy demand for medium and long haulers.

There are actually a few companies that are doing or getting into short haulers. Embraer, Bombardier, but also Mitsubishi, as well as Russian and Chinese state companies.

But these companies are simply incapable of ramping up to design and build medium and long haulers. There are only two companies in the world that can do it, Airbus and currently Boeing.
 
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Bad Gopher

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Just wait until Trump rides in on a white horse as the person who slew the coronavirus... I mean, Chinese Virus.
I wouldn't put it past him to claim credit for the work of white blood cells.
 

Cruze

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I don't know Boeing's exact financial situation and am not advocating that they get money at all, yet alone now. My point is that the repercussions of letting the airlines and Boeing fail would impact far more workers than GM. I don't know how someone would support a bailout of GM but not the airlines and Boeing.

As the second largest defense contractor in the U.S., Boeing is going to get bailed out no matter what happens to their competitors in the airline industry.
 


cncmin

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Republicans didn't give it to Obama in 2009. It they approve it, then you'll all know it wasn't based principle but about trying to hurt a democratic president. This will prove whether the GOP is a bunch of hypocritical Keynesians or not. Like McConnell said, he wanted to make Obama a one-term president, not help the country.
Yes, and I recently posted similar sentiment in the Great Depression thread. We have now proven beyond a shred of doubt that the GOP tactics were political, only, while Obama was President. Not that those tactics weren't obvious at the time, given past GOP precedent under, e.g., Reagan, Clinton, and Bush Jr.
 

John Galt

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GM was on the precipice of catastrophic failure. Boeing may be in trouble due to 737 Max. But they aren’t the entire airline industry. They make airplanes. But American airline companies will continue to exist, Boeing or no Boeing. The industry is not going to implode in two months. When this is over, people will fly again and the airlines will go back to shafting us out of square inches and money.

At this point, I don’t think the situations are very similar.
Cars are a commodity. GM is one of dozens of global car companies and everyone could easily find a substitute if there was never another GM vehicle made. Boeing and Airbus are the only 2 companies in the world that can make a commercial sized airplane.
 

cncmin

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If they send everyone checks, is it every man, woman, and child? Can't be, right?

When people do get checks, don't save them. It will honestly be your civil duty to go out and spend that money.
Yes, but spend it where? I want to spend it where the businesses are struggling, not on Amazon and Walmart Online.
 

John Galt

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Yes, and I recently posted similar sentiment in the Great Depression thread. We have now proven beyond a shred of doubt that the GOP tactics were political, only, while Obama was President. Not that those tactics weren't obvious at the time, given past GOP precedent under, e.g., Reagan, Clinton, and Bush Jr.
What tactics are political?
 

cncmin

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If this is a "stimulus" it's a terrible idea. We don't need Keynesian economics right now. What people need is relief. Millions just suddenly got thrown out of work and will lose their businesses. They just need cash for a couple months, or however long the quarantine lasts. Let's just send people cash.
What is the difference between a "stimulus" and "relief"? Please define.
 



cncmin

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We've now sh

See my posts describing the massive differences.
Galty, I'll have to look back through the thread to see what you're talking about. I've skipped a bunch.
 

John Galt

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Galty, I'll have to look back through the thread to see what you're talking about. I've skipped a bunch.
I'll summarize: there is a significant difference between bailing out a single car company that couldn't make it through a recession vs. small businesses that have been forced to shut down or the entire airline industry.
 




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