The Lincoln Project: Real Republicans Standing Up

justthefacts

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BTW, this cartoon basically encapsulates the whole point.

You can have been the Exec Dir of the Texas GOP and can have worked for Gramm, Rubio, Kasich, Grassley, Dole, Romney, McCain, Bush 1, and Bush 2 and you're a RINO.

You can support Democrats for years, abandon fiscal conservatism, abandon free trade, and abandon any checks on executive power and you're not a RINO.

That's the state of the Republican party today, and that's why these guys think it must go beyond Trump.
 

KillerGopherFan

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BTW, this cartoon basically encapsulates the whole point.

You can have been the Exec Dir of the Texas GOP and can have worked for Gramm, Rubio, Kasich, Grassley, Dole, Romney, McCain, Bush 1, and Bush 2 and you're a RINO.

You can support Democrats for years, abandon fiscal conservatism, abandon free trade, and abandon any checks on executive power and you're not a RINO.

That's the state of the Republican party today, and that's why these guys think it must go beyond Trump.
If I were you, I wouldn’t be trash talking about the state of the opposition party. The Democrat Party is a shell of itself.
 

justthefacts

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If I were you, I wouldn’t be trash talking about the state of the opposition party. The Democrat Party is a shell of itself.
CONSERVATIVES: Biden can't change anything, he's been in Washington forever!

ALSO CONSERVATIVES: The Democratic Party looks nothing like it did 30 years ago!

BTW, this completely avoids the point of the discussion, which is whether it makes sense for the Lincoln Project to work against the election of GOP incumbents
 
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KillerGopherFan

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CONSERVATIVES: Biden can't change anything, he's been in Washington forever!

ALSO CONSERVATIVES: The Democratic Party looks nothing like it did 30 years ago!

BTW, this completely avoids the point of the discussion, which is whether it makes sense for the Lincoln Project to work against the election of GOP incumbents
I don’t give a hoot (tame word for howie) about the Lincoln Project. They’re ego bruised elitist conservatives with zero pragmatism. And they don’t have conservative principles if they’re willing to turn the country over to lefties.

Regarding your first point, I think you’ve completely missed the conservative message. Biden is an empty vessel. He’s told what to say in speeches, Tweets, and when asked questions. Biden’s campaign promises are dictated by positions that will please the far left of his party.

You can hate on Trump and I can admit he makes plenty of missteps, but it is Trump’s will, with the assistance from his cabinet and advisors, that is running the Trump Administration, not the other way around like it would be for Biden.

Biden would be the puppet President. So it is entirely consistent that Biden isn’t an agent of change, but his Administration would be an agent of change for the far left. And yes, the old Democrat Party would be canceled for their opinions of 25 years ago.
 

From the Parkinglot

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CONSERVATIVES: Biden can't change anything, he's been in Washington forever!

ALSO CONSERVATIVES: The Democratic Party looks nothing like it did 30 years ago!

BTW, this completely avoids the point of the discussion, which is whether it makes sense for the Lincoln Project to work against the election of GOP incumbents
The Democratic Party has not changed at all. What has changed is the few loud voices now get all the news because of social media and a 24 7 news cycle. The Democratic Party choose an old white guy who has been in politics for 40 years as their presidential candidate. They kick aside females, people of color, homosexuals, and white people to pick Joe Biden. That is not change.
 

cjbfbp

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The Democratic Party has not changed at all. What has changed is the few loud voices now get all the news because of social media and a 24 7 news cycle. The Democratic Party choose an old white guy who has been in politics for 40 years as their presidential candidate. They kick aside females, people of color, homosexuals, and white people to pick Joe Biden. That is not change.
Biden is the nominee because he was the only candidate left who had enough support in the states after the early primaries to take out Sanders. Most of the primary electorate did not want Sanders so they fully cooperated.
 

Section2

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It's truly insane that 29% of Republicans would even consider voting for Don Jr. as a presidential candidate and that more would prefer him than Nikki Haley.
You put far more stock in an online survey monkey poll than I do. But sure, freak out about the 2024 field.
 

