The Price of Reopening the Economy: Tens of Thousands of American Lives

Bad Gopher

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There literally are not words to respond to an off-the-wall post like this. I don't know how you ever leave your house most days. This is downright disturbing that anyone could think like this.
So if I told you that windmills cause cancer you'd think that was normal and rational. Got it. Sorry your headspace is this fucked up, but I can't help you.

You're definitely showing your true colors lately. You've blown your own cover.
 

OldBob53

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Not only that- people like Cruze, jtf and Bad seem to report these things with glee. In Cruze's case anytime he can find a hint of bad news, he is so excited that he starts another thread using apocalyptic fonts. It is almost as if they feel that creating the fear might be all worth it in the end...if it eliminates the Bad Orange Man. I would have never imagined people being so thrilled to be locked down for months.
The Truth is not often a pleasant thing bg, and its clear YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH
 

Cruze

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I guess we'll just have to add one more thing to the list of the Trumpster's failures as America's leader during a time of crisis. It just doesn't seem strong enough anymore to say he is the worst president in American history. Those words don't really convey just how bad he has been as president and what a pathetic human being he is.


Trump shelves CDC guide to reopening country and puts muzzle on CDC scientists

The 17-page report by a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention team, titled “Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework,” was researched and written to help faith leaders, business owners, educators and state and local officials as they begin to reopen.

It was supposed to be published last Friday, but agency scientists were told the guidance “would never see the light of day,” according to a CDC official. The official was not authorized to talk to reporters and spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity.

Traditionally, it’s been the CDC’s role to give the public and local officials guidance and science-based information during public health crises. During this one, however, the CDC has not had a regular, pandemic-related news briefing in nearly two months. CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield has been a member of the White House coronavirus task force, but largely absent from public appearances.

The dearth of real-time, public information from the nation’s experts has struck many current and former government health officials as dangerous. “CDC has always been the public health agency Americans turn to in a time of crisis,” said Dr. Howard Koh, a Harvard professor and former health official in the Obama administration during the H1N1 swine flu pandemic in 2009. “The standard in a crisis is to turn to them for the latest data and latest guidance and the latest press briefing. That has not occurred, and everyone sees that.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/07/admin-shelves-cdc-guide-to-reopening-country-242008
 
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bga1

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I guess we'll just have to add one more thing to the list of the Trumpster's failures as America's leader during a time of crisis.


Trump shelves CDC guide to reopening country and puts muzzle on CDC scientists

The 17-page report by a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention team, titled “Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework,” was researched and written to help faith leaders, business owners, educators and state and local officials as they begin to reopen.

It was supposed to be published last Friday, but agency scientists were told the guidance “would never see the light of day,” according to a CDC official. The official was not authorized to talk to reporters and spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity.

Traditionally, it’s been the CDC’s role to give the public and local officials guidance and science-based information during public health crises. During this one, however, the CDC has not had a regular, pandemic-related news briefing in nearly two months. CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield has been a member of the White House coronavirus task force, but largely absent from public appearances.

The dearth of real-time, public information from the nation’s experts has struck many current and former government health officials as dangerous. “CDC has always been the public health agency Americans turn to in a time of crisis,” said Dr. Howard Koh, a Harvard professor and former health official in the Obama administration during the H1N1 swine flu pandemic in 2009. “The standard in a crisis is to turn to them for the latest data and latest guidance and the latest press briefing. That has not occurred, and everyone sees that.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/07/admin-shelves-cdc-guide-to-reopening-country-242008
"according to a CDC official" - Translation-very likely fake news. If the news were real, why wouldn't the person just go on the record using his own name? How many more years are you going to keep parroting this garbage Cruze? Actually I will answer that for you- 4.5 more years.
 

GophersInIowa

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The people who are going to die are going to die because they have no immunity or resistence to this disease. What the rest of us do or don't do will have no effect on those deaths because we will have no contact with them if they are smart and we are smart.
For many that works but there are exceptions. For instance, my daughter goes to an in-home daycare. The daycare provider has a high-functioning autistic son that has asthma.
 

