The new Corona virus, should we worry?

short ornery norwegian

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Update (Sat, May 23rd - 3pm)
MN Gov Walz announces that places of worship may open starting May 27th. Worship services, weddings and funerals may be held - with a limit of 25% of listed capacity or a max of 250 people in the building. New guidelines recommend that social distancing continue. Also recommend use of recorded music or a solo singer who can be distant from rest of congregation.

In response to questions - no change at this time for bars and restaurants. Walz said federal govt needs to provide more financial assistance to small businesses.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Update (Sat, May 23rd - 3pm)
MN Gov Walz announces that places of worship may open starting May 27th. Worship services, weddings and funerals may be held - with a limit of 25% of listed capacity or a max of 250 people in the building. New guidelines recommend that social distancing continue. Also recommend use of recorded music or a solo singer who can be distant from rest of congregation.

In response to questions - no change at this time for bars and restaurants. Walz said federal govt needs to provide more financial assistance to small businesses.
Walz continues to make it up as he goes. He continues to say that if you don't agree with his policies, you don't believe COVID is a big deal, which is ridiculous.

More and more he's pointing the blame back at the federal government, and says they need to provide more assistance. Walz is the only one keeping these businesses closed. Bars, restaurants, gyms, etc are open in every state around us, or will be opening next week.
 

Bad Gopher

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Update (Sat, May 23rd - 3pm)
MN Gov Walz announces that places of worship may open starting May 27th. Worship services, weddings and funerals may be held - with a limit of 25% of listed capacity or a max of 250 people in the building. New guidelines recommend that social distancing continue. Also recommend use of recorded music or a solo singer who can be distant from rest of congregation.

In response to questions - no change at this time for bars and restaurants. Walz said federal govt needs to provide more financial assistance to small businesses.
I think he heard loud and clear that churches and their schools are going down financially, and that's a lot of jobs. I think they also told him that they can do this safely at 25 percent capacity.

The first part is true. The second part? As for us, we're going to continue churching online and look for a way to get communion on the side somehow.
 

Bad Gopher

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Walz continues to make it up as he goes. He continues to say that if you don't agree with his policies, you don't believe COVID is a big deal, which is ridiculous.

More and more he's pointing the blame back at the federal government, and says they need to provide more assistance. Walz is the only one keeping these businesses closed. Bars, restaurants, gyms, etc are open in every state around us, or will be opening next week.
All the leaders--public, private, whatever-- NEED to be figuring this out as they go. We're in new territory every day. It requires a flexible approach and a quickness to admit error and move on.
 

short ornery norwegian

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My gut feeling is that Walz was backed into a corner. Churches were saying they were going to open with or without permission from the state, and then Trump chimed in by claiming that he would over-ride governors and order that Churches be allowed to open.

so Walz basically made the best deal he could. it's a compromise - and like most compromises, no one is 100% happy but both sides got some of what they want.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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All the leaders--public, private, whatever-- NEED to be figuring this out as they go. We're in new territory every day. It requires a flexible approach and a quickness to admit error and move on.
I agree. Many states continue to adjust polices based on the data that has come in. Walz continues to pick and choose as we go, and little of it make sense. He just says 'data and Science' in his press conferences, but actions show that he's ignoring data and Science. Walz is not being flexible nor smart.

Large retail and grocery chains never closed, malls are now open, and now church with a capacity of up to 25%, up to 250 people. But we still can't go to small gyms, bars, restaurants, even in rural areas with little to no cases? Everywhere should be open with some restrictions, which is now the case across most of the country.
 

CutDownTheNet

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Hmm


In Los Angeles County, another effort has fallen short: A month after vowing to test all nursing home residents and staff, health officials have done so in only about a third of such facilities and have dramatically scaled back their plans for the rest. They're now calling for testing only a small sample of residents in nursing homes that have not had an outbreak. Some experts fear the move could lead to more deaths in a vulnerable population by letting the virus spread undetected. - LA Times
Perhaps the LA folks got wind of how great the non-testing approach was doing in Minnesota, and decided to employ the "Walz non-testing of the seniors in nursing homes methodology." Maybe they just want to beat Minnesota's 81% score by trying to rack up an 82% deaths in nursing homes and long-term care facilities.
 

