The new Corona virus, should we worry?

CutDownTheNet

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
1,841
Reaction score
435
Points
83
Well she was fired for not doing what DeSantis was asking. So obviously, he and the rest of them have decided the next best route has been to attack her credibility. And I have pulled multiple articles that have mentioned her work on the dashboard. It doesn't sound like it was an "out of the box" plug and play system as PE wants you to believe. If that were the case....more and more states would have had similar setups. Fact is.....Florida was acknowledged early on by Dr. Brix for their dashboard and the amount of information that was available. Jones was behind the dashboard from the beginning. I believe pompous called her nothing more than a junior data entry person. Sounds like a fair assessment, huh?

On a side note....and Georgia has been criticized for this. I am not sure if this was the issue Florida had in this situation.....but on the topic of when to count positive tests. Seems fairly simple. Count them when they test positive. Trying to bring other factors in muddies the water. Georgia has been trying to back date them to when they first started noticing symptoms, and it's causing problems. They are showing different daily counts. They wanted to do this to show declining numbers as they opened up the state.....but almost no other states are doing it this way.

Maybe ESRI based their dashboard on copying Jones' work in Florida. If she did such a good job designing that dashboard, that requires some design savvy, so she's got to be more than a simple HTML hacker. Her masters was in GIS not data science, but she obviously picked up some of the latter along the way. She was a manager, not a grunt.
 

CutDownTheNet

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
1,841
Reaction score
435
Points
83
Not sure what the reason for your post was, but I am glad you kept it shorter than usual.
I actually thought your post was a nice concise summary of how badly Walz has done. And I immediately envisioned it on a protest sign, for some reason. Perhaps a flashback to my radical days.
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
40,869
Reaction score
2,439
Points
113
I actually thought your post was a nice concise summary of how badly Walz has done. And I immediately envisioned it on a protest sign, for some reason. Perhaps a flashback to my radical days.
The confederate flag part made it seem that you had a different intent. Thanks for the clarification.
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
40,869
Reaction score
2,439
Points
113
Interesting deflection. Wonder why. Glad to see you aren’t MIA like the others.
It would not be hard. The state has blown billions of state money and the money of business people screwing this up. If they would have instead designated some building or hospitals to receive recovering seniors, it would have cost some money but they could have done it.

We also could have been innovated with the nursing homes and their help by offering them hazard pay to stay quarantined, work a couple weeks on and then a week off and be retested to reenter work. The nursing homes should have been where the testing was first allocated and they should have kept them fire walled. Minnesota had more time to analyze this than most other states since it started later here.

Total failure.
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
19,155
Reaction score
806
Points
113
It would not be hard. The state has blown billions of state money and the money of business people screwing this up. If they would have instead designated some building or hospitals to receive recovering seniors, it would have cost some money but they could have done it.

We also could have been innovated with the nursing homes and their help by offering them hazard pay to stay quarantined, work a couple weeks on and then a week off and be retested to reenter work. The nursing homes should have been where the testing was first allocated and they should have kept them fire walled. Minnesota had more time to analyze this than most other states since it started later here.

Total failure.
To think of all the things the federal government/Trump could have done. Not been telling people to not worry about the virus (it's a hoax, under control, fifteen to zero), securing companies to start building up stockpiles of PPE, working with the CDC on guidelines and recommendations, etc.

All stems from Trump claiming to know more than the experts, making Pence the corona czar, and continuing to pass blame onto others.

Complete failure from Trump and company. Weakest leadership from the White House in centuries.
 

Pompous Elitist

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
14,798
Reaction score
1,135
Points
113
Maybe ESRI based their dashboard on copying Jones' work in Florida. If she did such a good job designing that dashboard, that requires some design savvy, so she's got to be more than a simple HTML hacker. Her masters was in GIS not data science, but she obviously picked up some of the latter along the way. She was a manager, not a grunt.
Satire is the finest form of humor. :cool:
 

Pompous Elitist

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
14,798
Reaction score
1,135
Points
113
Hmm