GophersInIowa

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That CDC # is not current which has already been discussed multiple times here. Pathetic. Do better.
It should be pretty obvious if people scroll down and look at the state breakdown. There's zero chance Connecticut, for example, has just 1,874 total deaths across the state in the past 3+ months. Normally they'd be around 8,000.

There's two ways the CDC reports this info. One is via state reports each day. That one will always be more up to date. This system uses death certificates. Each state is different as to how long that process takes.
 

howeda7

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It should be pretty obvious if people scroll down and look at the state breakdown. There's zero chance Connecticut, for example, has just 1,874 total deaths across the state in the past 3+ months. Normally they'd be around 8,000.

There's two ways the CDC reports this info. One is via state reports each day. That one will always be more up to date. This system uses death certificates. Each state is different as to how long that process takes.
And that's fine. It's the RW sudden insistence that "the real death toll is only half what is being reported" that is complete and total BS.
 

GophersInIowa

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So wait, this article claims to debunk this "dangerous conspiracy theory", but actually kind of confirms it? 37,000 is still a lot of deaths. And 2/1-4/25 isnt' like they're missing a month of data.
The CDC numbers aren't counted deaths, generally speaking from my understanding, they are projections. The 37k number is actual counted deaths. So it might be lagged, but it's accurate.
That doesn't mean the data is complete through those dates. It says they are including data that has been received in that timeframe.
 

GophersInIowa

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And that's fine. It's the RW sudden insistence that "the real death toll is only half what is being reported" that is complete and total BS.
Yeah I wasn't criticizing you. The report that it was being cut in half was bad.
 

Section2

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That doesn't mean the data is complete through those dates. It says they are including data that has been received in that timeframe.
I haven't dug into it at all. I'll take your word for it. Is anyone's entire prediction/outlook/recommendations changed if it was 37k deaths vs 65k? Whatever it is, I just want accuracy. But for me, if 200k people had died, I wouldn't be arguing for anything different. The only way I would change any of my recommendations or thoughts is if this was hitting kids the way it's hitting the elderly. Then you might have a leg to stand on to continue with these lockdowns. But it's almost all nursing homes? Madness.
 

GophersInIowa

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I haven't dug into it at all. I'll take your word for it. Is anyone's entire prediction/outlook/recommendations changed if it was 37k deaths vs 65k? Whatever it is, I just want accuracy. But for me, if 200k people had died, I wouldn't be arguing for anything different. The only way I would change any of my recommendations or thoughts is if this was hitting kids the way it's hitting the elderly. Then you might have a leg to stand on to continue with these lockdowns. But it's almost all nursing homes? Madness.
I agree with a lot of this. What's the plan? No one seems to have one.

What I don't like about this false interpretation is many people (not you specifically) use this as "another example of them lying to us" or "see, they don't know what they're doing. I'm not listening to them anymore, I'll do what I want".

People have every right to be critical. But we should try to understand the information first. In this day and age of social media, that doesn't happen very often anymore. It's much easier to just hit share than research it.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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So if I told you that windmills cause cancer you'd think that was normal and rational. Got it. Sorry your headspace is this fucked up, but I can't help you.

You're definitely showing your true colors lately. You've blown your own cover.
I honestly don't know what you're rebutting with this post?

My point is, for some reason it is impossible for you to make any kind of cogent point relevant to any of the issues at hand without using it as an opportunity to hammer and blast the current administration. Every single ill in the entire world right now, to you, as the fault of the current Prez. It's one thing to feel that way but it really does make it difficult to take anything you say very seriously. I'm saying this with all sincerity. It is really hard to push through and peel around the hatred and vitriol in your words to see what you're trying to say. I honestly don't know if I've even seen anyone on tv the last 3+ years that has the level of hatred that you have displayed.

You're a smart guy, I would just like to hear some meaningful thoughts and perspectives from you on some of these issues, like you used to a few years ago.
 

Minnesota

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I honestly don't know what you're rebutting with this post?