Livingat45north

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Update (Sat, May 23rd - 3pm)
In response to questions - no change at this time for bars and restaurants. Walz said federal govt needs to provide more financial assistance to small businesses.
And, there so it begins. Trump has been saying for a month now we need to open the economy or small businesses are going to fail, Blue Gov's have refused, and now small (and large) businesses are indeed failing just like any logical person knew would happen. And now here come the Blue Gov's saying it's Trump's fault small business are failing, and the Blue Minions will probably parrot that nonsense.

Logic from the left --> If you're from Lagos or Caracus or any third-world country, welcome to the U.S., your free to come and do want you want, laws don't apply, just hang out in one of our many Blue sanctuary cities; but if you're from Eden Prairie or Blaine or any city in the U.S., you've got to stay home and can't do anything.
 

bga1

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And, there so it begins. Trump has been saying for a month now we need to open the economy or small businesses are going to fail, Blue Gov's have refused, and now small (and large) businesses are indeed failing just like any logical person knew would happen. And now here come the Blue Gov's saying it's Trump's fault small business are failing, and the Blue Minions will probably parrot that nonsense.

Logic from the left --> If you're from Lagos or Caracus or any third-world country, welcome to the U.S., your free to come and do want you want, laws don't apply, just hang out in one of our many Blue sanctuary cities; but if you're from Eden Prairie or Blaine or any city in the U.S., you've got to stay home and can't do anything.
Well stated. That's the game. Put the wrecking ball to everything, ask for the Federal government to pay for it and if they don't they are heartless. The media supports it all.
 

CutDownTheNet

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Here's what that Slate article had to say regarding the ongoing saga of Florida data transparency (or not) an the whole Jones affair ...

"There’s also reason to question the integrity of the data. Several Florida publications sued the state over its initial refusal to hand over data about nursing homes. And, the Miami Herald noted, the state tallies up numbers in inconsistent ways. An enormous disparity between state-reported testing numbers and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention numbers was discovered Tuesday. It’s not clear where that gap comes from, but it heightened concerns already raised last week, when the Florida Department of Health fired the data manager behind the state’s online coronavirus data site because of “a repeated course of insubordination.” The woman, Rebekah Jones, said in an email to CBS12 News in Tallahassee that she had been fired because she objected to orders to “manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen.” Internal emails indicated that Jones was fired after resisting orders from her bosses to cut off data so that users could no longer download it and to remove records of symptoms and positive tests posted before they were officially announced. The Tampa Bay Times also reported that after media requests about data, she had been asked to remove fields indicating when patients had begun experiencing symptoms. The news caused many critics to worry about the state’s dedication to transparency."

Just another data point. It still seems to be a she-said/he-said argument.
 

bga1

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My gut feeling is that Walz was backed into a corner. Churches were saying they were going to open with or without permission from the state, and then Trump chimed in by claiming that he would over-ride governors and order that Churches be allowed to open.

so Walz basically made the best deal he could. it's a compromise - and like most compromises, no one is 100% happy but both sides got some of what they want.
Where they ended up is totally reasonable- regarding churches. How they got there shows a total lack of reasoned leadership by Walz. He is hoping that all of his decisions get made for him- so he can blame others if anything goes wrong.
 

CutDownTheNet

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FWIW - from an article in the Mpls Star-Tribune on Friday - re: ICU capacity.

Metro hospitals are running short on intensive care unit beds due to an increase in patients with COVID-19 and other medical issues, prompting health officials to call for more public adherence to social distancing to slow the spread of the infectious disease........

The Minnesota Department of Health on Friday reported a record 233 patients with COVID-19 in ICU beds, but doctors and nurses said patients with other illnesses resulted in more than 95% of those beds in the Twin Cities to be filled........

