Total Authority

stocker08

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They must go through the house and senate. Otherwise, Walz has total authority.

What you just posted sounds like total authority. I guess it's not. bwahbwahbwah

So Walz can give executive orders, but Trump can't.

Nice country!

You do realize Stocker, that you are talking out of your ass, right.

You never answered, should local school districts be able to override walz and go back in May?
Trump has made plenty of executive orders, dummy. And no....Walz doesn't have to go through the house and senate in this EMERGENCY situation.

And why do you keep saying "total authority" like a complete idiot. Trump pulled that out of his a$$ and now you're throwing it around like it's some legal term. LOL!!!

No. It would defeat the purpose of social distancing, which is working.
 

bga1

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I sent Walz a message yesterday. It basically said that there is no real leadership required to keep the shut down in place indefinitely. Real leadership would be coming up with a plan to re-open some businesses while minimizing the impact to the most vulnerable. I haven't seen any real leadership from the state of Minnesota on this.

Good for you! Excellent!

As for Trump, his comment was stupid. But was he actually done to assume "total authority?" I'm much more interested in what politicians actually do than what they say.
Also, note that Trump was inartfully speaking to executive emergency authority only- which is pretty darned absolute.
 

KillerGopherFan

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If we’re going to criticize someone for exceeding their authority, we should be talking about someone who has actually done it, like Michigan Governor Whitmer. Total idiot.
 

stocker08

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A little convenient to me for states to argue for greater authority and be outraged by Trump's comments but don't seem too concerned about pointing fingers at the federal government for their own lack of preparedness. Can't have it both ways.
So the federal government isn't expected to react to a pandemic? Waiting an extra month and a half to start taking a pandemic seriously is ok? Should each state send their own militia when a military conflict breaks out? Should the state in which a company is headquartered be responsible for funding a bailout? When does the the federal government have an obligation to the states?
 

KillerGopherFan

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So the federal government isn't expected to react to a pandemic? Waiting an extra month and a half to start taking a pandemic seriously is ok? Should each state send their own militia when a military conflict breaks out? Should the state in which a company is headquartered be responsible for funding a bailout? When does the the federal government have an obligation to the states?
Yeah, there’s a difference between total authority and a Federal government for the general welfare of the nation.

That said, did Obama have the authority to write an executive order legalizing illegal citizens without the consent of the US Congress? That isn’t for the general welfare of the country.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Yeah, there’s a difference between total authority and a Federal government for the general welfare of the nation.

That said, did Obama have the authority to write an executive order legalizing illegal citizens without the consent of the US Congress? That isn’t for the general welfare of the country.
DACA? No way. We're not a Monarchy man!
 

Goldteam

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Trump has made plenty of executive orders, dummy. And no....Walz doesn't have to go through the house and senate in this EMERGENCY situation.

And why do you keep saying "total authority" like a complete idiot. Trump pulled that out of his a$$ and now you're throwing it around like it's some legal term. LOL!!!

No. It would defeat the purpose of social distancing, which is working.
I'm using total authority, because that's what's got you idiots in an uproar.

Have you been watching the media? Have you read this thread? Oh, my gawd........Trump said total authority! I can't dumb it down any more than I do sir! I try, but I can't get it any simpler.

So we can't open schools or restaurants until Walz says so, right?
 

stocker08

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Yeah, there’s a difference between total authority and a Federal government for the general welfare of the nation.

That said, did Obama have the authority to write an executive order legalizing illegal citizens without the consent of the US Congress? That isn’t for the general welfare of the country.
Are you intentionally misrepresenting Obama's executive order? He certainly protected illegal immigrants from deportation....but legalizing illegal citizens? I'd like to see a source for that. And yes....protecting people who have been in the country for years and years from being deported is in the best interest of the country.