In Los Angeles County, another effort has fallen short: A month after vowing to test all nursing home residents and staff, health officials have done so in only about a third of such facilities and have dramatically scaled back their plans for the rest. They're now calling for testing only a small sample of residents in nursing homes that have not had an outbreak. Some experts fear the move could lead to more deaths in a vulnerable population by letting the virus spread undetected. - LA Times
 

Pompous Elitist

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
14,798
Reaction score
1,135
Points
113
Well she was fired for not doing what DeSantis was asking. So obviously, he and the rest of them have decided the next best route has been to attack her credibility. And I have pulled multiple articles that have mentioned her work on the dashboard. It doesn't sound like it was an "out of the box" plug and play system as PE wants you to believe. If that were the case....more and more states would have had similar setups. Fact is.....Florida was acknowledged early on by Dr. Brix for their dashboard and the amount of information that was available. Jones was behind the dashboard from the beginning. I believe pompous called her nothing more than a junior data entry person. Sounds like a fair assessment, huh?

On a side note....and Georgia has been criticized for this. I am not sure if this was the issue Florida had in this situation.....but on the topic of when to count positive tests. Seems fairly simple. Count them when they test positive. Trying to bring other factors in muddies the water. Georgia has been trying to back date them to when they first started noticing symptoms, and it's causing problems. They are showing different daily counts. They wanted to do this to show declining numbers as they opened up the state.....but almost no other states are doing it this way.

It looks like every other state arcGIS dashboard, complete with resource hungry, clunky interface. It looks nice, and looks sophisticated in the Bloomberg way which impresses administrators, enabling sales and makes ESRI money but it’s a pain in the ass to use on a mobile device or ipad. Personally I despise the user interface. Florida dashboard:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429
 

mplarson7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
160
Points
63
Learn to read. For certain age groups (perhaps below 60) it might be. I am open to FACTS to the contrary.
I'm only open to discussions with people who don't misrepresent data by arbitrarily discounting entire groups of people.
 

GopherJake

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
16,852
Reaction score
428
Points
83
It would not be hard. The state has blown billions of state money and the money of business people screwing this up. If they would have instead designated some building or hospitals to receive recovering seniors, it would have cost some money but they could have done it.

We also could have been innovated with the nursing homes and their help by offering them hazard pay to stay quarantined, work a couple weeks on and then a week off and be retested to reenter work. The nursing homes should have been where the testing was first allocated and they should have kept them fire walled. Minnesota had more time to analyze this than most other states since it started later here.

Total failure.
Interesting ideas. How many states did this?
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
14,208
Reaction score
1,982
Points
113
The Ferguson Empire model has proven to be wildly pessimistic invalidating this study. The direct and indirect costs of too strict lockdowns OTOH are tremendous.
Maybe, but as you said about the deaths, they'll largely average out across the country and world.

It won't be possible to tell who did it "better".

And thus, those who took the more cautious approach, will be looked on more kindly in the history books.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
14,208
Reaction score
1,982
Points
113

Spoofin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
16,002
Reaction score
1,681
Points
113
I'm only open to discussions with people who don't misrepresent data by arbitrarily discounting entire groups of people.
If you are looking for discussions with people that aren’t arbitrarily discounting certain data then you have come to the wrong place. Actually, you better stay off the internet and television all together.
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
9,365
Reaction score
1,014
Points
113
Minnesota Covid-19 Update - Saturday, May 23rd.
data reported by 4pm the previous day.

Positive Cases 19,845 +847.

Patients no longer needing isolation 13,485 +789.

Deaths 852 +10.

Deaths at long-term care and assisted living facilities 697 +9

Patients Hospitalized 568 +34.

Patients In ICU 215 -18.

Total tests processed 189,493 +8552.
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
9,365
Reaction score
1,014
Points
113
FWIW - from an article in the Mpls Star-Tribune on Friday - re: ICU capacity.

Metro hospitals are running short on intensive care unit beds due to an increase in patients with COVID-19 and other medical issues, prompting health officials to call for more public adherence to social distancing to slow the spread of the infectious disease........

The Minnesota Department of Health on Friday reported a record 233 patients with COVID-19 in ICU beds, but doctors and nurses said patients with other illnesses resulted in more than 95% of those beds in the Twin Cities to be filled........