At different times, Hennepin County Medical Center and North Memorial Health Hospital were diverting patients to other hospitals. Almost all heart-lung bypass machines were in use for severe COVID-19 patients and others at the University of Minnesota Medical Center and Abbott Northwestern Hospital in Minneapolis........

The state’s pandemic preparedness website as of Friday indicated that 1,045 of 1,257 available ICU beds were occupied by patients with COVID-19 or other unrelated medical conditions — and that another 1,093 beds could be readied within 72 hours.
So, the MN Covid stats just came out (see prior to the referenced post) and said 215 ICU beds occupied by Covid patients. But at about the same time, a total of 1,045 ICU beds occupied. 1,045 - 215 = 830.

So actually, we should worry about the number (830 + covid_icu_beds) exceeding ICU capacity (which is apparently 1,257 but could be expanded in short order to 2,350). I guess 830 + covid_icu_beds is a much higher total to worry about than covid_icu_beds by itself.
 
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Spoofin

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I think he heard loud and clear that churches and their schools are going down financially, and that's a lot of jobs. I think they also told him that they can do this safely at 25 percent capacity.

The first part is true. The second part? As for us, we're going to continue churching online and look for a way to get communion on the side somehow.
If that is true, why hasn't he heard the same from restaurant owners?
 

CutDownTheNet

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Let's keep the "how great is DeSantis and Florida doing" narrative going. With their manipulated numbers and their deceitful reporting tactics.




From yesterday:




DeSantis doesn't want to test staff and residents at nursing homes. Hmmm....wonder why.
Weird. First the LA folks adopt the Walz "non-testing at nursing homes" methodology, and now DeSantis of Florida. What the heck, is Walz putting up billboards advertising his aweful approach? Maybe he's trying to get some other state to hit 82% nursing-home deaths, to make our 81% look good by comparison.
 

CutDownTheNet

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I think he heard loud and clear that churches and their schools are going down financially, and that's a lot of jobs. I think they also told him that they can do this safely at 25 percent capacity.

The first part is true. The second part? As for us, we're going to continue churching online and look for a way to get communion on the side somehow.
Maybe drive-through communion at your local bar? Your choice out of 3 red wines. The bars could use the business, and 50% of the fee could go to your church of choice (we'll have an app for that).
 

BarnBurner

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I think he heard loud and clear that churches and their schools are going down financially, and that's a lot of jobs. I think they also told him that they can do this safely at 25 percent capacity.

The first part is true. The second part? As for us, we're going to continue churching online and look for a way to get communion on the side somehow.
So it took the churches and church schools being in financial ruin to get Bad off the dime. Go to the pub for a burger and beer after Mass.
 

BarnBurner

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Where they ended up is totally reasonable- regarding churches. How they got there shows a total lack of reasoned leadership by Walz. He is hoping that all of his decisions get made for him- so he can blame others if anything goes wrong.
Yup. His leadership is and has been abhorrent.
 

Bad Gopher

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Maybe drive-through communion at your local bar? Your choice out of 3 red wines. The bars could use the business, and 50% of the fee could go to your church of choice (we'll have an app for that).
We need more thinking like this.
 

Bad Gopher

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Bad finally found religion when Archbishop talked. Mom and pop pub owners can pound sand. Still.
All I said is how I think the conversation went. Not taking sides. I was taken aback at how the Weeble (Hebda) defied the state. It was obviously a power play and a negotiating ploy. Strength in numbers, which the small business owners don't have in the same way.
 

CutDownTheNet

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https://www.startribune.com/virus-cases-drop-to-zero-in-china-but-surge-in-latin-america/570717181/

"
Zero cases in China as virus surges in Latin America, India
"


Anyone remember when CRG was trying to bang the drum about how well Brazil was doing???

They're going to end up being the most ravaged country in the world, by the disease.

No surprise, their president is every bit of the mafia boss that Trump wishes he could be.
Interesting.