But.....how about Trump diverting federal funds to the border wall? No emergency there. Did so without consent of Congress.
 

golfing18now

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So the federal government isn't expected to react to a pandemic? Waiting an extra month and a half to start taking a pandemic seriously is ok? Should each state send their own militia when a military conflict breaks out? Should the state in which a company is headquartered be responsible for funding a bailout? When does the the federal government have an obligation to the states?
In my view.....not representing any political party or speaking for any other poster on GH.......the federal government has reacted to this pandemic to the tune of 2+ trillion dollars and many other non-monetary functions. The "waiting an extra month and a half" narrative has grown old for me. Nobody -- not Obama, not Biden, not stocker08 -- would have shut down the country when we had 15 cases. Once it was here it was inevitable as is evidenced by the fact it has migrated to every country now. I don't really care, frankly, what Trump said on February 4th, February 9th, or February 23rd. Only CNN and other news outlets in their unrelenting obsession with tearing down this presidency should care at this point as it changes nothing moving forward.

The reason for my original post.....I have found it very humorous that some States have not been shy about pointing the finger at the federal government for not having the proper PPE, ventilators, and other materials. I assume these same States would argue vociferously if the federal government was monitoring the States during a non-pandemic time period. I'm not talking about militias or corporate bail-outs. But you knew that.
 

stocker08

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I'm using total authority, because that's what's got you idiots in an uproar.

Have you been watching the media? Have you read this thread? Oh, my gawd........Trump said total authority! I can't dumb it down any more than I do sir! I try, but I can't get it any simpler.

So we can't open schools or restaurants until Walz says so, right?
Uproar? We are making fun of the idiot. And I'm definitely making fun of the term "total authority" which he used....and now you are using. LOL!

Walz is coordinating with people about when it is safe to open things back up.
 

stocker08

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In my view.....not representing any political party or speaking for any other poster on GH.......the federal government has reacted to this pandemic to the tune of 2+ trillion dollars and many other non-monetary functions. The "waiting an extra month and a half" narrative has grown old for me. Nobody -- not Obama, not Biden, not stocker08 -- would have shut down the country when we had 15 cases. Once it was here it was inevitable as is evidenced by the fact it has migrated to every country now. I don't really care, frankly, what Trump said on February 4th, February 9th, or February 23rd. Only CNN and other news outlets in their unrelenting obsession with tearing down this presidency should care at this point as it changes nothing moving forward.

The reason for my original post.....I have found it very humorous that some States have not been shy about pointing the finger at the federal government for not having the proper PPE, ventilators, and other materials. I assume these same States would argue vociferously if the federal government was monitoring the States during a non-pandemic time period. I'm not talking about militias or corporate bail-outs. But you knew that.
Shut down the country? No. Ramp up production of tests and the PPE that we were going to need. You don't care that throughout February....Trump and company were saying that things were getting better and everything was under control? The fact is....the federal government has the resources to counter disasters like this. Individual states....not as much.
 

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Are you intentionally misrepresenting Obama's executive order? He certainly protected illegal immigrants from deportation....but legalizing illegal citizens? I'd like to see a source for that. And yes....protecting people who have been in the country for years and years from being deported is in the best interest of the country.

But.....how about Trump diverting federal funds to the border wall? No emergency there. Did so without consent of Congress.
Ok, giving indefinite legal status to illegals. It is in no way for the general interest of the country. It is in the interest of those people and their relatives.

Trump won a temporary decision in the Supreme Court to proceed with the wall.

On the other hand, Obama exceeded his authority more than any other modern President and lost in the Supreme Court more than any.



https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obama-has-lost-supreme-court-more-any-modern-president

Were you complaining then?
 

golfing18now

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Shut down the country? No. Ramp up production of tests and the PPE that we were going to need. You don't care that throughout February....Trump and company were saying that things were getting better and everything was under control? The fact is....the federal government has the resources to counter disasters like this. Individual states....not as much.
You are arguing that the production of tests and PPE should have been ramped up earlier, presumably to fight the virus more effectively. But then you were outraged -- even started a thread on it -- that Trump sent PPE to China, presumably to fight the virus before it even got here. I guess I would have rather fought it over there. Doesn't that seem like a disconnect to you?

Regarding your Trump question. I don't know what he should have said. There has been a number of inaccuracies and ridiculous projections throughout this whole process. I don't blame him for trying to avoid a panic. Has he been perfect? Of course not. But I don't think we should pretend this process would be seamless, regardless of who was in control.
 

stocker08

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Ok, giving indefinite legal status to illegals. It is in no way for the general interest of the country. It is in the interest of those people and their relatives.

