The new Corona virus, should we worry?

BarnBurner

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Where is the Jam Jam Clan to demand justice for this crime? Cuomo is a Jam Jam Clan leader....

justnofacts / justthelies?
WALLACE? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
GII?

ALL of them are SILENT about this crime.

ALL of them are hypocrites.
 

MplsGopher

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There is no scientific collaboration on the patient zeros of Covid-19.
Elaborate on this one, please.

Why are the lab records locked? Why were they locked in Sept 2019 never to be reopened again? What is in the “restricted section”? Where are the missing genomes of the samples from 2015? Why did China lie about human to human transmission they suddenly “remembered” months later (and no records or samples, of course). Why did China refuse any third party investigation for months until the WHO
Sure, these don't look good. I would like to know the answers too, as would many people.

But they don't prove anything.

2. Lack of (bat) animal hosts local to Wuhan, and lack of known intermediate hosts.
Who says there's a lack of resevoir animals near Wuhan? There are plenty. We don't know the host yet, that's one of things left to be learned.

a known to be shoddily-run BSL-4 facility engaged in secretive gain of function (virus breeding) of coronaviruses using human respiratory tissue as target in a culture not known for safety, attention to detail, or speaking out of turn is a disaster waiting to happen.
Agree it would be, if there was evidence of any of these things. I'm guess neither you, nor anyone else, has any such evidence.

Rather, this is what you want to be the truth. I don't know why. But it's what you want.

That said, it seems perfectly feasible to me. If it was somehow proven to be the truth, I wouldn't think like "no way, that's impossible!" I'd believe it.

But not without evidence.

importation via frozen foods, or brought to town by US soldiers.
I don't believe the frozen food idea, and I think the US soldiers idea was just to "get back at" the US for Trump being so bigoted about China and the Chinese people for the virus.

Of course it could have been a zoonotic crossover
Until evidence proves otherwise, this is the most reasonable thing to assume.
 

From the Parkinglot

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More than zero criticism, sure.

But how could anyone possibly say they should be fired from their jobs for making a decision that they didn't know would result in additional deaths, and in fact they thought they were doing it to save lives? And the situation hadn't happened before?

I think you have to cut them some slack, for a mistake, if that is indeed what it was.

can we start firing these people yet. They knowingly withheld information from the New York legislature, news papers and FEMA for fear of being prosecuted if the real numbers got out. That sounds like a cover up to me which I assume would be a cause for firing.
 

MplsGopher

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I'm not interested in litigating the past. My post was about Iowa rescinding covid restrictions (not just masks) and asking when we will do the same, as cases are plummeting and vaccinations are expanding.
Post #26026 implied that covid restrictions closed businesses (ie, in the past). That's what I was replying to. If you're giving up that point, fine.

But to your point, while MN restaurants were closed, restaurants were absolutely bustling in Hudson, WI the 8 or so times I was there in Nov/Dec. 31 MN plates in one restaurant parking lot one evening. So I'm quite confident that businesses with no restrictions will and would've done better than those with restrictions or being closed outright.
No need to cite results in Hudson, as we've already seen a few restaurants defy orders and open within Minn for some amount of time (the Lakeville one probably the most prominent) and were also quite busy.

But those are just a few restaurants. Not the whole population of restaurants in the TC.

The point is: with no restrictions at all, dining out demand still would've gone down somewhat. Let's say it went down to 70% of normal times. Would that have been enough to sustain all of the restaurants that had opened up to handle 100% of the demand? Likely no.
 

From the Parkinglot

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Yes, I read it. It doesn't say that.

It says they're telling NY Dems that they're sorry that this situation has put them in an awkward (appearing) situation.

They're not admitting any wrongdoing.
Wow could you be more obtuse.

we froze out of fear the true numbers would be released and used against us.

they stonewalled data requests from the New York post and the legislature.

what the hell more do you want to see it was a cover up. They only released the numbers they wanted to for fear of being prosecuted by the feds.
 

MplsGopher

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we froze out of fear the true numbers would be released and used against us.
The article does not even imply this.

It says: "According to the source, DeRosa said the administration essentially "froze" because it wasn't sure what information it was going to turn over to the DOJ, and didn't want whatever was told the lawmakers in response to the state joint committee hearing inquiries to be used against it in any way."

And that's not a direct quote from anyone.

they stonewalled data requests from the New York post and the legislature.
Well the Post doesn't matter. That's basically a tabloid.

