The coming lockdown extension.

jamiche

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My money is where my mouth is. I just exercised capitalism and purchased brunch at a local restaurant to bring home. Didn't need the government to make the call, pick up the meal or eat it.

As for Somalia, it's another great example of warlords controlling the market and resulting in misery and shortages.

Government has its function. Ensure free and fair trade for the market to succeed. Provide basic infrastructure around various services such as gas, electricity and travel. Provide police protection against warlords and thugs.

Then...get out of the way.

You seem to want to suck at the teet of government. Look at Venezuela to see how great your system works.
How do you think the food got to the restaurant safely and at a price you could afford? How do you know the restaurant was sanitary? How do you know the structure where the food was made was safe?
 

RememberMurray

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How do you think the food got to the restaurant safely and at a price you could afford? How do you know the restaurant was sanitary? How do you know the structure where the food was made was safe?
He has no clue. He never thought about those things.
 

MennoSota

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How do you think the food got to the restaurant safely and at a price you could afford? How do you know the restaurant was sanitary? How do you know the structure where the food was made was safe?
Safety and affordable price is due to the free market. Check out quality food and prices in Venezuela to see the difference.
We don't know if it's sanitary at the restaurant. Food poisoning happens. We don't know the food was processed safely.
All we know is that we have a government organization charged with trying to watchdog over working conditions.
Mostly, however, customers determine if they will eat at a restaurant based upon service, cleanliness and quality. No government watchdog needed.
 

RememberMurray

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Safety and affordable price is due to the free market. Check out quality food and prices in Venezuela to see the difference.
We don't know if it's sanitary at the restaurant. Food poisoning happens. We don't know the food was processed safely.
All we know is that we have a government organization charged with trying to watchdog over working conditions.
Mostly, however, customers determine if they will eat at a restaurant based upon service, cleanliness and quality. No government watchdog needed.
Laughable. Fantasyland. Ayn Rand BS.

Read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. A book that literally changed the world.
 

MennoSota

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Laughable. Fantasyland. Ayn Rand BS.

Read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. A book that literally changed the world.
I have read it. It's not the Bible, but it was a wake-up call for working conditions. I believe unions are a part of the free market. People join together and make their demands as one. That changes how the supply is created. These are good things.
What we learn from the present situation is that government control generally botches supply and demand, making materials scarce and inefficient. When business is able to take the lead and provide the supply, it is much more efficient.
If you pay attention, because of government controls, certain businesses are receiving much greater government funding to create materials it turns out weren't needed at that level of production. Yet, since government is paying top dollar, there is no incentive to change.
Let the demand dictate and you will see better efficient use of resources.
Economics has proven this point consistently, yet it seems you choose to ignore data and facts while choosing an ideology instead.
 

howeda7

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Good question. I am under the idea that the small shops have to basically do curb side orders and no one can go inside the store. But, of course that is not what the big box stores have been required to do. Instead, because they have diversified products in the store, they have labeled themselves essential while the small shops that are individualized cannot open because they didn't meet the "essential" designation.
At present, I'm hearing of mom and pop stores that are dropping out because the government has handcuffed them.
This isn't a fair playing field.
If true, that isn't fair. Limit to so many customers per SF and apply it equally.
 

howeda7

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How do you think the food got to the restaurant safely and at a price you could afford? How do you know the restaurant was sanitary? How do you know the structure where the food was made was safe?
The free market ensured all of the above.
 

mjfelton15

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What do you do when a woman you're not attracted to hits on you? Get insecure and lash out, or say "no thanks."? It's probably hard to answer theoretical questions. Never mind.
When did I say I get insecure and lash out if a gay guy hits on me? I said I have an issue with it, never said I make a scene. I do say “no thanks, I’m straight”. Not sure where you began to assume I don’t know how to conduct myself in public. If a girl hits on me and she’s not attractive I have the same reaction basically, except I don’t have to say I’m straight to a woman.
 

Spoofin

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Down with government subsidies, you communists! Now don't you dare touch my social security and my Medicare.
Let’s dissect this one a little as your statement is at best ignorant.

Pop Quiz: where do you think the money for SS and Medicare comes from? I’ll assume you know the answer.

Do you think that someone who doesn’t agree with the SS program is still advocating to pay into the program their entire working life? Or is it more logical that maybe they are saying I don’t want to pay into it and then I won’t ask for anything at the back end?

