The hatred of the left on full display

GopherJake

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That is what we call the "Barnburner fallacy." You are allowed to assert an opinion without addressing the complete totality of all similar instances. I condemn this crazy person. Are you satisfied? Is the goal of your post achieved?
Terse summation. BGA, please respond to this.

Also, BGA, find another term for what you call "the left." You are misusing an already established term. How about "far left?" Or "left wing nut jobs?" You offend a lot of folks with your current misuse. Maybe you don't care?
 

John Galt

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I'm getting tired of the endless categorization of the "left" and the "right" as if everyone fits in one of two boxes. Someone started a thread a few weeks ago that asked what positions do you disagree with your own party, which I thought was one of the more interesting threads we've had on here in a while.

Beeg- everything isn't a war, it's not always us vs. them, right vs. wrong, etc. Intelligent people have different opinions and show up on different places on the political spectrum on certain issues.
 

stocker08

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It certainly comes from the other direction that way. But okay, that's your opinion. I think that if the leftists and even more importantly the moderates on the left don't call out this kind of awful behavior, more and more violence will arise. They won't listen to people from the right- so it has to be the left or better, the liberals that changes this. We can agree to disagree on this.

This morning I heard that Jacob Frye actually penned a letter wishing out loud that there was some way to prevent Trump from coming to his city. That's the left for you. I'm tired of it and frustrated - no doubt about it. I think they are ruining the country. You may disagree and that's fine.
You started a thread about an obviously crazed b1tch and then proceeded to say that "this is how the left thinks". Nobody in their right mind was going to come to her defense. So of course you are going to get attacked for your characterization of the left. One of two things occurred here. You were trolling. It was a poor troll if that's the case....but it's still way better than what's behind door two. You actually believe what you typed. In that case....you are as loony as the person in the video that you posted. Probably crazier.
 

bga1

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Terse summation. BGA, please respond to this.

Also, BGA, find another term for what you call "the left." You are misusing an already established term. How about "far left?" Or "left wing nut jobs?" You offend a lot of folks with your current misuse. Maybe you don't care?
Well look, we could ask people to find another word for racist. Or right wing nut job. Or boot licker. If we are going to start a personal improvement thread certainly I can improve. How can you improve? Maybe not use the sexual references you do? You don't seem to worry about offending people. But hey, maybe you just don't care.

I will offer this, these categories are too broad. I think in terms of leftists who are socialists, climate change globalists, PC people who restrict speech and who favor giant government solutions to everything- free this free that, tax the rich for it and use bogus math to justify it all. I think there are others on this site who are liberals- who still like free speech. I'd say spg is a liberal and probably bottlebass. But if I divide it up like that someone might say- hey I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. It gets tricky.
 

bga1

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That is what we call the "Barnburner fallacy." You are allowed to assert an opinion without addressing the complete totality of all similar instances. I condemn this crazy person. Are you satisfied? Is the goal of your post achieved?
The big problem here Gopher NE is we have all been arguing with each other too long. One thread's troubles get pulled into the next. Someone on the left posts a thread about how bad the right is (let's say Cruze or El Amin) and then we go at it. Then I or someone on the right posts a thread saying how bad the left is-to possible show them that they might be hypocrites and on it goes. Personally, I would much rather debate on substance and honest information, but it usually doesn't end up that going that way with the posters here because of the old baggage. I think that what I posted was in bounds but if I want to be better than those I oppose it would be better if I steer away from a blanket statement

Better yet, maybe I should just stay on the basketball board and forget about this mess. I consider the GH OT board a bad habit at this point. I am truly sad about the state society is in and from my point of view, I think the left is ruining the country (not the liberals the left). I think that the hatred for President Trump is just off the charts ridiculous. I don't think anyone is going to change my mind on that. I think that the liberals are the best bet for bringing the far left back to reality, but right now, it appears that the moderate liberals are scared to death of the left.

Thanks for posting.
 

GopherJake

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Well look, we could ask people to find another word for racist. Or right wing nut job. Or boot licker. If we are going to start a personal improvement thread certainly I can improve. How can you improve? Maybe not use the sexual references you do? You don't seem to worry about offending people. But hey, maybe you just don't care.

I will offer this, these categories are too broad. I think in terms of leftists who are socialists, climate change globalists, PC people who restrict speech and who favor giant government solutions to everything- free this free that, tax the rich for it and use bogus math to justify it all. I think there are others on this site who are liberals- who still like free speech. I'd say spg is a liberal and probably bottlebass. But if I divide it up like that someone might say- hey I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. It gets tricky.
Asinine response to a reasonable request.
 

GopherJake

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I'm getting tired of the endless categorization of the "left" and the "right" as if everyone fits in one of two boxes. Someone started a thread a few weeks ago that asked what positions do you disagree with your own party, which I thought was one of the more interesting threads we've had on here in a while.