My point is, for some reason it is impossible for you to make any kind of cogent point relevant to any of the issues at hand without using it as an opportunity to hammer and blast the current administration. Every single ill in the entire world right now, to you, as the fault of the current Prez. It's one thing to feel that way but it really does make it difficult to take anything you say very seriously. I'm saying this with all sincerity. It is really hard to push through and peel around the hatred and vitriol in your words to see what you're trying to say. I honestly don't know if I've even seen anyone on tv the last 3+ years that has the level of hatred that you have displayed.

You're a smart guy, I would just like to hear some meaningful thoughts and perspectives from you on some of these issues, like you used to a few years ago.
Are you OK? Hatred??? Lol. You can’t handle any criticism of the Trump administration so you stomp your feet like a little baby and cry “But what about Obama?!” every chance you get.

You’re the most emotional poster around.
 

Bad Gopher

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I honestly don't know what you're rebutting with this post?

My point is, for some reason it is impossible for you to make any kind of cogent point relevant to any of the issues at hand without using it as an opportunity to hammer and blast the current administration. Every single ill in the entire world right now, to you, as the fault of the current Prez. It's one thing to feel that way but it really does make it difficult to take anything you say very seriously. I'm saying this with all sincerity. It is really hard to push through and peel around the hatred and vitriol in your words to see what you're trying to say. I honestly don't know if I've even seen anyone on tv the last 3+ years that has the level of hatred that you have displayed.

You're a smart guy, I would just like to hear some meaningful thoughts and perspectives from you on some of these issues, like you used to a few years ago.
The current administration practically demands being hammered. That's one of the best things about the unfettered right to speech in this country: I can describe what I see and think in words in public.

You really ought to put me on ignore. It's clear that my posts really aggravate you, especially the ones where I describe what's going on without reservation or fear of judgement. Not only do I not care what you think, I know the truth and quality of my posts are high when it gets your goat.

Until you ignore me, I'm going to continue to point out how partisan and full of shit you are.
 

Section2

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I agree with a lot of this. What's the plan? No one seems to have one.

What I don't like about this false interpretation is many people (not you specifically) use this as "another example of them lying to us" or "see, they don't know what they're doing. I'm not listening to them anymore, I'll do what I want".

People have every right to be critical. But we should try to understand the information first. In this day and age of social media, that doesn't happen very often anymore. It's much easier to just hit share than research it.
It seems like everyone has an agenda. Especially among the media. I have almost no confidence in reporting anymore, especially as it relates to Trump. There's just no chance that anyone from the center to the left can be objective. They want to get rid of him. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I absolutely think that dynamic, which was prevalent before Covid, is bleeding into coverage. The media has for decades realized that doom and gloom and scare tactics sell. So that's a part of it too. But if a reporter talked to 10 people at the CDC to find out about something, and 1 of them loathed Trump and wanted to help get rid of him, and provided an unverified nugget that would make him look bad, which of the 10 takes are you going with? Multiply that across the whole country and every agency.

Dispassionate fact finding and truth seeking is harder and harder to find. The media in particular has destroyed its credibility, and we rely on that for our information. The politics of everything.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying home

Most new Covid-19 hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a “shocking” finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday.

The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing.

It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%.

Cuomo said nearly 84% of the hospitalized cases were people who were not commuting to work through car services, personal cars, public transit or walking. He said a majority of those people were either retired or unemployed. Overall, some 73% of the admissions were people over age 51.

He said the information shows that those who are hospitalized are predominantly from the downstate area in or around New York City, are not working or traveling and are not essential employees. He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic.


It's almost like this virus is most easily transmitted between people who live together. This also continues to show the same pattern of demographics who are most at risk. What a 'shock'.
 

balds

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Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying home

Most new Covid-19 hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a “shocking” finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday.

The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing.

It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%.

Cuomo said nearly 84% of the hospitalized cases were people who were not commuting to work through car services, personal cars, public transit or walking. He said a majority of those people were either retired or unemployed. Overall, some 73% of the admissions were people over age 51.

He said the information shows that those who are hospitalized are predominantly from the downstate area in or around New York City, are not working or traveling and are not essential employees. He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic.