Your comment is so incredibly dumb as it is trying to say someone should be OK paying into the program their entire life, but then because they don’t like Government programs like it they shouldn’t care if they get their money back at the end. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Of course someone who has paid into the program their whole life will want (some percentage of) their money back at the end.

A better representation would be if folks would rather not pay in and then not collect. Now, doesn’t seem so hypocritical does it? The problem is we don’t have that choice because the government has decided they need to look out for everyone because of the subset that can’t do it for themselves.
 

MplsGopher

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Perhaps.
I believe that small businesses can practice better social distancing and customer service than big box stores where hundreds of people are walking the halls of their stores. It is entirely unjust that small businesses have been shut down while Target, Walmart, Menards, etc., have been green lighted. Let small businesses work with the protocols and show you how quickly they can adapt and ensure the best for their clients.
But, big government feeds its cronies while caring little about the mom and pop store that works its @ss off to meet the local needs.

Do you disagree with my take?
My opinion is that big box stores should not have been "open" for people to come inside, as usual.

They should've be open only for online orders that people drive-up in the parking lot and the workers load into your car.

And my understanding is that small businesses are now being allowed do that.
 

MplsGopher

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The free market ensured all of the above.
Of course!

Because it's always perfectly the case that: a) people even know when they're being lied to and cheated out of their money, behind closed doors, b) a competitor exists that offers an exactly equivalent product at an equivalent price, and c) there is zero cost at all to making that switch to the competitor.

It's pretty incredible how it always works out like this!
 

CutDownTheNet

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On March 30th, there were about 186,000 coronavirus cases in the US. As of April 29, there were about 1,060,000. That's an exponential daily growth rate of 6% over the 30 day period. At that rate, the number of cases doubles in just 12 days. If that rate continues (I'm not saying that it will), 12 days from now we'll have about 2,120,000 cases and about 6,000,000 cases in 30 days. Just what exactly is your definition of "exploded?"

As far as individual states, well, South Dakota had almost nothing 3 weeks ago but that has changed. Iowa was flat for awhile but that sure has changed. Furthermore, we have evidence that Florida is deliberately suppressing their reported numbers and eliminating causes of death from the reports. I don't think that's the only state doing that.
The US C-19 case totals are not exponential anymore. They were, but not since about the end of March. The case totals are now growing linearly, or possibly quadratically (with a small constant on the squared term), The daily totals zig-zag all over the place due to extreme randomness on a day-to-day basis, but their trend line (or local regression line, if you want the math term) is pretty much a straight line that is either nearly flat, or maybe is declining very slightly, or maybe is increasing very slightly. With some partial lockdown easing, that may go from trending downward slightly to trending upward slightly, which would mean the totals curve would be accelerating upward.

So for your sentence starting with, "If that rate continues (I'm not saying that it will), ..." we can note that it won't go up exponentially for the time being, it will go up nearly linearly. But if all lockdowns are simply eliminated, then all bets are off.

But in any event, that's a lot better than growing exponentially.
 

Section2

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When you consider it a funny insult to call someone else gay and say things like “I don’t mind gays unless they hit on me”, I think you are homophobic. If you simply choose not to have sex with men I don’t think so. Fair enough?
I’ve always thought the label “homophobic” was itself homophobic. You’re “afraid” of gays, if you’re not 100 pro homosexuality, ie not a real man.
all the “phobias” just seem like a way to avoid having to make an argument. You’re afraid irrationally, therefore wrong.
 

Section2

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How do you think the food got to the restaurant safely and at a price you could afford? How do you know the restaurant was sanitary? How do you know the structure where the food was made was safe?
Hahahahhahahahahahahahah
 

OldBob53

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My daughter just went to Target, Walmart, Walgreens, CVS and Fleet Farm looking for facemasks...or bandanas or something similar. Nothing. My Amazon order for disposable facemasks is slotted to be delivered the end of June. Sorry, I'm not wearing a winter ski mask in May. I'm not going to cut up a sheet either - talk about ineffective and stupid. This facemask issue is a big joke.
I too have been unable to order face masks within a month or two..... So I'm using bandannas-- large handkerchiefs tied about my neck-- better than nothing I suppose.
 

RememberMurray

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My wife stopped at Whole Foods yesterday. They were handing out masks to anyone who wasn't already wearing one. My wife was already wearing one.

They were keeping track of the number of shoppers in the store, and when they reached capacity they stopped folks at the door and asked them to wait until someone else exited.
 

RememberMurray

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Let’s dissect this one a little as your statement is at best ignorant.

Pop Quiz: where do you think the money for SS and Medicare comes from? I’ll assume you know the answer.