Beeg- everything isn't a war, it's not always us vs. them, right vs. wrong, etc. Intelligent people have different opinions and show up on different places on the political spectrum on certain issues.
+50 trillion. Great post. Get a clue, BGA.
 

bga1

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You started a thread about an obviously crazed b1tch and then proceeded to say that "this is how the left thinks". Nobody in their right mind was going to come to her defense. So of course you are going to get attacked for your characterization of the left. One of two things occurred here. You were trolling. It was a poor troll if that's the case....but it's still way better than what's behind door two. You actually believe what you typed. In that case....you are as loony as the person in the video that you posted. Probably crazier.
Thank you!
 

GopherNE

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The big problem here Gopher NE is we have all been arguing with each other too long. One thread's troubles get pulled into the next. Someone on the left posts a thread about how bad the right is (let's say Cruze or El Amin) and then we go at it. Then I or someone on the right posts a thread saying how bad the left is-to possible show them that they might be hypocrites and on it goes. Personally, I would much rather debate on substance and honest information, but it usually doesn't end up that going that way with the posters here because of the old baggage. I think that what I posted was in bounds but if I want to be better than those I oppose it would be better if I steer away from a blanket statement

Better yet, maybe I should just stay on the basketball board and forget about this mess. I consider the GH OT board a bad habit at this point. I am truly sad about the state society is in and from my point of view, I think the left is ruining the country (not the liberals the left). I think that the hatred for President Trump is just off the charts ridiculous. I don't think anyone is going to change my mind on that. I think that the liberals are the best bet for bringing the far left back to reality, but right now, it appears that the moderate liberals are scared to death of the left.

Thanks for posting.
Agreed, your post was not out of the norm on this board. There's just too much ego, not enough empathy. People want to feel heard/understood before they are ready to open their mind. Blanket, absolutest statements like "the left is ruining this country" is the quickest way to get someone to dig in and shut down. If you don't have the patience for nuanced conversation, there is probably not much value for you on this board.

Oh, and I don't post much because following the news circus as closely as you guys sounds so exhausting. I can barely keep up with the sports news. I come here to try and learn talking points.
 

bga1

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Agreed, your post was not out of the norm on this board. There's just too much ego, not enough empathy. People want to feel heard/understood before they are ready to open their mind. Blanket, absolutest statements like "the left is ruining this country" is the quickest way to get someone to dig in and shut down. If you don't have the patience for nuanced conversation, there is probably not much value for you on this board.

Oh, and I don't post much because following the news circus as closely as you guys sounds so exhausting. I can barely keep up with the sports news. I come here to try and learn talking points.
Good call. :)

As far as patience, I have shown years of it here, explaining information over and over again to some of these folks. But after a while you put something out and get back "infowars" "racist" "tin foil hat conspiracy theorist" or some other "bad source" type of retort and you let fly on them.

One last thing- I actually believe that the left is ruining the country (see California for an exhibit of this)- should I not be honest about it? I could list the ways, but I won't bore you with it.
 

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The hatred of one person who is more likely than not a Trump supporter on full display.

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Bad Gopher

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If the Left ISN'T in a bad mood, I'm wondering WTF is wrong with them.
 

Cruze

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If the Left ISN'T in a bad mood, I'm wondering WTF is wrong with them.
Count me among the Lefties who is f*cking pissed off. And there is nothing wrong with me.
 

MplsGopher

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Agreed, your post was not out of the norm on this board. There's just too much ego, not enough empathy. People want to feel heard/understood before they are ready to open their mind. Blanket, absolutest statements like "the left is ruining this country" is the quickest way to get someone to dig in and shut down. If you don't have the patience for nuanced conversation, there is probably not much value for you on this board.

Oh, and I don't post much because following the news circus as closely as you guys sounds so exhausting. I can barely keep up with the sports news. I come here to try and learn talking points.
That's what you'll get then, from bga, kgf, and crg. They are, for the most part, narrative-bots. Whatever narrative is on sale at the sites they prowl daily, is what they sling back here.

It's too bad, because they're obviously smart guys. But there's not much point trying to have an honest, good faith discussion with them. They believe what they want to believe, which is usually an extreme, radical position, and won't budge an inch in most cases.
 

bga1

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Count me among the Lefties who is f*cking pissed off. And there is nothing wrong with me.
Except that in your own words- you are full of hatred and the hatred energizes you. That is sick. I can pull up the quote if you need me to. Let me know.
 

MplsGopher

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Maybe it is sad, but hate/anger energizes humans (to vote). That is simply the fact.

And it energizes them to be loud minorities.


That's how you get a handful -- well less than a majority -- of anti-government/snake flag fliers in Bloomington, St Paul, etc. who are able to prevent organized trash collection. Being a__holes just for the sake of being a__holes, when it is proven to be a better strategy for all.

As an example.
 

saintpaulguy

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Maybe it is sad, but hate/anger energizes humans (to vote). That is simply the fact.

And it energizes them to be loud minorities.


That's how you get a handful -- well less than a majority -- of anti-government/snake flag fliers in Bloomington, St Paul, etc. who are able to prevent organized trash collection. Being a__holes just for the sake of being a__holes, when it is proven to be a better strategy for all.

As an example.
Organized trash collection has not been prevented, it's been implemented. As is the right of citizens in St. Paul, a referendum will now be held on the matter. I'm against. The city has totally over reached on this one. Interesting that zero wasters are in on the no vote.