They are going to turn over information to the investigation, of course, as is the law. It says so right in the quote above.

what the hell more do you want to see it was a cover up.
I think you want there to have been wrongdoing done, but I've not yet seen evidence of any such.
 

From the Parkinglot

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The article does not even imply this.

It says: "According to the source, DeRosa said the administration essentially "froze" because it wasn't sure what information it was going to turn over to the DOJ, and didn't want whatever was told the lawmakers in response to the state joint committee hearing inquiries to be used against it in any way."

And that's not a direct quote from anyone.


Well the Post doesn't matter. That's basically a tabloid.

They are going to turn over information to the investigation, of course, as is the law. It says so right in the quote above.

I think you want there to have been wrongdoing done, but I've not yet seen evidence of any such.
What evidence do you want? An aid telling the new York legislature that they lied about the numbers for months because they were worried about being prosecuted.

so the post is not a good news story. All the places have picked up on the story so I assume some vetting has gone into this story otherwise the likes of CNN would not be publishing it.

this is from Bob Woodward’s book about Trump. How is what the Cuomo administration any different than what Trump himself did. They both downplayed what was really happening and going to happen with this virus.
 

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MplsGopher

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What evidence do you want? An aid telling the new York legislature that they lied about the numbers for months because they were worried about being prosecuted.
Well, there is an active investigation into the matter. Why not just wait for that investigation to release its findings?

I would consider that to be meaningful evidence. Let's see what they find.
 

Spoofin

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What evidence do you want? An aid telling the new York legislature that they lied about the numbers for months because they were worried about being prosecuted.

so the post is not a good news story. All the places have picked up on the story so I assume some vetting has gone into this story otherwise the likes of CNN would not be publishing it.

this is from Bob Woodward’s book about Trump. How is what the Cuomo administration any different than what Trump himself did. They both downplayed what was really happening and going to happen with this virus.
Its different becasue Cuomo has "D" after his name.
 

short ornery norwegian

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MN Covid-19 Update - Fri, Feb 12

data reported by 4pm the previous day.

Positive cases 450,313 +908. Including probable cases 471,851.

Positive test rate 2.3%.

Health-Care workers with positive cases 37,167 +64.

Cases no longer needing isolation 457,359 +510.

Active Cases 8,130 +519.

Deaths 6,097 +16. Including probable deaths 6,362.

Deaths at long-term care and assisted living 3,885 +13.

Patients currently Hospitalized 326+6. Cumulative 25,047 +58.

Patients currently In ICU 73 -5. Cumulative 5,176 +8.

Total tests processed 6,535,718 +38,965.

Number of people tested 3,348,043 +10,253.
 

howeda7

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MN Covid-19 Update - Fri, Feb 12

data reported by 4pm the previous day.

Positive cases 450,313 +908. Including probable cases 471,851.

Positive test rate 2.3%.

Health-Care workers with positive cases 37,167 +64.

Cases no longer needing isolation 457,359 +510.

Active Cases 8,130 +519.

Deaths 6,097 +16. Including probable deaths 6,362.

Deaths at long-term care and assisted living 3,885 +13.

Patients currently Hospitalized 326+6. Cumulative 25,047 +58.

Patients currently In ICU 73 -5. Cumulative 5,176 +8.

Total tests processed 6,535,718 +38,965.

Number of people tested 3,348,043 +10,253.
Active cases seem to be going in the wrong direction multiple days in a row...
 

GophersInIowa

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Its different becasue Cuomo has "D" after his name.
It’s also different in that Democrats are willing to criticize him and take away his power when deserved even if he’s a fellow Democrat. Too bad we don’t see more of this on both sides.

 

Spoofin

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It’s also different in that Democrats are willing to criticize him and take away his power when deserved even if he’s a fellow Democrat. Too bad we don’t see more of this on both sides.

How could one NOT criticize him? The whole question was raised as folks on here were defending him. No need to make excuses for them.
 

From the Parkinglot

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It’s also different in that Democrats are willing to criticize him and take away his power when deserved even if he’s a fellow Democrat. Too bad we don’t see more of this on both sides.

I will believe it when they actually follow through with this. Right now it’s all just talk that could all be forgotten over the weekend.
 

From the Parkinglot

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Well, there is an active investigation into the matter. Why not just wait for that investigation to release its findings?