It's almost like this virus is most easily transmitted between people who live together. This also continues to show the same pattern of demographics who are most at risk. What a 'shock'.
Researchers in Germany found (weeks/months ago) that the main course of transmission was long term sustained contact with an infected person(s). Family members and nursing homes would fit that description. Of course that didn't even warrant the slightest consideration here.
 

BarnBurner

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The current administration practically demands being hammered. That's one of the best things about the unfettered right to speech in this country: I can describe what I see and think in words in public.

You really ought to put me on ignore. It's clear that my posts really aggravate you, especially the ones where I describe what's going on without reservation or fear of judgement. Not only do I not care what you think, I know the truth and quality of my posts are high when it gets your goat.

Until you ignore me, I'm going to continue to point out how partisan and full of shit you are.
From the most partisan hack on gh!!!!
 

GophersInIowa

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It seems like everyone has an agenda. Especially among the media. I have almost no confidence in reporting anymore, especially as it relates to Trump. There's just no chance that anyone from the center to the left can be objective. They want to get rid of him. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I absolutely think that dynamic, which was prevalent before Covid, is bleeding into coverage. The media has for decades realized that doom and gloom and scare tactics sell. So that's a part of it too. But if a reporter talked to 10 people at the CDC to find out about something, and 1 of them loathed Trump and wanted to help get rid of him, and provided an unverified nugget that would make him look bad, which of the 10 takes are you going with? Multiply that across the whole country and every agency.

Dispassionate fact finding and truth seeking is harder and harder to find. The media in particular has destroyed its credibility, and we rely on that for our information. The politics of everything.
There is some truth to that IMO. So many people have resorted to social media for their information and that is even worse.
 

bga1

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Honest question for all of you here. It appears like we are going to spend 4 trillion in taxpayer money on these lock downs. That's if the economy opens up rapidly with little further spending commitments.
The initial lock downs were justifiable because China lied to us and we didn't know what we were dealing with. Initial estimates, such as the Imperial College scam, led us astray into thinking that this was BOTH highly contagious and deadly in the neighborhood of perhaps a 4% mortality rate with millions in the US dying. Shortly after the lock downs started we knew.

The question:

4 trillion dollars is about $12,000 for every man, woman and child in America. Would you be willing to write a check for $48,000 in order to NOT go to work and keep the economy going?
Effectively you did it, but you wrote the check out of your children's and grand children's accounts. Would you be willing to do that considering that 80% of the people who are dying in the US are old AND ill and most of them would have died anyway in a year? Or would you have begged for a different strategy that kept the whole economy open and asked for personal responsibility and cleanliness with an emphasis on sheltering and even fire walling the elderly?

Just a question....

We have the science community, the media and agenda driven politicians to blame.......and ourselves for being gullible enough to follow them.
 
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bga1

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Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying home

Most new Covid-19 hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a “shocking” finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday.

The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing.

It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%.

Cuomo said nearly 84% of the hospitalized cases were people who were not commuting to work through car services, personal cars, public transit or walking. He said a majority of those people were either retired or unemployed. Overall, some 73% of the admissions were people over age 51.

He said the information shows that those who are hospitalized are predominantly from the downstate area in or around New York City, are not working or traveling and are not essential employees. He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic.


It's almost like this virus is most easily transmitted between people who live together. This also continues to show the same pattern of demographics who are most at risk. What a 'shock'.
No shock to people with common sense. Easily ignored by people with none.
 

bottlebass

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Yes, but in the meantime they don't have that choice and they do make more money if the patient is labeled Covid than if that same patient is not. You missed the point.
You think that offsets the losses of cancelling elective procedures?
 

Section2

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From the most partisan hack on gh!!!!
How dare you insult Howie like this. There is no bigger hack than Howie. Bad is a good guy who is just listening to the wrong people.
 

Section2

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No shock to people with common sense. Easily ignored by people with none.
There is no correlation to between outbreaks, deaths, and lockdowns or SAH orders. None. It’s all over the map. So if we don’t know, why are we insisting on the most draconian policy response?
 
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