We don't have a true single hauler system, the city just permanently carved out service areas for each existing hauler, with the end result that we have fewer haulers, and no choice. My cart price went up, and I have to fill out paperwork for a vacation hold. Really an example of corporate socialism from the get go, with the winners big national haulers.
 

MplsGopher

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Organized trash collection has not been prevented, it's been implemented. As is the right of citizens in St. Paul, a referendum will now be held on the matter. I'm against. The city has totally over reached on this one. Interesting that zero wasters are in on the no vote.

We don't have a true single hauler system, the city just permanently carved out service areas for each existing hauler, with the end result that we have fewer haulers, and no choice. My cart price went up, and I have to fill out paperwork for a vacation hold. Really an example of corporate socialism from the get go, with the winners big national haulers.
I would think clearly you don't support having 10 trash trucks in the same neighborhood? So would you support a single hauler servicing the whole city, like in Mpls?

If it happened to be the hauler that you had contracted before, great for you. But then someone else would complain.

It is impossible to make 100% of people happy. That's why you do what's best for the greater good. That's the point of society.
 

saintpaulguy

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The 10 trucks thing wasn't happening. The smart haulers would give discounts for referrals form neighbors. We already have a block captain to coordinate the alley plowing, that person also passed on the discount info for the dominant hauler on the block. If you can get a better deal on your own, great. The alley wearing out? We've had 8 tear downs on this block. The construction equipment is doing the damage, not the garbage trucks.

I liked having billing by the hauler, now the city has its nose in it, and I want them back out.

I used to live in Minneapolis, and I moved.

The greater good? Are you trying to get me to reveal my inner objectivist? :cool:
 

MplsGopher

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The 10 trucks thing wasn't happening. The smart haulers would give discounts for referrals form neighbors. We already have a block captain to coordinate the alley plowing, that person also passed on the discount info for the dominant hauler on the block. If you can get a better deal on your own, great. The alley wearing out? We've had 8 tear downs on this block. The construction equipment is doing the damage, not the garbage trucks.

I liked having billing by the hauler, now the city has its nose in it, and I want them back out.

I used to live in Minneapolis, and I moved.

The greater good? Are you trying to get me to reveal my inner objectivist? :cool:
That's well and good for your block, but have you studied every block in the city? How do you know that your block isn't an outlier?


I don't live in St Paul, so I don't get to have an opinion that ultimately matters.

But I remain unconvinced by you that St Paul should allow it to go back to the way it was. Organized, central collection is always going to be better for all parties involved, *on average*. That will mean, unfortunately perhaps, that some people who did indeed have it better in the old system, will get marginalized out.


Then bringing it back to my ultimate point: just because you're angry and loud, doesn't mean your feelings should get higher weight than the majority, who are happy and silent.
 
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JimmyJamesMD

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That's well and good for your block, but have you studied every block in the city? How do you know that your block isn't an outlier?


I don't live in St Paul, so I don't get to have an opinion that ultimately matters.

But I remain unconvinced by you that St Paul should allow it to go back to the way it was. Organized, central collection is always going to be better for all parties involved, *on average*. That will mean, unfortunately perhaps, that some people who did indeed have it better in the old system, will get marginalized out.


Then bringing it back to my ultimate point: just because you're angry and loud, doesn't mean your feelings should get higher weight than the majority, who are happy and silent.
How do you know anything about the happy and silent if you dont vote on it?
 

MplsGopher

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How do you know anything about the happy and silent if you dont vote on it?
The last sentence was a general point. Silent doesn't mean you don't vote.

But it means you don't raise a big stink about it, and get a law that was already passed (and indirectly voted on, via the city elections) put back on the ballot.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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The last sentence was a general point. Silent doesn't mean you don't vote.

But it means you don't raise a big stink about it, and get a law that was already passed (and indirectly voted on, via the city elections) put back on the ballot.
That's stupid. So if an electoral body passes a really stupid law, the citizens arent allowed to do something about it? Just have to wait until next election?
 

MplsGopher

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That's stupid. So if an electoral body passes a really stupid law, the citizens arent allowed to do something about it? Just have to wait until next election?
Now you took it too far in the other direction. Nobody, including me, said you aren't allowed to try to do something about it.

I said -- again -- that just because you're loud and angry, doesn't mean your opinion should get a larger weighting than the many happy, silent opinions who are out there but aren't expressing themselves as vigorously.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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Count me among the Lefties who is f*cking pissed off. And there is nothing wrong with me.
Broke, I think it's immediately apparent to even the most causal of observers that you have been pissed off and angry for the better part of the last 50 years.
 

Section2

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I would think clearly you don't support having 10 trash trucks in the same neighborhood? So would you support a single hauler servicing the whole city, like in Mpls?

If it happened to be the hauler that you had contracted before, great for you. But then someone else would complain.

It is impossible to make 100% of people happy. That's why you do what's best for the greater good. That's the point of society.
The point of society is that you don't get to decide for yourself, smarter people will decide for you. This idea has never failed in history.
 
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