At different times, Hennepin County Medical Center and North Memorial Health Hospital were diverting patients to other hospitals. Almost all heart-lung bypass machines were in use for severe COVID-19 patients and others at the University of Minnesota Medical Center and Abbott Northwestern Hospital in Minneapolis........

The state’s pandemic preparedness website as of Friday indicated that 1,045 of 1,257 available ICU beds were occupied by patients with COVID-19 or other unrelated medical conditions — and that another 1,093 beds could be readied within 72 hours.
 

Pompous Elitist

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
14,798
Reaction score
1,135
Points
113
^^^It would be nice to have a rundown of the demographics of the MN caseload. I imagine the people on ECMO machines are younger eg 40 or 50 something family man or mother, for example; they must think those unfortunate people have a fighting chance to survive but perhaps they are attempting ECMO on older people with more comorbidities as resources currently allow. Is anyone reporting on more in-depth numbers?

It would also be nice to know the disposition of the Nobles County cohort - number hospitalized, ICU, recovered. They reopened the plant May 4th I believe? What is happening in Nobles County since then?
 

Spoofin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
16,002
Reaction score
1,681
Points
113
1045/1257 is 83%, not 95%. Still, seems like a high number. (22% filled with COVID patients). Walz keeps telling us the worst is yet to come - have we started that 72-hour clock?
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
40,869
Reaction score
2,439
Points
113
Interesting ideas. How many states did this?
Florida, for one, blitzed the nursing homes with testing and didn't let any covid patients in. No one did the optimal strategy, but just because something doesn't get done doesn't mean it wasn't possible or should not have. Almost all of the testing early should have been nursing home staff. If you ever have been in a nursing home, many of them have a lot of staff that barely speak the language can come from cultures that don't have a clue on hygiene. So this is another area where diversity, while it seems like such a cool concept, can really do some damage at times like this.

I just spent time with a native Swede yesterday. He is in contact with his family. He said that their strategy is working very well, except for they got hit in the nursing homes early because, again, the quality of the staffs, mostly Somalians, is poor. It sounds bad, but it is just the truth.
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
40,869
Reaction score
2,439
Points
113
1045/1257 is 83%, not 95%. Still, seems like a high number. (22% filled with COVID patients). Walz keeps telling us the worst is yet to come - have we started that 72-hour clock?
Makes me wonder if the lack of "elective" surgeries for two months put some people into dire health straits..... Secondary damage of the strategy? The state knows the stats but we don't and likely will not.
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
40,869
Reaction score
2,439
Points
113
I'm only open to discussions with people who don't misrepresent data by arbitrarily discounting entire groups of people.
How could you participate then? It looks to me like you faced a few facts there and you ran, because you don't have anything.
 

Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
44,646
Reaction score
1,697
Points
113
NPR reported that in April, hospitals laid off 1.4 million workers. Given that our entire strategy early on was to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, how can anyone defend our decisions? Madness.
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
40,869
Reaction score
2,439
Points
113
NPR reported that in April, hospitals laid off 1.4 million workers. Given that our entire strategy early on was to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, how can anyone defend our decisions? Madness.
Wouldn't a creative strategy have rerouted those workers to nursing homes as part of a fire walling effort? Imagine if the states would have financed that with additional hazard pay (perhaps double the normal pay for three months)- there would have been a lot of those who would have jumped in to help.

Possibly a better way to spend money than paying unemployment and ruining lives...
 
  • Like
Reactions: SDR

Pompous Elitist

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
14,798
Reaction score
1,135
Points
113
1045/1257 is 83%, not 95%. Still, seems like a high number. (22% filled with COVID patients). Walz keeps telling us the worst is yet to come - have we started that 72-hour clock?
It helps to keep hospitalization numbers down by shipping back to the nursing homes.

With the current linear growth in cases, new hospitalization (we have to assume these numbers as MN doesn't supply them) it will take months to reach 1257. That is time that could be used to prepare staff, stockpile supplies, and whatnot. Or not. There could also be an effort to keep it out of nursing homes which may reduce the load. Anything happening on that front? Walz backers?
 