Brazil has popped up to #2 in total Covid-19 (diagnosed) cases, and that's in spite of their Tests / 1M Population beig extremely low relative to other countries. This chart is sorted by Total Cases ...

N/A
CountryTotal CasesNew CasesTotal DeathsNew DeathsTotal RecoveriesActive CasesSerious, CriticalCases / 1M PopDeaths / 1M PopTotal TestsTests / 1M PopPopulation
World
5,397,778​
99,686​
343,596​
4,171​
2,244,830​
2,809,352​
53,553​
692​
44.1​
USA
1,666,736​
21,757​
98,673​
1,026​
446,866​
1,121,197​
17,125​
5,039​
298​
14,363,279​
43,420​
330,795,837​
Brazil
347,398​
16,508​
22,013​
965​
142,587​
182,798​
8,318​
1,636​
104​
735,224​
3,462​
212,397,420​
Russia
335,882​
9,434​
3,388​
139​
107,936​
224,558​
2,300​
2,302​
23​
8,402,747​
57,581​
145,927,974​
Spain
282,370​
466​
28,678​
50​
196,958​
56,734​
1,152​
6,040​
613​
3,037,840​
64,977​
46,752,901​
UK
257,154​
2,959​
36,675​
282​
N/A
N/A​
1,559​
541​
541​
3,348,507​
49,353​
67,848,130
Italy
229,327​
669​
32,735​
119​
138,840​
57,752​
572​
3,792​
541​
3,391,188​
56,080​
60,470,956​
France
182,469​
250​
28,332​
43​
64,547​
89,590​
1,665​
2,796​
434​
1,384,633​
21,218​
65,258,400​
Germany
179,986​
273​
8,366​
14​
159,900​
11,720​
919​
2,149​
100​
3,595,059​
42,923​
83,755,775​
Turkey
155,686​
1,186​
4,308​
32​
117,602​
33,776​
775​
1,848​
51​
1,807,673​
21,459​
84,239,988​
Iran
133,521​
1,869​
7,359​
59​
104,072​
22,090​
2,633​
1,592​
88​
781,286​
9,315​
83,874,391​
India
131,423​
6,629​
3,868​
142​
54,385​
73,170​
8,944​
95​
3​
2,834,798​
2,056​
1,378,529,934​
Peru
115,754​
4,056​
3,373​
129​
47,915​
64,466​
909​
3,516​
102​
788,341​
23,947​
32,920,920​
Canada
83,621​
1,141​
6,355​
105​
43,305​
33,961​
502​
2,218​
169​
1,420,505​
37,673​
37,706,381​
China
82,971​
4,634​
78,258​
79​
9​
58​
3​
1,439,323,776​
Mexico
62,527​
2,960​
6,989​
479​
42,725​
12,813​
378​
486​
54​
201,838​
1,567​
128,785,048​
Belgium
56,810​
299​
9,237​
25​
15,155​
32,418​
259​
4,904​
797​
768,706​
66,358​
11,584,289​
Pakistan
52,437​
1,743​
1,101​
34​
16,653​
34,683​
111​
238​
5​
460,692​
2,090​
220,403,741​
Netherlands
45,064​
176​
5,811​
23​
N/AN/A
227​
2,631​
339​
313,755​
18,315​
17,130,906​
Ecuador
36,258​
430​
3,096​
40​
3,557​
29,605​
208​
2,059​
176​
105,462​
5,988​
17,613,161​
Sweden
33,188​
379​
3,992​
67​
4,971​
24,225​
265​
3,288​
396​
209,900​
20,798​
10,092,543​
Switzerland
30,725​
18​
1,905​
2​
28,000​
820​
51​
3,553​
220​
367,037​
42,443​
8,647,829​
Portugal
30,471​
271​
1,302​
13​
7,705​
21,464​
80​
2,987​
128​
689,705​
67,620​
10,199,740​
Ireland
24,582​
76​
1,604​
12​
21,060​
1,918​
54​
4,984​
325​
295,626​
59,943​
4,931,752​
Indonesia
21,745​
949​
1,351​
25​
5,249​
15,145​
80​
5​
239,740​
877​
273,208,135​
Romania
17,857​
145​
1,176​
10​
11,187​
5,494​
196​
928​
61​
361,566​
18,782​
19,250,526​