I would consider that to be meaningful evidence. Let's see what they find.
I would hope there is an investigating. New York loves to have grand juries and investigations of politicians.
 

GophersInIowa

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How could one NOT criticize him? The whole question was raised as folks on here were defending him. No need to make excuses for them.
Sorry it wasn’t clear to me you were only talking about one specific poster. Thought you were saying he’s not getting criticized by Democrats because he’s a democrat which is clearly not true. It’s nice to see people calling out and taking action against bad behavior regardless of party. That’s really been lacking lately.
 

Pompous Elitist

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Elaborate on this one, please.

Sure, these don't look good. I would like to know the answers too, as would many people.

Rather, this is what you want to be the truth. I don't know why. But it's what you want.

That said, it seems perfectly feasible to me. If it was somehow proven to be the truth, I wouldn't think like "no way, that's impossible!" I'd believe it.

But not without evidence.


I don't believe the frozen food idea, and I think the US soldiers idea was just to "get back at" the US for Trump being so bigoted about China and the Chinese people for the virus.


Until evidence proves otherwise, this is the most reasonable thing to assume.
AFAIK the earliest genome shared with the west was from a Wuhan patient admitted Jan 4. The hundreds of confirmed and suspected COV+ in Dec (or earlier) again AFAIK are not available. The mutations of samples from different clusters of infections can be sequenced, compared to estimate when the virus originated, where, etc.

To be clear, I’m not convinced it was a lab leak, or wasn’t. I’m reacting solely to what is by all appearances a white wash by a small band of conflicted researchers and the Chinese government. Your BS meter isn’t maxing out?

OK, your turn. American pig eye yankee propaganda for the communists here. Please refute each of these points. Thanks in advance.


1. Illnesses inside the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV):

  • The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses. This raises questions about the credibility of WIV senior researcher Shi Zhengli’s public claim that there was “zero infection” among the WIV’s staff and students of SARS-CoV-2 or SARS-related viruses.
  • Accidental infections in labs have caused several previous virus outbreaks in China and elsewhere, including a 2004 SARS outbreak in Beijing that infected nine people, killing one.
  • The CCP has prevented independent journalists, investigators, and global health authorities from interviewing researchers at the WIV, including those who were ill in the fall of 2019. Any credible inquiry into the origin of the virus must include interviews with these researchers and a full accounting of their previously unreported illness.
2. Research at the WIV:

  • Starting in at least 2016 – and with no indication of a stop prior to the COVID-19 outbreak – WIV researchers conducted experiments involving RaTG13, the bat coronavirus identified by the WIV in January 2020 as its closest sample to SARS-CoV-2 (96.2% similar). The WIV became a focal point for international coronavirus research after the 2003 SARS outbreak and has since studied animals including mice, bats, and pangolins.
  • The WIV has a published record of conducting “gain-of-function” research to engineer chimeric viruses. But the WIV has not been transparent or consistent about its record of studying viruses most similar to the COVID-19 virus, including “RaTG13,” which it sampled from a cave in Yunnan Province in 2013 after several miners died of SARS-like illness.
  • WHO investigators must have access to the records of the WIV’s work on bat and other coronaviruses before the COVID-19 outbreak. As part of a thorough inquiry, they must have a full accounting of why the WIV altered and then removed online records of its work with RaTG13 and other viruses.
3. Secret military activity at the WIV:

  • Secrecy and non-disclosure are standard practice for Beijing. For many years the United States has publicly raised concerns about China’s past biological weapons work, which Beijing has neither documented nor demonstrably eliminated, despite its clear obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention.
  • Despite the WIV presenting itself as a civilian institution, the United States has determined that the WIV has collaborated on publications and secret projects with China’s military. The WIV has engaged in classified research, including laboratory animal experiments, on behalf of the Chinese military since at least 2017.
  • The United States and other donors who funded or collaborated on civilian research at the WIV have a right and obligation to determine whether any of our research funding was diverted to secret Chinese military projects at the WIV.

 

Spoofin

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AFAIK the earliest genome shared with the west was from a Wuhan patient admitted Jan 4. The hundreds of confirmed and suspected COV+ in Dec (or earlier) again AFAIK are not available. The mutations of samples from different clusters of infections can be sequenced, compared to estimate when the virus originated, where, etc.