Trump won a temporary decision in the Supreme Court to proceed with the wall.

On the other hand, Obama exceeded his authority more than any other modern President and lost in the Supreme Court more than any.



https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obama-has-lost-supreme-court-more-any-modern-president

Were you complaining then?
For people who have been here for many years....yes....they shouldn't be deported all of the sudden. Especially when families are involved.

Trump went around Congress to start working on the wall. Signed an executive order to do so. That's not up for debate.

Obama exceeded authority more than any other president? Wrong. He signed fewer executive orders than any modern president. Trump is going WAY further to exceed authority.
 

stocker08

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You are arguing that the production of tests and PPE should have been ramped up earlier, presumably to fight the virus more effectively. But then you were outraged -- even started a thread on it -- that Trump sent PPE to China, presumably to fight the virus before it even got here. I guess I would have rather fought it over there. Doesn't that seem like a disconnect to you?

Regarding your Trump question. I don't know what he should have said. There has been a number of inaccuracies and ridiculous projections throughout this whole process. I don't blame him for trying to avoid a panic. Has he been perfect? Of course not. But I don't think we should pretend this process would be seamless, regardless of who was in control.
No, it doesn't. The Trump admin did not take the virus seriously until the numbers started rising beyond control. And Trump's own pressers stating that everything was under control throughout February reflect that.

I have never said that anyone could have stopped this all from happening. But it's pretty clear that the lead up to mid March....in which "everything was under control"....was a lot of time spent sitting on our hands.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Found an article on a legal website on emergency declarations.

A few highlights:

Traditionally states have a general statute that permits the governor to declare a state of emergency for any type of emergency or natural disaster, which can be construed broadly to include disease epidemics and other public health emergencies.

generally the governor may declare an emergency by issuing an executive order or other declaration to that effect. The declaration addresses the effective dates and duration of the declaration, geographic areas of the state covered, conditions giving rise to the emergency, and the agency or agencies leading the response activities. The declaration may also identify state rules and regulations that are waived or suspended during the emergency.
Depending on the type of emergency declared, and the scope of authority granted to the state official making the emergency declaration, the actions and authorities engaged by a state emergency declaration can include:

Activation of state emergency response plans and mutual aid agreements.
Authority to expend funds and deploy personnel, equipment, supplies, and stockpiles.
Suspension and waiver of rules and regulations (and statutes, if allowed).
Streamlining of state administrative procedures such as procurement requirements.
 

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“Trump didn’t do enough”, but a whole thread about how the States have control and not Trump.
 

Livingat45north

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It's amazing how Trump can play the left, and everytime they agree to play along. Truthseeker and others take the bait and do whatever Trump wants. He just has to say something, and the dems fly into action to state the reverse. He can get them to say whatever he wants. Some simple examples of Trump's recent todo list:

(1) January - COVID could be a real problem, let's get the Dem leaders on record saying it won't be. Done, Pelosi, Schumer others respond to Trump's actions on warning about COVID by going on record that COVID is not going to be an issue - hug a Chinese person day, hang out in China Town, don't worry about it.

(2) February - People are going to blame China for this, let's get the Dem leaders to go on record saying we should trust China, that they're our friends. Done, Trump calls it the China virus. Pelosi, Schumer and others jump up to defend China as being our friend. You're racist if you think China had anything to do with this!!!

(3) March - We need to set some incredibly high death tool numbers so when the real number comes in it looks like we've done a great job. Done, Trump says it'll be managed. Pelosi, Schumer et. al. ramp into gear quoting as high of numbers as they can, saying 2.2 million people are going to die.

(4) April - We need to open up the economy again, but when we do some people are going to catch COVID and die. Let's get the dem Gov's to assert that they're the ones ultimately responsible for reopening their states so they take the blame for the deaths. Done. Pelosi, Schumer and the gov's claim they are the ones who will be responsible.

