"The Wasting of the Evangelical Mind"

[Go4Broke]

Sometimes it's hard to tell which is worse: Evangelical Christian hypocrisy and un-Christian behavior or Conservative Catholic double standards and un-Christian behavior.

 

[Go4Broke]

 

[cncmin]

When religion itself fails you at the core of morality, you have a spiritual/societal problem. It's little wonder organized religion is faltering given how it has been politicized and weaponized.

 

[Go4Broke]

It's little wonder organized religion is faltering given how it has been politicized and weaponized.

You nailed it.

 

[MennoSota]

A tribute to John Polkinghorne, renowned scientist and theologian.

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biologos.org

 

[jovs]

Why should government grant privileges for marriage? Maybe don’t do that. Anyone is free to voluntarily enter into contracts if they want. There is no need for government to sanction marriage.

I think you have it backwards, you could argue that a church involvement can be voluntary based on your beliefs but the governments role is required. There are so many legal issues involved if the marriage breaks up or one dies that if you take away the legal contract you have chaos. Prenup agreements, separation of assets, estate resolution, child custody issues, etc..

 

[golf]

A tribute to John Polkinghorne, renowned scientist and theologian.

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biologos.org

A good read on Easter morning .

 

[Section2]

I think you have it backwards, you could argue that a church involvement can be voluntary based on your beliefs but the governments role is required. There are so many legal issues involved if the marriage breaks up or one dies that if you take away the legal contract you have chaos. Prenup agreements, separation of assets, estate resolution, child custody issues, etc..

Government sanction of marriage not required for any of your examples. I’m not arguing an end to legal contracts.

 

[howeda7]

Government sanction of marriage not required for any of your examples. I’m not arguing an end to legal contracts.

Zero of your fellow QOPers would vote for such a bill.

 

[MennoSota]

Sometimes it's hard to tell which is worse: Evangelical Christian hypocrisy and un-Christian behavior or Conservative Catholic double standards and un-Christian behavior.

This priest is not wrong. President Biden, as a member of the Roman Catholic Church, cannot partake of the sacrament of communion while unrepentant. The priest would be in violation of the Bible by administering communion to President Biden.
If you are not a Roman Catholic, go your way. If you are, then hold to the Bible and the church.

 

[Section2]

Zero of your fellow QOPers would vote for such a bill.

Oh, I’m a part of “Q” now too. Thanks for letting me know.
why would I care if GOPers agree with me or not? I’ll continue to argue for what I think is right regardless of popularity, and you can continue to support sanitized opinions from the MSM.

 

[cncmin]

Oh, I’m a part of “Q” now too. Thanks for letting me know.
why would I care if GOPers agree with me or not? I’ll continue to argue for what I think is right regardless of popularity, and you can continue to support sanitized opinions from the MSM.

Here's the problem: What you think is "right" and is "reality" has been spoonfed to your brain by Republican Party propagandists for decades. You may not be a prototypical QOPer, but you most certainly share their Echo Chamber. You are only a slight outlier of the 1984 alternative "reality" state the QOP operatives have created.

 

[Section2]

Here's the problem: What you think is "right" and is "reality" has been spoonfed to your brain by Republican Party propagandists for decades. You may not be a prototypical QOPer, but you most certainly share their Echo Chamber. You are only a slight outlier of the 1984 alternative "reality" state the QOP operatives have created.

Pick an argument. I’m spoonfed all my ideas by Republicans or my views are out of line with the party.

 

[cncmin]

Pick an argument. I’m spoonfed all my ideas by Republicans or my views are out of line with the party.

Let's try these three for starters.
1. Were there large-scale irregularities and/or fraud in the 2020 election such that Trump should have won over Biden, yes or no?
2. Does science have a strong consensus that global warming exists and that it is mainly caused by human activity, yes or no?
3. Have tax cuts since 1980 resulted in relative increases in tax revenues trends relative to the previous baseline trends, yes or no?

 

[howeda7]

Let's try these three for starters.
1. Were there large-scale irregularities and/or fraud in the 2020 election such that Trump should have won over Biden, yes or no?
2. Does science have a strong consensus that global warming exists and that it is mainly caused by human activity, yes or no?
3. Have tax cuts since 1980 resulted in relative increases in tax revenues trends relative to the previous baseline trends, yes or no?

Look out. You're about to have more pretzels than Snyder's of Hanover.

 

[Plausible Deniability]

Here's the problem: What you think is "right" and is "reality" has been spoonfed to your brain by Republican Party propagandists for decades. You may not be a prototypical QOPer, but you most certainly share their Echo Chamber. You are only a slight outlier of the 1984 alternative "reality" state the QOP operatives have created.

I love this post because this sums up what cringy is about, 100%;

"Everyone that agrees with me is smart and informed and has taken the time to seek out good, quality unbiased information to form a solid opinion and everyone who does NOT agree with me has been spoonfed biased propaganda and are all stupid and uneducated racists".