Section2

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Biden is the nominee because he was the only candidate left who had enough support in the states after the early primaries to take out Sanders. Most of the primary electorate did not want Sanders so they fully cooperated.
Ha. The party leaders didn’t want Bernie. The people did. The party cheated him twice.
 

jamiche

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Ha. The party leaders didn’t want Bernie. The people did. The party cheated him twice.
Ha. Hillary got 3.5M more votes than The Bern and Biden got 7M more votes than Bern. Unless there are millions of party leaders, our pfc deuce needs to retake his history class.
 

jamiche

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I don’t give a hoot (tame word for howie) about the Lincoln Project. They’re ego bruised elitist conservatives with zero pragmatism. And they don’t have conservative principles if they’re willing to turn the country over to lefties.

Regarding your first point, I think you’ve completely missed the conservative message. Biden is an empty vessel. He’s told what to say in speeches, Tweets, and when asked questions. Biden’s campaign promises are dictated by positions that will please the far left of his party.

You can hate on Trump and I can admit he makes plenty of missteps, but it is Trump’s will, with the assistance from his cabinet and advisors, that is running the Trump Administration, not the other way around like it would be for Biden.

Biden would be the puppet President. So it is entirely consistent that Biden isn’t an agent of change, but his Administration would be an agent of change for the far left. And yes, the old Democrat Party would be canceled for their opinions of 25 years ago.
Speaking of puppetry, it must be an odd coincidence that your Messiah tweets out an echo of what he has just watched on fox and his policy proposals seem to conform tightly to fox's nightly "hosts" positions on issues.
 

cjbfbp

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Ha. The party leaders didn’t want Bernie. The people did. The party cheated him twice.
That's absolute nonsense. Sanders was defeated soundly - twice - in the Democratic primaries by Democratic rank and file voters. The only way party leadership could have overruled the choice of the voters was by way of the superdelegates and neither primary ever came to that.

The machinations after the South Carolina primary may have been engineered by party leadership but they were fully endorsed by the substantial majority of the primary voters. The only way one could consider Sanders as "the people's choice" is if he had managed to win the plurality share in a crowded primary. That never happened.

Perhaps the most nauseating thing about you (and there is some competition here among your nauseating traits) is that you insist on professing to be an expert on all things regardless of the levels of your knowledge and understanding about them. That reveals an appalling lack of good-sense modesty coupled with an overbearing neediness.
 

howeda7

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I don’t give a hoot (tame word for howie) about the Lincoln Project. They’re ego bruised elitist conservatives with zero pragmatism. And they don’t have conservative principles if they’re willing to turn the country over to lefties.

Regarding your first point, I think you’ve completely missed the conservative message. Biden is an empty vessel. He’s told what to say in speeches, Tweets, and when asked questions. Biden’s campaign promises are dictated by positions that will please the far left of his party.

You can hate on Trump and I can admit he makes plenty of missteps, but it is Trump’s will, with the assistance from his cabinet and advisors, that is running the Trump Administration, not the other way around like it would be for Biden.

Biden would be the puppet President. So it is entirely consistent that Biden isn’t an agent of change, but his Administration would be an agent of change for the far left. And yes, the old Democrat Party would be canceled for their opinions of 25 years ago.
Ironic. They are the few actual Conservatives left. And you hate them. Whether their "burn it down" strategy will work or not, they're not pursuing it because they love Biden or Dems. But they see it as the only option.

This "Biden is a stand-in/empty vessel" stuff is such crap. He hasn't done anything that any other candidate in any other cycle wouldn't do. He has his issues, as the campaign goes along he incorporates some other candidates ideas and drifts a bit to the left. After winning he will try to work back to the center. None of it suggests he's going to become some frothing "leftist" Bernie Sanders clone. You desperately want it to be so, because it's the only way you can win.

Biden's cabinet will be filled with mostly centrist Obama Dems. Trump's cabinet will be a dumpster fire at this point, because almost every competent person in it has already quit. And I doubt they'll come back for another round.
 

jamiche

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That's absolute nonsense. Sanders was defeated soundly - twice - in the Democratic primaries by Democratic rank and file voters. The only way party leadership could have overruled the choice of the voters was by way of the superdelegates and neither primary ever came to that.

The machinations after the South Carolina primary may have been engineered by party leadership but they were fully endorsed by the substantial majority of the primary voters. The only way one could consider Sanders as "the people's choice" is if he had managed to win the plurality share in a crowded primary. That never happened.