That's just four of the legions of examples. Others include hospitals are going to be overrun, Trump can't get the Navy to provide a hospital in NY, we're going to run out of ventilators, there won't be enough masks, hydroxychloroquine banned from being prescribed in states, and so much more. Trump has gotten Dems to say exactly what he wants them to say when he wants them to say it, each time making the dems take positions that are ridiculous. For more examples, just look at the threads Truthseeker has started. Not just on COVID, but everything. Over and over again, Truthseeker takes the bait everytime. It's a repeated sequence. (1) Trumpster makes the Dems dance by quoting someone who thought something, (2) CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS and Washington Post jump onto the tune and blow up by taking the opposite stand and amplifying it 10 times, (3) and the minions of Blue team followers echo it through the land. The fiddler has them dancing to his tune, has done so ever since he rode down the escalator, and they still don't realize it. It's amazing to watch it play out, over and over again. Obama is a brilliant politician, his "apology tour" was absolutely a legendary play and win on his part. The red team still doesn't realize that's how he won the second term election. The Trumpster with his "Rockford" approach (not many of you will get that) is even better.
 

KillerGopherFan

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For people who have been here for many years....yes....they shouldn't be deported all of the sudden. Especially when families are involved.

Trump went around Congress to start working on the wall. Signed an executive order to do so. That's not up for debate.

Obama exceeded authority more than any other president? Wrong. He signed fewer executive orders than any modern president. Trump is going WAY further to exceed authority.
Wow, you’re really way off. Obama’s record in Supreme Court cases for exceeding his constitutional authority is what it is, and it’s no good.

Regarding DACA, just b/c something is deemed good, doesn’t make it constitutional, and if this were challenged in court, Obama would lose. It was politically expedient to let it alone.

Trump didn’t use an Executive Order to fund the portion of the wall you’re talking about. The Defense Dept repurposed it from its existing budget.


BTW, the number of EOs has absolutely nothing to do with whether a president is exceeding his constitutional authority. The only thing that matters is whether a president is exercising authority in the EO that exceeds his constitutionally defined authority in any individual EO, or termed otherwise, breaking the law. A president could write a 1000 EOs. If none break the law, it is okay.
 

Goldteam

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Uproar? We are making fun of the idiot. And I'm definitely making fun of the term "total authority" which he used....and now you are using. LOL!

Walz is coordinating with people about when it is safe to open things back up.
And I'm making fun of you! You are making fun of the idiot. I'm making fun of your idiot tendencies by denying Walz is doing the same thing.

I guess we can call it even.

By the way Stoker, these other posters are bludgeoning you.
 

Goldteam

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It's amazing how Trump can play the left, and everytime they agree to play along. Truthseeker and others take the bait and do whatever Trump wants. He just has to say something, and the dems fly into action to state the reverse. He can get them to say whatever he wants. Some simple examples of Trump's recent todo list:

(1) January - COVID could be a real problem, let's get the Dem leaders on record saying it won't be. Done, Pelosi, Schumer others respond to Trump's actions on warning about COVID by going on record that COVID is not going to be an issue - hug a Chinese person day, hang out in China Town, don't worry about it.

(2) February - People are going to blame China for this, let's get the Dem leaders to go on record saying we should trust China, that they're our friends. Done, Trump calls it the China virus. Pelosi, Schumer and others jump up to defend China as being our friend. You're racist if you think China had anything to do with this!!!

(3) March - We need to set some incredibly high death tool numbers so when the real number comes in it looks like we've done a great job. Done, Trump says it'll be managed. Pelosi, Schumer et. al. ramp into gear quoting as high of numbers as they can, saying 2.2 million people are going to die.

(4) April - We need to open up the economy again, but when we do some people are going to catch COVID and die. Let's get the dem Gov's to assert that they're the ones ultimately responsible for reopening their states so they take the blame for the deaths. Done. Pelosi, Schumer and the gov's claim they are the ones who will be responsible.