GoodasGold

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
9,573
Reaction score
564
Points
113
The economy is in the shitter. Unemployment at astounding levels. Look who is steering the ship. Captain Ahab.
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
19,155
Reaction score
806
Points
113
Florida, for one, blitzed the nursing homes with testing and didn't let any covid patients in. No one did the optimal strategy, but just because something doesn't get done doesn't mean it wasn't possible or should not have. Almost all of the testing early should have been nursing home staff. If you ever have been in a nursing home, many of them have a lot of staff that barely speak the language can come from cultures that don't have a clue on hygiene. So this is another area where diversity, while it seems like such a cool concept, can really do some damage at times like this.
Let's keep the "how great is DeSantis and Florida doing" narrative going. With their manipulated numbers and their deceitful reporting tactics.

The state first released data detailing deaths in long-term care facilities last week under pressure from the Miami Herald and other news organizations, who filed a lawsuit over denial of public records. As with last week’s data, the report raised a number of questions. For instance, there were eight facilities on the newly updated list of long-term care deaths then that didn’t appear on a list of homes with COVID-19 cases — as opposed to deaths — released earlier in the day.

From yesterday:

As Florida nursing home deaths tick upward, widespread testing stalls
Amid calls for widespread testing in nursing homes, Florida’s governor has hesitated.

The White House recommended it. Experts have called for it. Nursing homes have begged for it. Gov. Ron DeSantis, however, has stepped back, saying elder-care facilities can decide on their own whether to test residents and staff for COVID-19 — but the state won’t mandate it.

Florida doesn’t have the resources, he said at a May 15 news conference in Doral. Instead, he encouraged long-term care facilities to get their staff tested at different drive-thru and walk-up sites, according to the Sun-Sentinel.

But experts and advocates agree: to contain the pandemic, and quell the death toll of Florida’s most vulnerable residents, nursing homes need a massive testing rollout.

“If you know that a very high percentage of the people in your state are dying in nursing homes, then you want to get out to every single one,” said U.S. Rep. Donna Shalala, D-Coral Gables, who is co-sponsoring a bill in Congress aimed at protecting nursing homes from the virus. “We’re trying to save lives here. We cannot waste any time.”

Coronavirus has ravaged long-term care centers across the state, with about 46 percent of deaths tied to the facilities, according to state data. As of Friday, 1,043 deaths in the state were from these centers. In Tampa Bay, about 61 percent of the area’s deaths are from long-term care facilities, with 196 dead, according to state data.

Tampa Bay is home to the deadliest outbreak in the state: the retirement community Freedom Square of Seminole, where 31 residents and one employee have died so far.

As of Thursday, 537 long term care facilities in Florida reported at least one positive test among residents or staff.

In Florida, testing employees of long-term care facilities is only mandatory when conducted by a National Guard strike team deployed there.

While Florida lags, states such as Pennsylvania, Texas and West Virginia have announced plans to test all employees and residents of nursing homes. Arizona’s governor coordinated a public-private partnership to achieve universal testing at all long-term care facilities. New York put the onus on nursing homes, requiring each facility to submit a plan for how they will test employees twice a week.

A spokeswoman for DeSantis did not respond to multiple requests for comment. The governor briefly touched on long-term care facilities during a news conference Friday in Jacksonville.

"If you just continue working with these long-term care facilities, that really does seem to be where most of this ball game is," he said, "and I think from the very beginning, we put a lot of emphasis on that."

Advocacy groups say federal and state funds could be diverted to help fund a widespread testing effort, though they differ on the best way to get there.

Two of the largest advocacy groups representing nursing homes this week estimated that testing all of Florida’s nursing home residents and staff just once would cost more than $25 million for about 169,000 tests. The American Health Care Association and the National Center of Assisted Living based their estimate off one test costing $150, and called for $10 billion in additional federal funding to pay for extra staffing, testing and protective gear in the coming months.

On Friday, the federal government allocated an additional $4.9 billion to nursing homes to help with labor shortages, testing capacity and other pandemic-related expenses. But Mark Parkinson, president and CEO of the industry lobbying groups, noted that assisted-living facilities, which also house vulnerable seniors, had not yet received direct federal aid.