Perhaps the most nauseating thing about you (and there is some competition here among your nauseating traits) is that you insist on professing to be an expert on all things regardless of the levels of your knowledge and understanding about them. That reveals an appalling lack of good-sense modesty coupled with an overbearing neediness.
Our white nationalists are very worried about what life might be like without trump. That's why they are going to hit the streets with guns (pfc deuce will have a squirt gun) if he loses. Nov-Jan are going to be very scary months in this country.
 

howeda7

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Our white nationalists are very worried about what life might be like without trump. That's why they are going to hit the streets with guns (pfc deuce will have a squirt gun) if he loses. Nov-Jan are going to be very scary months in this country.
I wish you were joking. This will be avoided if Trump gets smoked. But if it's close...
 

justthefacts

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Ha. The party leaders didn’t want Bernie. The people did. The party cheated him twice.
The Democratic party is so socialist that they worked against the socialist candidate so they could install the moderate and then force him to do what the socialist candidate wants.
 

scools12

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Our white nationalists are very worried about what life might be like without trump. That's why they are going to hit the streets with guns (pfc deuce will have a squirt gun) if he loses. Nov-Jan are going to be very scary months in this country.
I wish you were joking. This will be avoided if Trump gets smoked. But if it's close...
It as if these two have no clue who has been protesting since 2016.

The current riots, burning of cities and surge of violent crime in liberal ran cites - nothing to see there.

What going on right now isn't scary at all. Just peaceful protesters blowing off steam..

The liberal way is to accuse others of doing exactly what they are doing.
 

Section2

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The Democratic party is so socialist that they worked against the socialist candidate so they could install the moderate and then force him to do what the socialist candidate wants.
They worked against the communist candidate. Socialism is now a mainstream Democrat view. If we're being honest, even Republicans tolerate and advocate for far too much socialism.
The communists are gaining power. You and every other liberal progressive will be faced with a choice in the not too distant future.
 

Section2

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That's absolute nonsense. Sanders was defeated soundly - twice - in the Democratic primaries by Democratic rank and file voters. The only way party leadership could have overruled the choice of the voters was by way of the superdelegates and neither primary ever came to that.

The machinations after the South Carolina primary may have been engineered by party leadership but they were fully endorsed by the substantial majority of the primary voters. The only way one could consider Sanders as "the people's choice" is if he had managed to win the plurality share in a crowded primary. That never happened.

Perhaps the most nauseating thing about you (and there is some competition here among your nauseating traits) is that you insist on professing to be an expert on all things regardless of the levels of your knowledge and understanding about them. That reveals an appalling lack of good-sense modesty coupled with an overbearing neediness.
He was defeated so soundly that he was winning comfortably until the party orchestrated the dropping out of a few select candidates to ensure his defeat.
Honestly, it is so amazing to me that progs here will talk about how the party leaders knew they had a short window to stop Bernie, stopped him, and then in the same breath argue that the people decided. Those two ideas are contradictory. You don't know that?!?
 

KillerGopherFan

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Ironic. They are the few actual Conservatives left. And you hate them. Whether their "burn it down" strategy will work or not, they're not pursuing it because they love Biden or Dems. But they see it as the only option.

This "Biden is a stand-in/empty vessel" stuff is such crap. He hasn't done anything that any other candidate in any other cycle wouldn't do. He has his issues, as the campaign goes along he incorporates some other candidates ideas and drifts a bit to the left. After winning he will try to work back to the center. None of it suggests he's going to become some frothing "leftist" Bernie Sanders clone. You desperately want it to be so, because it's the only way you can win.

Biden's cabinet will be filled with mostly centrist Obama Dems. Trump's cabinet will be a dumpster fire at this point, because almost every competent person in it has already quit. And I doubt they'll come back for another round.
Had Biden said anything that wasn’t written for him? Trump speaks off the cuff. It’s real. Biden is totally scripted. Poorly scripted, but scripted.
 

cjbfbp

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He was defeated so soundly that he was winning comfortably until the party orchestrated the dropping out of a few select candidates to ensure his defeat.
Honestly, it is so amazing to me that progs here will talk about how the party leaders knew they had a short window to stop Bernie, stopped him, and then in the same breath argue that the people decided. Those two ideas are contradictory. You don't know that?!?
What do you not understand about the following: a plurality of support in a crowded primary doesn't equal majority support? Sanders twice demonstrated that he did not have majority support among the party electorate. The reasons for this are very simple:

1) a large share of the party electorate is moderate or center-left (that is backed by survey evidence);

2) Sanders was considered too socialist by too many Democratic party voters;

3) Sanders never got much traction with African American voters other than the youngest ones;

4) Sanders made durable enemies because of his conduct in the 2016 primary contest.