Cringy thinking from top to bottom, we appreciate you for showing us who you are.

 

[Section2]

Let's try these three for starters.
1. Were there large-scale irregularities and/or fraud in the 2020 election such that Trump should have won over Biden, yes or no?
2. Does science have a strong consensus that global warming exists and that it is mainly caused by human activity, yes or no?
3. Have tax cuts since 1980 resulted in relative increases in tax revenues trends relative to the previous baseline trends, yes or no?

These questions are not about whether I differ from Republicans. These questions are about whether I’m a part of your tribe. I am not.
3 is the only interesting question. Republicans favor tax cuts as a way to maximize tax revenue. That is not my goal. My goal is to minimize tax revenue. I’m interested in limiting spending. tax revenue relative to GDP has been remarkably consistent despite all kinds of tax cuts and tax hikes.

Look, you can’t jump into a discussion I’m having with Howie about how my ideas are supported by zero Republicans, and then argue that I only believe what I believe because I’ve bought into Republican propaganda. That’s a loser argument. Make up your mind.
Anti drug war. Anti war. Anti laws outlawing victimless crimes (gambling, prostitution, etc). Anti foreign intervention. Anti Keynesianism. Anti tariffs. Anti stimulus. Anti corporate welfare. Anti defense spending. Those are positions opposite key Bush and Trump policies. I could list many more. Which Fox talking head is pushing those policies?

 

[cncmin]

These questions are not about whether I differ from Republicans. These questions are about whether I’m a part of your tribe. I am not.
3 is the only interesting question. Republicans favor tax cuts as a way to maximize tax revenue. That is not my goal. My goal is to minimize tax revenue. I’m interested in limiting spending. tax revenue relative to GDP has been remarkably consistent despite all kinds of tax cuts and tax hikes.

Look, you can’t jump into a discussion I’m having with Howie about how my ideas are supported by zero Republicans, and then argue that I only believe what I believe because I’ve bought into Republican propaganda. That’s a loser argument. Make up your mind.
Anti drug war. Anti war. Anti laws outlawing victimless crimes (gambling, prostitution, etc). Anti foreign intervention. Anti Keynesianism. Anti tariffs. Anti stimulus. Anti corporate welfare. Anti defense spending. Those are positions opposite key Bush and Trump policies. I could list many more. Which Fox talking head is pushing those policies?

I mean thanks for the longer post than usual, but you seem to be dancing around each of the three points I made. Why? Your honest answers to each of these three questions, and each of which I know your true stance from former posts you've made on this board, aligns with Republican Party propaganda and against reality. And really, that's the whole point of all of this. You readily believe propaganda over reality, and then repeat that propaganda here as if it's anything more than garbage.

If you want to be some independent thinker, like you want to be taken as, then you need to quit being fooled by propaganda, and get some damn principles and stick with them. You are strongly anti-government, and yet you try to back up that anti-government stance with fantasy. Why can't you just be anti-government while accepting reality?

 

[cncmin]

I love this post because this sums up what cringy is about, 100%;

"Everyone that agrees with me is smart and informed and has taken the time to seek out good, quality unbiased information to form a solid opinion and everyone who does NOT agree with me has been spoonfed biased propaganda and are all stupid and uneducated racists".

Cringy thinking from top to bottom, we appreciate you for showing us who you are.

*rolls eyes* You are a very strong example of the accuracy of my post.

 

[Section2]

I mean thanks for the longer post than usual, but you seem to be dancing around each of the three points I made. Why? Your honest answers to each of these three questions, and each of which I know your true stance from former posts you've made on this board, aligns with Republican Party propaganda and against reality. And really, that's the whole point of all of this. You readily believe propaganda over reality, and then repeat that propaganda here as if it's anything more than garbage.

If you want to be some independent thinker, like you want to be taken as, then you need to quit being fooled by propaganda, and get some damn principles and stick with them. You are strongly anti-government, and yet you try to back up that anti-government stance with fantasy. Why can't you just be anti-government while accepting reality?

Because your three questions are not about whether I differ with Republicans, but whether I differ from you. I align with Republicans somewhat on many issues. But mostly in comparison to Democrat positions, of which I align almost zero.
I don’t care at all if you and Howie think I’m independent. You are the most unoriginal posters on the board.

 

[Section2]

*rolls eyes* You are a very strong example of the accuracy of my post.

Trite platitudes are not evidence of deep thinking. You’re a simpleton.

 

[Nokomis]

I'm yet undecided. Do you think ska helps or hurts church attendance? I'm leaning towards hurts.
(this isn't my church but it made the local Rochester paper)

 

[cncmin]

Because your three questions are not about whether I differ with Republicans, but whether I differ from you. I align with Republicans somewhat on many issues. But mostly in comparison to Democrat positions, of which I align almost zero.
I don’t care at all if you and Howie think I’m independent. You are the most unoriginal posters on the board.