In fact, Brazil's Tests seem to be only slightly over 2X their Cases. If you do the math, we see that over 47% of Brazil's tests are turning up positive. This must mean that Brazil has an extreme shortage of tests (e.g., cases are exploding so rapidly that growth of testing bandwidth cannot keep up). Pretty soon, Brazil's reporting of new cases will be capped by available testing bandwidth. Brazil looks to be an experiment in "not shutting down hardly anything at all" - kind of like a Sweden but without the testing bandwidth that Sweden has had from the very beginning.

Nevertheless, Brazil is still ranked #6 in terms of total Covid-19 deaths. The following chart is sorted by Total Deaths ...

CountryTotal CasesNew CasesTotal DeathsNew DeathsTotal RecoveriesActive CasesSerious, CriticalCases / 1M PopDeaths / 1M PopTotal TestsTests / 1M PopPopulation
World
5,397,778​
99,686​
343,596​
4,171​
2,244,830​
2,809,352​
53,553​
692​
44.1​
USA
1,666,736​
21,757​
98,673​
1,026​
446,866​
1,121,197​
17,125​
5,039​
298​
14,363,279​
43,420​
330,795,837​
UK
257,154​
2,959​
36,675​
282​
N/A
N/A​
1,559​
3,790​
541​
3,348,507​
49,353​
67,848,130
Italy
229,327​
669​
32,735​
119​
138,840​
57,752​
572​
3,792​
541​
3,391,188​
56,080​
60,470,956​
Spain
282,370​
466​
28,678​
50​
196,958​
56,734​
1,152​
6,040​
613​
3,037,840​
64,977​
46,752,901​
France
182,469​
250​
28,332​
43​
64,547​
89,590​
1,665​
2,796​
434​
1,384,633​
21,218​
65,258,400​
Brazil
347,398​
16,508​
22,013​
965​
142,587​
182,798​
8,318​
1,636​
104​
735,224​
3,462​
212,397,420​
Belgium
56,810​
299​
9,237​
25​
15,155​
32,418​
259​
4,904​
797​
768,706​
66,358​
11,584,289​
Germany
179,986​
273​
8,366​
14​
159,900​
11,720​
919​
2,149​
100​
3,595,059​
42,923​
83,755,775​
Iran
133,521​
1,869​
7,359​
59​
104,072​
22,090​
2,633​
1,592​
88​
781,286​
9,315​
83,874,391​
Mexico
62,527​
2,960​
6,989​
479​
42,725​
12,813​
378​
486​
54​
201,838​
1,567​
128,785,048​
Canada
83,621​
1,141​
6,355​
105​
43,305​
33,961​
502​
2,218​
169​
1,420,505​
37,673​
37,706,381​
Netherlands
45,064​
176​
5,811​
23​
N/AN/A
227​
2,631​
339​
313,755​
18,315​
17,130,906​
China
82,971​
4,634​
78,258​
79​
9​
58​
3​
1,439,323,776​
Turkey
155,686​
1,186​
4,308​
32​
117,602​
33,776​
775​
1,848​
51​
1,807,673​
21,459​
84,239,988​
Sweden
33,188​
379​
3,992​
67​
4,971​
24,225​
265​
3,288​
396​
209,900​
20,798​
10,092,543​
India
131,423​
6,629​
3,868​
142​
54,385​
73,170​
8,944​
95​
3​
2,834,798​
2,056​
1,378,529,934​
Russia
335,882​
9,434​
3,388​
139​
107,936​
224,558​
2,300​
2,302​
23​
8,402,747​
57,581​
145,927,974​
Peru
115,754​
4,056​
3,373​
129​
47,915​
64,466​
909​
3,516​
102​
788,341​
23,947​
32,920,920​
Ecuador
36,258​
430​
3,096​
40​
3,557​
29,605​
208​
2,059​
176​
105,462​
5,988​
17,613,161​
Switzerland
30,725​
18​
1,905​
2​
28,000​
820​
51​
3,553​
220​
367,037​
42,443​
8,647,829​
Ireland
24,582​
76​
1,604​
12​
21,060​
1,918​
54​
4,984​
325​
295,626​
59,943​
4,931,752​
Indonesia
21,745​
949​
1,351​
25​
5,249​
15,145​
80​
5​
239,740​
877​
273,208,135​
Portugal
30,471​
271​
1,302​
13​
7,705​
21,464​
80​
2,987​
128​
689,705​
67,620​
10,199,740​
Romania
17,857​
145​
1,176​
10​
11,187​
5,494​
196​
928​
61​
361,566​
18,782​
19,250,526​
Pakistan
52,437​
1,743​
1,101​
34​
16,653​
34,683​
111​
238​
5​
460,692​
2,090​
220,403,741​