There's nothing contradictory at all in what I said before. Party leaders were concerned in 2020, did something about it, and the majority of voters agreed with them. If Sanders had so much support, then why did his share of the vote not increase much at all after the primary became a two-man affair? Sanders was the classic "high floor-low ceiling" candidate. Another thing that hurt him in 2020 was the switch from the caucus to a primary in a number of states which showed that some of his 2016 support was artificially inflated due to the caucus format.

Do you have a obsessive-compulsive personality disorder? A normal person would just go away and privately concede that it's not in his best interest to continue this fight.
 

Section2

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What do you not understand about the following: a plurality of support in a crowded primary doesn't equal majority support? Sanders twice demonstrated that he did not have majority support among the party electorate. The reasons for this are very simple:

1) a large share of the party electorate is moderate or center-left (that is backed by survey evidence);

2) Sanders was considered too socialist by too many Democratic party voters;

3) Sanders never got much traction with African American voters other than the youngest ones;

4) Sanders made durable enemies because of his conduct in the 2016 primary contest.

There's nothing contradictory at all in what I said before. Party leaders were concerned in 2020, did something about it, and the majority of voters agreed with them. If Sanders had so much support, then why did his share of the vote not increase much at all after the primary became a two-man affair? Sanders was the classic "high floor-low ceiling" candidate. Another thing that hurt him in 2020 was the switch from the caucus to a primary in a number of states which showed that some of his 2016 support was artificially inflated due to the caucus format.

Do you have a obsessive-compulsive personality disorder? A normal person would just go away and privately concede that it's not in his best interest to continue this fight.
Why did they need to do something about it if the majority of voters agreed with them? They did something about it. This wasn't an organic process. That's fine, political parties can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned, you can always vote 3rd party or the opposition if you have a problem with it. But I just can't abide these two thoughts:
party leaders took action to stop Sanders
Biden was the choice of the voters
Those same party leaders in 2016 gave Hillary the debate questions and rigged the primary in her favor. I guess "voters narrowly chose Hillary" is proof that it was all on the up and up.

You're giving jet fuel to the communists in your mist (or maybe you are one) by rigging things to stop Sanders. That's my concern.
 

cjbfbp

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Biden was the choice of the voters
Those same party leaders in 2016 gave Hillary the debate questions and rigged the primary in her favor. I guess "voters narrowly chose Hillary" is proof that it was all on the up and up.

You're giving jet fuel to the communists in your mist (or maybe you are one) by rigging things to stop Sanders. That's my concern.
The first statement isn't quite right. Biden wasn't necessarily the first choice of the voters but he was the compromise consolidation choice and it had to be done very quickly or the consolidation would be too late. The majority of the party (both the leadership and the electorate) did not want Sanders to be the nominee but they would be almost forced to give it to him if he succeeded in getting through the primaries with something like 35% of the vote and a plurality of the delegates.

In 2016, Trump did not go over 50% in a state primary until New York in April but by then it was far too late to stop him because he won too many primaries and delegates with a minority of the vote. He still only won 45% of the primary vote overall despite having little or no opposition after early May. The Democrats didn't want to make the same mistake.

The second statement isn't true either. Voters didn't "narrowly" choose Hillary over Sanders. She beat him handily. The contest was for all practical purposes over by April but he wouldn't concede until the convention.

I don't worry about the "communists." That's your obsession.
 

howeda7

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Unique to Republicans? No.

Fair enough. But Michelle Obama is also reasonably intelligent, competent and would also be a centrist in her party politically. Trump is none of the above, yet R's have totally sold out to him.
 

howeda7

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Excuse me but who in the world has been rioting since Trump got elected?
No one has been rioting "since Trump got elected." The very recent riots have little to do with Trump.

Who grabbed their guns and stormed state-houses because they couldn't get a hair-cut?
 

howeda7

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Had Biden said anything that wasn’t written for him? Trump speaks off the cuff. It’s real. Biden is totally scripted. Poorly scripted, but scripted.
ZZZ. Have you ever bothered to watch an interview with him that wasn't a 7 second edited clip?
 
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