Wrong. So very wrong. Why can't you answer the questions, whatever the reason? (I know why, and so do you)

 

[MennoSota]

I mean thanks for the longer post than usual, but you seem to be dancing around each of the three points I made. Why? Your honest answers to each of these three questions, and each of which I know your true stance from former posts you've made on this board, aligns with Republican Party propaganda and against reality. And really, that's the whole point of all of this. You readily believe propaganda over reality, and then repeat that propaganda here as if it's anything more than garbage.

If you want to be some independent thinker, like you want to be taken as, then you need to quit being fooled by propaganda, and get some damn principles and stick with them. You are strongly anti-government, and yet you try to back up that anti-government stance with fantasy. Why can't you just be anti-government while accepting reality?

This is rich, coming from a person fully drinking the progressive propaganda.

 

[Section2]

Wrong. So very wrong. Why can't you answer the questions, whatever the reason? (I know why, and so do you)

I’ve answered them all. We’ve had long discussions about 2 of your 3 questions in the past week. I listed a dozen issues where my views don’t align with Republicans. These are the weakest gotcha questions I’ve ever seen. Your point is ludicrous.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Great article, complete with historical overview, of the subversion of logic and intellect to conspiratorial thinking and misinformation by a bulk of the Evangelical community. Obviously, not all Evangelicals are this way, and there are numerous American Evangelical intellects. However, there is no doubt that the predisposition to gullibility of the Evangelical community poses one of the greatest problems related to the present and future success of this country under our Constitution. Are Evangelicals really "wasting" their minds?

Notably, there are some distinct traits discussed in this article that are direct analogs to persons on this board. This article helps to explain why some people you just can't reach.

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www.newyorker.com

Most striking in this article are the statistics:
" A recent survey, conducted by the American Enterprise Institute, found that more than a quarter of white evangelicals believe that Donald Trump has been secretly battling “a group of child sex traffickers that include prominent Democrats and Hollywood elites,” a core tenet of the QAnon conspiracy theory. The data suggest a faith-based reality divide emerging within the Republican Party: nearly three-quarters of white evangelical Republicans believe widespread voter fraud took place in the 2020 election, compared with fifty-four per cent of non-evangelical Republicans; sixty per cent of white evangelical Republicans believe that Antifa, the antifascist group, was mostly responsible for the violence in the Capitol riot, compared with forty-two per cent of non-evangelical Republicans. Other surveys have found that white evangelicals are much more skeptical of the covid-19 vaccine and are less likely than other Americans to get it, potentially jeopardizing the country’s recovery from the pandemic. "

Here is a Times Article on some White Evangelicals refusal to take the Covid vaccination from yesterday -

White Evangelical Resistance Is Obstacle in Vaccination Effort​

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www.nytimes.com

Another thing that is odd about it is that this appears to totally contradicts their (White Evangelicals' who won't get vaccinated) beliefs in The Bible's inerrancy because their refusal to do so, is a rebuff of the following passage in Romans 13:1 -

(NIV) - Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

I'm not going to get into the contextual theological argument of the applicability of the verse itself, as it relates to two doctrines, both of which are now discredited, the doctrines of divine right and of passive obedience.

Two interesting things about the Bible is that it can certainty be considered interpretive and also that it needs to be read with context, whilst the above passage may have been a fit for those times and place as the Jews rebelled regularly and hated the Romans' rule.

Personally I don't believe in the inerrancy of The Bible; however, I do believe in the inerrancy of God's love/Grace for me and others and that God sent Jesus to do the following for me -

John 3:17 (NIV) -

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

I try to focus on that now with others since God provide me with that Grace vs. judging them, even though as demonstrated on here frequently, I do it very imperfectly. The beautiful part is that God still loves me, so not only do I receive his forgiveness, but am also provided an ideal to grow towards - the more I focus on loving vs. judging others, the cleaner I feel and the closer to God.

 

[Wally]

Government sanction of marriage not required for any of your examples. I’m not arguing an end to legal contracts.

Lawyers would sure love that.

 

[Blizzard]

Here is a Times Article on some White Evangelicals refusal to take the Covid vaccination

The article is more or less a political hit job. The Democrats are merely flipping the script as usual.

Another thing that is odd about it is that this appears to totally contradicts their (White Evangelicals' who won't get vaccinated) beliefs in The Bible's inerrancy because their refusal to do so, is a rebuff of the following passage in Romans 13:1 -

(NIV) - Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

I'm not going to get into the contextual theological argument of the applicability of the verse itself

That's probably a good idea. What in the world did you post it for anyway?

the more I focus on loving vs. judging others, the cleaner I feel and the closer to God.

There's something you're misunderstanding about salvation. Would you like me to point it out for you or would you like to think about a bit and rephrase your sentence?

Tried to edit this to take the quotes out. Whatever.

 

[Plausible Deniability]

Here is a Times Article

You lost a lot of people at this point...