These charts show every country with more than 1,000 deaths, as of May 23 at 7:30 PM CDT.

I was curious whether it might be the heat and humidity of Brazil that may be keeping its deaths down while its cases were soaring. It looks like there's no evidence for that, since their Case Fatality Rate (CFR) is in the same ballpark as the US. Of course, we all know by now that CFR is not a very good statistic overall, and it's really IFR that we seek, but there's no good way to compare IFR across lots of countries, since each country is going to have a different multiplier (to divide into CFR to get IFR) representing how many times more total infected people there are than the detected cases (generally the ones who were tested and tested positive). That multiplier varies due to differences in exhaustiveness of testing, among other things. But with that caveat, I'll show the CFRs just to show the wide spread in CFR values across the countries with over 1,000 deaths.


CountryCase Fatality Ratio (CFR)
Russia
1.01%​
Pakistan
2.10%​
Turkey
2.77%​
Peru
2.91%​
India
2.94%​
Portugal
4.27%​
Germany
4.65%​
Iran
5.51%​
China
5.59%​
USA
5.92%​
Switzerland
6.20%​
Indonesia
6.21%​
Brazil
6.34%​
World
6.37%​
Ireland
6.53%​
Romania
6.59%​
Canada
7.60%​
Ecuador
8.54%​
Spain
10.16%​
Mexico
11.18%​
Sweden
12.03%​
Netherlands
12.89%​
UK
14.26%​
Italy
14.27%​
France
15.53%​
Belgium
16.26%​

One thing that does stand out is that Russia has an extremely low CFR of about 1%. I had heard rumors that Putin was trying to suppress the bad news by extremely under-counting their Covid deaths. Namely, rather than what the US does, as in (in most states) counting it a Covid death if the patient died from a comorbidity but it seems obvious that Covid either triggered the comorbidity event or in some way contributed to the death, it was claimed that in Russia Putin has instructed them to always attribute the death to the comorbidity alone if a comorbidity is involved, and never check the "Covid checkbox" unless there is no comorbidity to blame it on. In other words, the claim is that in Russia only the healthy that die of Covid are counted as Covid deaths. Well, with only a 1% CFR in Russia, that has to mean only one of two things:

(a) Russia is way under-counting their Covid deaths (as some sources have alleged).
(b) Russia is doing such extremely exhaustive testing that they are catching almost all Covid infections very early in the infection cycle, such that they are having extremely good results compared to the rest of the world.

However, a quick look shows that although Russia does rank 5th best of these 25 countries in terms of Tests per Million Population, it's not that much better than the US (who ranks 8th). So that tends to rule out (b) as the explanation. Does that definitively prove (a)? I suppose not. But it does look very likely that Putin is fudging the Russian Covid death numbers in order to try to minimize the chances of any grassroots rebellion overthrowing Putin on account of extremely high Covid-19 deaths.

