Trump Stands With Saudis Despite Khashoggi Killing

bottlebass

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In Pence's case, probably. But no, any other President wouldn't have said what Trump did.
Yeah I"m not saying any other president would have said what trump said, but all other presidents would have stood by SA without even blinking an eye.
 

bga1

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It is to Trump's great credit that he actually just told the truth to the public. He said it was horrid what was done and that the Saudi's may or may not have done it but he is protecting American interests. No BS. I like it.
 

bottlebass

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It is to Trump's great credit that he actually just told the truth to the public. He said it was horrid what was done and that the Saudi's may or may not have done it but he is protecting American interests. No BS. I like it.
:rolleyes: What a ridiculously stupid post.
 

jamiche

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It is to Trump's great credit that he actually just told the truth to the public. He said it was horrid what was done and that the Saudi's may or may not have done it but he is protecting American interests. No BS. I like it.
The sun may or may not rise from the east tomorrow morning.

Tomorrow may or may not be Thanksgiving.

Neil Armstrong may or may not have landed on the moon.

You may or may not be full of sh&t, humble beggar.
 

diehard

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The sun may or may not rise from the east tomorrow morning.

Tomorrow may or may not be Thanksgiving.

Neil Armstrong may or may not have landed on the moon.

You may or may not be full of sh&t, humble beggar.
But you fully approve of Hillary's hit squads taking out anyone who threatens her. A million abortions a year here in the US. Heavily disproportionate Black and Brown. Your own Holocausts. Racist Holocausts.
 

Angry

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But you fully approve of Hillary's hit squads taking out anyone who threatens her. A million abortions a year here in the US. Heavily disproportionate Black and Brown. Your own Holocausts. Racist Holocausts.
Yup, that’s how you lower their representation in the electorate. White liberals are the most racist people on earth.
 

GoodasGold

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It is to Trump's great credit that he actually just told the truth to the public. He said it was horrid what was done and that the Saudi's may or may not have done it but he is protecting American interests. No BS. I like it.
Do you love him enough to go visit him when he’s in prison:confused:
 

cncmin

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He needs the Saudi's to continue to go after Iran. There is nothing the Saudi's could do wrong that would be big enough to ruin the relationship.
It's probably as much that the Saudis finance Trump and his family - personal wealth - more than anything else.
 

Bad Gopher

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It's probably as much that the Saudis finance Trump and his family - personal wealth - more than anything else.
For those who haven't been paying attention, this is the Trump Doctrine.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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The Saudis killed a Muslim Brotherhood operative & the left wants to reshape our entire ME policy because of it. If it wasn't actually happening, it would sound preposterous to any sane person.

I'm not even going to get into how silly the Khashoggi as humble, American "journalist", with the courage to challenge the Saudi system, is, in this post.

I'll just say this: There's nothing we know about Saudi Arabia after the Khashoggi murder, that we didn't know 2 years ago, or 20 years ago. Nothing has changed, except we now have a POTUS who's more blunt and straight forward. I for one, appreciate the truth, even when it's not what I want to hear.

It doesn't get any more progressive or liberal, than Glenn Greenwald and he has a great piece on this that the left leaners should read.

"Donald Trump on Tuesday issued a statement proclaiming that, notwithstanding the anger toward the Saudi Crown Prince over the gruesome murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, “the United States intends to remain a steadfast partner of Saudi Arabia to ensure the interests of our country, Israel and all other partners in the region.” To justify his decision, Trump cited the fact that “Saudi Arabia is the largest oil producing nation in the world” and claimed that “of the $450 billion [the Saudis plan to spend with U.S. companies], $110 billion will be spent on the purchase of military equipment from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and many other great U.S. defense contractors.”

This statement instantly and predictably produced pompous denunciations pretending that Trump’s posture was a deviation from, a grievous violation of, long-standing U.S. values and foreign policy rather than what it actually and obviously is: a perfect example – perhaps stated a little more bluntly and candidly than usual – of how the U.S. has conducted itself in the world since at least the end of World War II.

The reaction was so intense because the fairy tale about the U.S. standing up for freedom and human rights in the world is one of the most pervasive and powerful prongs of western propaganda, the one relied upon by U.S. political and media elites to convince not just the U.S. population but also themselves of their own righteousness, even as they spend decades lavishing the world’s worst tyrants and despots with weapons, money, intelligence and diplomatic protection to carry out atrocities of historic proportions."