That's just four of the legions of examples. Others include hospitals are going to be overrun, Trump can't get the Navy to provide a hospital in NY, we're going to run out of ventilators, there won't be enough masks, hydroxychloroquine banned from being prescribed in states, and so much more. Trump has gotten Dems to say exactly what he wants them to say when he wants them to say it, each time making the dems take positions that are ridiculous. For more examples, just look at the threads Truthseeker has started. Not just on COVID, but everything. Over and over again, Truthseeker takes the bait everytime. It's a repeated sequence. (1) Trumpster makes the Dems dance by quoting someone who thought something, (2) CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS and Washington Post jump onto the tune and blow up by taking the opposite stand and amplifying it 10 times, (3) and the minions of Blue team followers echo it through the land. The fiddler has them dancing to his tune, has done so ever since he rode down the escalator, and they still don't realize it. It's amazing to watch it play out, over and over again. Obama is a brilliant politician, his "apology tour" was absolutely a legendary play and win on his part. The red team still doesn't realize that's how he won the second term election. The Trumpster with his "Rockford" approach (not many of you will get that) is even better.
There is one problem with what you posted and here it is:

Many of these idiots don't believe what their own eyes see.
 

Goldteam

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“Trump didn’t do enough”, but a whole thread about how the States have control and not Trump.
Spoofin........that may be the best post in this thread. All in one sentence!
 

Goldteam

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No, it doesn't. The Trump admin did not take the virus seriously until the numbers started rising beyond control. And Trump's own pressers stating that everything was under control throughout February reflect that.

I have never said that anyone could have stopped this all from happening. But it's pretty clear that the lead up to mid March....in which "everything was under control"....was a lot of time spent sitting on our hands.
What did you want Trump to do in February? I'm interested.
 

Goldteam

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If we’re going to criticize someone for exceeding their authority, we should be talking about someone who has actually done it, like Michigan Governor Whitmer. Total idiot.
You can't go to garden places, furniture places or paint places. She's a flipping demtard so it's a free pass.
 

Panthadad2

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You can't go to garden places, furniture places or paint places. She's a flipping demtard so it's a free pass.
The MI Gov made a weird move if that's true. Hardware, home and garden stores rely on spring sales for a huge part of annual sales. A friend at a local hardware chain told me garden stuff is flying off the shelf right now including seeds etc. Paint is also selling especially well with all us shut ins doing inexpensive home projects.
 

Goldteam

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The MI Gov made a weird move if that's true. Hardware, home and garden stores rely on spring sales for a huge part of annual sales. A friend at a local hardware chain told me garden stuff is flying off the shelf right now including seeds etc. Paint is also selling especially well with all us shut ins doing inexpensive home projects.
She's insane, but you just can't seem to get a conversation going about her for some reason. I wonder why that is. LOL
 

MplsGopher

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(1) January - COVID could be a real problem, let's get the Dem leaders on record saying it won't be. Done, Pelosi, Schumer others respond to Trump's actions on warning about COVID by going on record that COVID is not going to be an issue - hug a Chinese person day, hang out in China Town, don't worry about it.

(2) February - People are going to blame China for this, let's get the Dem leaders to go on record saying we should trust China, that they're our friends. Done, Trump calls it the China virus. Pelosi, Schumer and others jump up to defend China as being our friend. You're racist if you think China had anything to do with this!!!

(3) March - We need to set some incredibly high death tool numbers so when the real number comes in it looks like we've done a great job. Done, Trump says it'll be managed. Pelosi, Schumer et. al. ramp into gear quoting as high of numbers as they can, saying 2.2 million people are going to die.

(4) April - We need to open up the economy again, but when we do some people are going to catch COVID and die. Let's get the dem Gov's to assert that they're the ones ultimately responsible for reopening their states so they take the blame for the deaths. Done. Pelosi, Schumer and the gov's claim they are the ones who will be responsible.
Luckily for normal people (like myself), the only people who will buy this roughspun fabric are those who were already going to vote for Trump.

But great effort here. No doubt you’ll get some gullible saps, who were already going to vote for Trump, to call you a genius.
 

Goldteam

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Luckily for normal people (like myself), the only people who will buy this roughspun fabric are those who were already going to vote for Trump.

But great effort here. No doubt you’ll get some gullible saps, who were already going to vote for Trump, to call you a genius.
Tell me one that is false. Thanks!
 
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