I did a little thought experiment in which I multiplied Russia's deaths by 6, which is about the USA CFR (in round numbers) compared to Russia's (probably way underreported) 1% CFR. In other words, a fudge factor to approximately offset Putin's fudge factor. In that case, it brings Russia's Covid deaths per million population more in line with reality. It puts their deaths-per-million statistic in 13th place, right behind Canada (for reference, USA is in 9th place). To me, that says that (a) is very likely true. Here's the deaths-per-million statistics of the 25 countries with over 1,000 deaths (which gets rid of those very small countries with high death rates). Note that in the following table, I left the 6X factor in for Russia, now that we've tentatively concluded that Russia is indeed way-under-counting its Covid deaths.



CountryTrue Deaths / 1M Pop
Belgium
797​
Spain
613​
UK
541​
Italy
541​
France
434​
Sweden
396​
Netherlands
339​
Ireland
325​
USA
298​
Switzerland
220​
Ecuador
176​
Canada
169​
Russia
138​
Portugal
128​
Brazil
104​
Peru
102​
Germany
100​
Iran
88​
Romania
61​
Mexico
54​
Turkey
51​
World
44.1​
Indonesia
5​
Pakistan
5​
China
3​
India
3​

Europe takes the top 8 spots, with USA at #9. Sweden is 98-per-million higher than the US at this point in time, a sight increase in the gap from 90 at the last time I checked.
 
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saintpaulguy

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Where they ended up is totally reasonable- regarding churches. How they got there shows a total lack of reasoned leadership by Walz. He is hoping that all of his decisions get made for him- so he can blame others if anything goes wrong.
I will give you a bit of a ribbing here. You have given the Catholics a lot of static, but Bishop Hebda deserves some major credit here. His leadership made this possible.
 

bga1

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I will give you a bit of a ribbing here. You have given the Catholics a lot of static, but Bishop Hebda deserves some major credit here. His leadership made this possible.
Total hats off to the bishop on this issue. I was very surprised and appreciative considering that the catholic church leans pretty heavily liberal. So in my view what he and others did took a lot of courage. Good for them!
 

howeda7

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All the leaders--public, private, whatever-- NEED to be figuring this out as they go. We're in new territory every day. It requires a flexible approach and a quickness to admit error and move on.
Some folks think their %*)) don't stink and they've had it all figured out for weeks.
 

howeda7

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https://www.startribune.com/virus-cases-drop-to-zero-in-china-but-surge-in-latin-america/570717181/

"
Zero cases in China as virus surges in Latin America, India
"


Anyone remember when CRG was trying to bang the drum about how well Brazil was doing???

They're going to end up being the most ravaged country in the world, by the disease.

No surprise, their president is every bit of the mafia boss that Trump wishes he could be.
World Leaders doing the worst at handling this: Trump, Brazilian Trump, British Trump, Trump's puppet master. Coincidence?
 

howeda7

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My gut feeling is that Walz was backed into a corner. Churches were saying they were going to open with or without permission from the state, and then Trump chimed in by claiming that he would over-ride governors and order that Churches be allowed to open.

so Walz basically made the best deal he could. it's a compromise - and like most compromises, no one is 100% happy but both sides got some of what they want.
Once a significant portion of the population openly refuses to obey a law, it becomes essentially unenforceable. Whether it's weed, online gambling or this.
 

Section2

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Because they're better at vote counting than accurately reporting their statistics on this pandemic?
Going with the lie. Nice. You’d like this story then, the big dramatic NYTimes cover? Fraud.
 

Section2

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World Leaders doing the worst at handling this: Trump, Brazilian Trump, British Trump, Trump's puppet master. Coincidence?
worst governors at handling this: Cuomo, Walz, Whitmer. Coincidence? Haven’t seen you post about Kristi lately.
 

OldBob53

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All the tombstones row on row, freshly dug, where no grass grows.
 
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