Read More:
Trump’s Amoral Saudi Statement Is a Pure Expression of Decades-Old “U.S. Values” and Foreign Policy Orthodoxies
https://theintercept.com/2018/11/21/trumps-amoral-saudi-statement-is-a-pure-and-honest-expression-of-decades-old-u-s-values-and-foreign-policy-orthodoxies/
 

diehard

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The Saudis, maybe in a bit it will become the Somalians, are the new Russians. Cinnamint's bizarre ignorance is increasing by the moment. Fail after fail. That's what losers do other than convert forklifts into time machines.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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How is this America First? Serious question.

I know where Trump is coming from: self interest and reflexive criminality. I struggle to understand how his cult members construe these actions as being in the best interest of the country or even how they're remotely consistent with the themes the guy campaigned on, which included anti-Islam fervor/hate.
I was going to answer this, but I erased my post because "no" it's not a "serious question". It's a low grade troll. Your choice of words: "reflexive criminality", "cult members" & campaigning on "anti-Islam hate", make that perfectly clear. None of that is accurate or true.

I'm not saying this to insult you. I'm really not. There was a time you came off as one of the most intelligent posters here, asking valid questions, offering different opinions & what really made your takes valuable was that you didn't parrot the corporate media. Thats's all gone now. You've regressed so badly that your only contributions are as a troll & a flamethrower. Maybe that's your goal? Maybe you just gave up on having intelligent debates? If that's the case, carry on. If not, I hope you can step back & do some self reflection.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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But what if Khashoggi was a socialist? It's possible that he said something negative about Drumpf. Was he a democrat?

All stupid reasons for drump to ignore this. Clearly putting his own financial interests as the most important thing. Sad. And we have a bunch of drump cheerleaders here that excuse this away.

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What's sad, is I think you might actually have convinced yourself this is true.

The truth is Trump will continue our relationship with Saudi Arabia, as every POTUS of our lifetimes and before have, because of the obvious implications. Money, arms, oil, Iran, Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, ISIS, Al Queda, etc.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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He needs the Saudi's to continue to go after Iran. There is nothing the Saudi's could do wrong that would be big enough to ruin the relationship.
Pretty much.

For context though, there's nothing the Saudis could do to ruin the relationship, with any POTUS. The Saudis were lopping off heads, stoning women to death and funding terrorism under Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, JFK, etc. etc. None of them had any inclination of ending that relationships either.

As you point out, SA is critical to the Trump foreign policy goal of neutering the Iranian government, but also to stopping the Muslim Brotherhood from taking leadership of the ME (Turkey/Egypt/Qatar) & creating peace between Israel & the Arabs/Muslims.
 

bottlebass

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Pretty much.

For context though, there's nothing the Saudis could do to ruin the relationship, with any POTUS. The Saudis were lopping off heads, stoning women to death and funding terrorism under Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, JFK, etc. etc. None of them had any inclination of ending that relationships either.

As you point out, SA is critical to the Trump foreign policy goal of neutering the Iranian government, but also to stopping the Muslim Brotherhood from taking leadership of the ME (Turkey/Egypt/Qatar) & creating peace between Israel & the Arabs/Muslims.
I said this too.

As far as Trumps foreign policy goal I think it has more to do with the MIC than Trump. I think Trump's own family financial ties to SA influence trump more than his own foreign policy goals.
 

cncmin

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What's sad, is I think you might actually have convinced yourself this is true.

The truth is Trump will continue our relationship with Saudi Arabia, as every POTUS of our lifetimes and before have, because of the obvious implications. Money, arms, oil, Iran, Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, ISIS, Al Queda, etc.
You honestly believe Trump cares more about the country than himself. Why?
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Oil too.

Bottle, I know you'll agree with me on this. Saudi Arabia does this crap all of the time and nobody makes a peep. One journalist/person and thats supposed to end our relationship with SA? Should have happened a long time ago. Trump is showing our hypocrisy right out in the open, unlike our past presidents who did a better job hiding it.
Nailed it. None of this is new. None of this is a departure from policy or our values. The ONLY difference, is Trump isn't being a hypocrite about it. He's telling the cold, hard truth, and that truth makes many people uncomfortable because it forces them to admit they've known about this behavior all along and condoned it, so long as it wasn't Trump behind the desk.
 