Do you think that someone who doesn’t agree with the SS program is still advocating to pay into the program their entire working life? Or is it more logical that maybe they are saying I don’t want to pay into it and then I won’t ask for anything at the back end?

Your comment is so incredibly dumb as it is trying to say someone should be OK paying into the program their entire life, but then because they don’t like Government programs like it they shouldn’t care if they get their money back at the end. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Of course someone who has paid into the program their whole life will want (some percentage of) their money back at the end.

A better representation would be if folks would rather not pay in and then not collect. Now, doesn’t seem so hypocritical does it? The problem is we don’t have that choice because the government has decided they need to look out for everyone because of the subset that can’t do it for themselves.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if SS were eliminated.

The stuff I've read about Americans and their retirement savings is not too encouraging. Pretty bleak. Most people apparently struggle to save much of anything.

Then, if we follow the libertarian thinking to it's inevitable end, we'd also eliminate that other Big Government program, Medicare.

I wonder how much the average American senior would pay for health insurance on the libertarian open market? How about a senior who was diabetic, or a cancer survivor, or had a heart condition?

What would America really look like, without SS and Medicare? I suppose the libertarian would say that, without the crushing tax burden, we'd easily be able to pay for 100% of our retirement and could easily afford excellent health insurance, with a little frugality and some prudent investing in the free market..

I wonder if that would be the case. How much would a person have to save to afford a decent retirement without SS, and how much would health insurance on the open market cost for the average senior, without Medicare?
 

GophersInIowa

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On "opening up" - I work at a radio station and we carry the state medical briefing live every day. Walz is on some days - other days it's just the medical people.

As I understand it, what Walz is talking about is like this:

as stores plan to re-open, they need to have procedures in place to follow for social distancing, disinfecting, etc. I know a lot of places are installing the plastic shields at cash registers, etc. My local county Courthouse is installing the shields in preparation for re-opening to public business.

So the point is that there has to be a plan to re-open as safely as possible given the circumstances.
because, even though testing is picking up, we have tested less than 2% of the population of MN.

the next time you're out and about - look around. can you tell by looking who might have been exposed to an infectious disease? maybe they pass it to you. maybe you don't get sick, but you pass it to your elderly relative, or a friend with a compromised immune system.

we are going to be living with this until there is a vaccine. it sucks. but that is our new reality.
I'm curious if his office is giving specific recommendations and guidelines around this?
 

cjbfbp

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A better representation would be if folks would rather not pay in and then not collect. Now, doesn’t seem so hypocritical does it? The problem is we don’t have that choice because the government has decided they need to look out for everyone because of the subset that can’t do it for themselves.
These are not pension plans. They are social insurance plans. You don't have a choice about having auto insurance either.
 

Veritas

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How do you think the food got to the restaurant safely and at a price you could afford? How do you know the restaurant was sanitary? How do you know the structure where the food was made was safe?
How does one ever know those things?
 

cjbfbp

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The US C-19 case totals are not exponential anymore. They were, but not since about the end of March. The case totals are now growing linearly, or possibly quadratically (with a small constant on the squared term), The daily totals zig-zag all over the place due to extreme randomness on a day-to-day basis, but their trend line (or local regression line, if you want the math term) is pretty much a straight line that is either nearly flat, or maybe is declining very slightly, or maybe is increasing very slightly. With some partial lockdown easing, that may go from trending downward slightly to trending upward slightly, which would mean the totals curve would be accelerating upward.

So for your sentence starting with, "If that rate continues (I'm not saying that it will), ..." we can note that it won't go up exponentially for the time being, it will go up nearly linearly. But if all lockdowns are simply eliminated, then all bets are off.

But in any event, that's a lot better than growing exponentially.
Good points. I only examined the roughly 30 day period and used a simple measure so my analysis was limited to what had occurred, not what may occur. But, what had occurred was a robust compounding growth rate.
 

Bad Gopher

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That's a huge concern: a grand reopening at considerable cost to businesses...and then nobody shows up. It's gotta be something that enough people are going to be comfortable with. I think I'd do outdoor/patio seating if there were enough safety precautions.
 

Veritas

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Laughable. Fantasyland. Ayn Rand BS.

Read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. A book that literally changed the world.
When I was a boy I rode my bike up to the new resturant in town called "McDonald's". In the 60 plus years since then that new resturant chain has had virtually no scandals with food poisonning or food safety. Why do you think they have been such a huge success in that business market for all those decades?
 
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