To be clear, I’m not convinced it was a lab leak, or wasn’t. I’m reacting solely to what is by all appearances a white wash by a small band of conflicted researchers and the Chinese government. Your BS meter isn’t maxing out?

OK, your turn. American pig eye yankee propaganda for the communists here. Please refute each of these points. Thanks in advance.


1. Illnesses inside the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV):

  • The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses. This raises questions about the credibility of WIV senior researcher Shi Zhengli’s public claim that there was “zero infection” among the WIV’s staff and students of SARS-CoV-2 or SARS-related viruses.
  • Accidental infections in labs have caused several previous virus outbreaks in China and elsewhere, including a 2004 SARS outbreak in Beijing that infected nine people, killing one.
  • The CCP has prevented independent journalists, investigators, and global health authorities from interviewing researchers at the WIV, including those who were ill in the fall of 2019. Any credible inquiry into the origin of the virus must include interviews with these researchers and a full accounting of their previously unreported illness.
2. Research at the WIV:

  • Starting in at least 2016 – and with no indication of a stop prior to the COVID-19 outbreak – WIV researchers conducted experiments involving RaTG13, the bat coronavirus identified by the WIV in January 2020 as its closest sample to SARS-CoV-2 (96.2% similar). The WIV became a focal point for international coronavirus research after the 2003 SARS outbreak and has since studied animals including mice, bats, and pangolins.
  • The WIV has a published record of conducting “gain-of-function” research to engineer chimeric viruses. But the WIV has not been transparent or consistent about its record of studying viruses most similar to the COVID-19 virus, including “RaTG13,” which it sampled from a cave in Yunnan Province in 2013 after several miners died of SARS-like illness.
  • WHO investigators must have access to the records of the WIV’s work on bat and other coronaviruses before the COVID-19 outbreak. As part of a thorough inquiry, they must have a full accounting of why the WIV altered and then removed online records of its work with RaTG13 and other viruses.
3. Secret military activity at the WIV:

  • Secrecy and non-disclosure are standard practice for Beijing. For many years the United States has publicly raised concerns about China’s past biological weapons work, which Beijing has neither documented nor demonstrably eliminated, despite its clear obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention.
  • Despite the WIV presenting itself as a civilian institution, the United States has determined that the WIV has collaborated on publications and secret projects with China’s military. The WIV has engaged in classified research, including laboratory animal experiments, on behalf of the Chinese military since at least 2017.
  • The United States and other donors who funded or collaborated on civilian research at the WIV have a right and obligation to determine whether any of our research funding was diverted to secret Chinese military projects at the WIV.

BOX
 

Pompous Elitist

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I think Michael knows this is a bad idea, deep down, but is going with his heart and hoping for the best. Maybe he’s concerned about the rough 24-48 hours after the second dose (~1/3 of Pfizer, 1/2 of Moderna experience brief flu-like symptoms) will scare some of the weak-kneed kids away and wants to get as many first doses out there as possible - despite predicted lower efficacy vs two dose re: the South African variant that has arrived? Personally I had moderate aches for 36 hours, chills and headache for 8 hours starting 12 hours post-injection. It wasn’t that bad. I’d do it again.

Moderna’s FDA application explicitly warns against putting a great deal of confidence in the statistics of the one dose regimen:

Additional Interim Efficacy Analyses
Additional analyses were done to assess efficacy against COVID-19 after one dose of mRNA- 1273. In participants in the mITT set who only received one dose of the vaccine at the time of the interim analysis, VE after one dose was 80.2% (95% CI 55.2%, 92.5%). These participants had a median follow-up time of 28 days (range: 1 to 108 days). The small, non-random sample and short median follow-up time limits the interpretation of these results. There appears to be some protection against COVID-19 disease following one dose; however, these data do not provide sufficient information about longer term protection beyond 28 days after a single dose.



 
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BarnBurner

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Check out his gem from our very own Poobah, Jam Jam himself:

3/23/20

"If you want straight talk out of a political leader, including discussions on restarting the economy as quickly and efficiently as feasible, check out any Andrew Cuomo daily briefing. He's on top of everything in NY, speaks in specifics (none of this "under the bold and decisive leadership of President Trump..." crap that Pence vomits daily) and he's realistic on the expectations front. If the management of this crisis could be turned over to Cuomo, Fauci and Birx, the country would be in better shape."

Own this one Poobah!!!!

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
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