cncmin

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Nailed it. None of this is new. None of this is a departure from policy or our values. The ONLY difference, is Trump isn't being a hypocrite about it. He's telling the cold, hard truth, and that truth makes many people uncomfortable because it forces them to admit they've known about this behavior all along and condoned it, so long as it wasn't Trump behind the desk.
You actually said Trump and truth in the same sentence. Stupid.
 

bottlebass

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Nailed it. None of this is new. None of this is a departure from policy or our values. The ONLY difference, is Trump isn't being a hypocrite about it. He's telling the cold, hard truth, and that truth makes many people uncomfortable because it forces them to admit they've known about this behavior all along and condoned it, so long as it wasn't Trump behind the desk.
He is not telling the cold hard truth. The cold hard truth is "yes the prince ordered this death but I (trump) do not care because we need SA to attack Iran soon, we need them to help control all the muslims in the ME we don't like, and my family needs them for our business". That is not what Trump said but is the cold hard truth.
 

Bad Gopher

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I was going to answer this, but I erased my post because "no" it's not a "serious question". It's a low grade troll. Your choice of words: "reflexive criminality", "cult members" & campaigning on "anti-Islam hate", make that perfectly clear. None of that is accurate or true.

I'm not saying this to insult you. I'm really not. There was a time you came off as one of the most intelligent posters here, asking valid questions, offering different opinions & what really made your takes valuable was that you didn't parrot the corporate media. Thats's all gone now. You've regressed so badly that your only contributions are as a troll & a flamethrower. Maybe that's your goal? Maybe you just gave up on having intelligent debates? If that's the case, carry on. If not, I hope you can step back & do some self reflection.
The insidious method of the right wing at this time is to do outrageous things and challenge anyone to call them out for how outrageous they are. Describing things accurately is not flame throwing. The Right controls the "dialogue" through incendiary messaging combined with shaming of anyone who matches their tone in reply.

Everyone here knows what you and diehard are doing, CRG. It's a form of psychological warfare, and it includes messages directed to individuals about how they've "changed." Like it or not, we're smart and strong enough to know that we haven't changed, and we don't care what anyone - especially you - claim to think of us. What's changed is the country and the world under this unfortunate criminal regime, and we're not afraid or shy about shining a light on it. Please stop trying to shame people into withholding their opinions by pretending to be concerned friends or detached observers. We all know it's a bunch of bullsh!t.
 

cncmin

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He is not telling the cold hard truth. The cold hard truth is "yes the prince ordered this death but I (trump) do not care because we need SA to attack Iran soon, we need them to help control all the muslims in the ME we don't like, and my family needs them for our business". That is not what Trump said but is the cold hard truth.
Now THAT is truth!
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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I said this too.

As far as Trumps foreign policy goal I think it has more to do with the MIC than Trump. I think Trump's own family financial ties to SA influence trump more than his own foreign policy goals.
Of course you do. You hate Trump. Those who hate him tend to look for angles to question his motives & cast aspersions on him.

I happen to think Trump had plenty of money prior to running for POTUS, and that claiming every move he makes is based on personal greed, is a simplistic cop-out.

I believe he genuinely cares about America, but that his massive ego also wants his head on Mount Rushmore, a Nobel Peace Prize, schools named after him, a National 'Trump Day' and for the history books to speak kindly of him, far more than he wants more money.

To that goal, he intends to reverse our globalist/wall st. course & steer us back into nationalism/main st. Everything I've seen points to that. Watching the corporations rally against Trump, watching the CIA/FBI rally against Trump, watching him bring unemployment down to historic lows, watching him make the necessary changes to bring industry back to the US (including corporate tax cuts), watching him renegotiate losing trade deals, his use of tariffs, watching him take illegal immigration seriously, watching him try to make peace with N. Korea, broker the peace deal between the Israelis/Saudis/Egypt et al.

Create the most robust economy ever. Drain the DC swamp. Broker peace with North Korea. Broker peace in the Middle East. These are the things, if achieved, that could get him to what I believe his real goals are.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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He is not telling the cold hard truth. The cold hard truth is "yes the prince ordered this death but I (trump) do not care because we need SA to attack Iran soon, we need them to help control all the muslims in the ME we don't like, and my family needs them for our business". That is not what Trump said but is the cold hard truth.
Yes, he is telling the truth. The truth is the US and the rest of the world, has looked the other way for decades because we need Saudi Arabia as an ally. This is a continuation of US foreign policy, not a deviation. The only difference is Trump is telling the truth about it.
 

bottlebass

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Of course you do. You hate Trump. Those who hate him tend to look for angles to question his motives & cast aspersions on him.