“We are asking for additional consideration for all long term care facilities, whether it be in regard to additional testing, personal protective equipment, or funding,” Parkinson said in a statement.

Families for Better Care, an advocacy group run by the former ombudsman for Florida’s long term care facilities, said the trade groups’ estimate is inflated. Brian Lee, the former ombudsman, said it would be more cost-effective to use the more than $225 million federal officials have already collected in nursing home fines to install rapid testing machines at every facility, allowing staff and residents to get tested frequently.

“We could do it a whole lot cheaper — really for free — for the taxpayer,” Lee said.

The fines are collected by the federal Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and can be deployed for initiatives that help long term care facilities better support their residents. During the pandemic, the fund has already been directed to nursing homes to buy tablets and web-cams so they can connect residents with their families during lockdown.

“CMS could do the same for rapid testing machines,” Lee said. He estimated Florida’s fund could purchase at least 3,000 testing machines.

Florida’s Agency for Health Care Administration said it is discussing this possibility with federal officials.

The Florida Health Care Association, which represents nursing homes across the state, agrees that testing would be a good use of the fine money, said spokeswoman Kristen Knapp.

Facilities don’t take on any of the cost when the Department of Health gets involved, Knapp said. But if they want to take on testing themselves, cost becomes an impediment. The association estimated that just a week’s worth of $150 tests for every nursing home employee in the state would cost about $14 million, she said. That figure only multiplies for ongoing testing.

But Shalala said there’s no reason that tests should have to cost that much. To drive the cost down, she said the federal government should negotiate purchasing on behalf of all nursing homes nationwide.

"If you're going to let them (nursing centers) out on their own and send them each a check, it's going to cost a lot of money,” she said. “It's the perfect responsibility for the response of the federal government."

Shalala this week co-introduced a bill, the Nursing Home COVID-19 Protection and Prevention Act, that would allocate $20 billion to help fund additional testing and personal protective equipment for nursing homes, among other initiatives. The federal CARES Act, passed in response to the pandemic, also provided $200 million to support nursing home infection control and $100 billion to reimburse health care providers for expenses and lost revenue connected to the coronavirus, some of which could be deployed to nursing homes.

“There is plenty of money that the United States of America is prepared to spend on testing,” she told the Tampa Bay Times. “Whatever the price tag is, it’s not too high to protect our loved ones.”

Michael Barnett, a professor of health policy and management at the Harvard T. H. Chan School of Public Health, said testing every resident and staff member is vital to containing the pandemic — but it can’t happen just once.

“It's not going to do anything for the situation three months from now,” he said.

The state banned all visitors to elder-care facilities on March 15. DeSantis has said he’d like to allow visitors to return. Barnett said frequent testing of everyone in long term care facilities could pave the way. But he said introducing visitors without widespread testing could be dangerous and spur more deadly outbreaks.

“That only makes sense if, collectively, Floridians and the government have decided this is a battle they can’t win,” he said.

Barnett said the argument that testing is too expensive is disingenuous. If tests cost too much, he said, there needs to be a way to make testing cheaper — not just accept that fewer people can be tested.

“What are we capable of doing if we can’t actually come up with a coherent, systematic plan for nursing homes?” he said. “Literally, the most vulnerable population.”

DeSantis doesn't want to test staff and residents at nursing homes. Hmmm....wonder why.
 

jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
21,018
Reaction score
687
Points
113
Florida, for one, blitzed the nursing homes with testing and didn't let any covid patients in. No one did the optimal strategy, but just because something doesn't get done doesn't mean it wasn't possible or should not have. Almost all of the testing early should have been nursing home staff. If you ever have been in a nursing home, many of them have a lot of staff that barely speak the language can come from cultures that don't have a clue on hygiene. So this is another area where diversity, while it seems like such a cool concept, can really do some damage at times like this.

I just spent time with a native Swede yesterday. He is in contact with his family. He said that their strategy is working very well, except for they got hit in the nursing homes early because, again, the quality of the staffs, mostly Somalians, is poor. It sounds bad, but it is just the truth.
News Flash: Beggar announces that dark skinned people are dirty.
 
Top Bottom