I happen to think Trump had plenty of money prior to running for POTUS, and that claiming every move he makes is based on personal greed, is a simplistic cop-out.

I believe he genuinely cares about America, but that his massive ego also wants his head on Mount Rushmore, a Nobel Peace Prize, schools named after him, a National 'Trump Day' and for the history books to speak kindly of him, far more than he wants more money.

To that goal, he intends to reverse our globalist/wall st. course & steer us back into nationalism/main st. Everything I've seen points to that. Watching the corporations rally against Trump, watching the CIA/FBI rally against Trump, watching him bring unemployment down to historic lows, watching him make the necessary changes to bring industry back to the US (including corporate tax cuts), watching him renegotiate losing trade deals, his use of tariffs, watching him take illegal immigration seriously, watching him try to make peace with N. Korea, broker the peace deal between the Israelis/Saudis/Egypt et al.

Create the most robust economy ever. Drain the DC swamp. Broker peace with North Korea. Broker peace in the Middle East. These are the things, if achieved, that could get him to what I believe his real goals are.
"If achieved" is correct because he hasn't done any of it. And peace in the ME? Literally laughed when I read that. That will never happen, never has and never will and the US doesn't want it, we need their wars.

I said Trump's family financials. He cares about his lasting legacy for his kids/grandkids. I do think Trump cares about the USofA, I personally he cares about himself and his family more. But so do most people so that really isn't saying much.
 

bottlebass

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Yes, he is telling the truth. The truth is the US and the rest of the world, has looked the other way for decades because we need Saudi Arabia as an ally. This is a continuation of US foreign policy, not a deviation. The only difference is Trump is telling the truth about it.
Maybe about that but he isn't telling the cold hard truth about the Prince's and SA's involvement in the killing of Khashoggi. Can you at least admit that?
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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The insidious method of the right wing at this time is to do outrageous things and challenge anyone to call them out for how outrageous they are. Describing things accurately is not flame throwing. The Right controls the "dialogue" through incendiary messaging combined with shaming of anyone who matches their tone in reply.

Everyone here knows what you and diehard are doing, CRG. It's a form of psychological warfare, and it includes messages directed to individuals about how they've "changed." Like it or not, we're smart and strong enough to know that we haven't changed, and we don't care what anyone - especially you - claim to think of us. What's changed is the country and the world under this unfortunate criminal regime, and we're not afraid or shy about shining a light on it. Please stop trying to shame people into withholding their opinions by pretending to be concerned friends or detached observers. We all know it's a bunch of bullsh!t.
"reflexive criminality", "cult members" & campaigning on "anti-Islam hate" is not "describing things accurately", it's intentionally flaming. It's no different than the low brow Obama haters who couldn't string a sentence together without calling him a "Muslim". That's where you're at now. You're not a freedom fighter in some PsyOp battle. You're just another guy who's struggling with mental health issues after Trump won fair & square.

The right doesn't control the "dialogue" at all. In fact, it's self evidently the opposite. This dialogue you talk about is not organic. It's manufactured in think tanks and NGO's, then pushed via the MSM & social media, both of which are 99% controlled by the left/globalists.

You're not capable of self awareness right now. The issues you're having prevent it. You do nothing but flame and regurgitate the corporate media talking points. Gone are your days of independent thinking. You no longer deviate from the corporate/democrat position at this point.

I honestly believe you'd put a bullet in my head at this point, if you thought you could get away with it (as would a few others on this forum). You guys have been brainwashed into seeing anyone who disagrees with your corporate/democrat talking points, as evil. No different from how the Nazis demonized the Jews. You guys see this as a war. This is how you get, once sane people, to do and support horrible acts.
 
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Angry

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The insidious method of the right wing at this time is to do outrageous things and challenge anyone to call them out for how outrageous they are. Describing things accurately is not flame throwing. The Right controls the "dialogue" through incendiary messaging combined with shaming of anyone who matches their tone in reply.

Preposterous statement of the year nominee.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Maybe about that but he isn't telling the cold hard truth about the Prince's and SA's involvement in the killing of Khashoggi. Can you at least admit that?
Hang on. You know the exact truth of MBS & SA's involvement in the killing?
 

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