The Coming Lockdown Extension (Volume 3)

Ogee Oglethorpe

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It would be nice if we had those guidelines. Or any coherent national strategy. At all. But we don't. Supposedly they're releasing them "soon" you know, after every state has already re-opened.
You're just being stupid. Again. Walz (or any other governor) is completely paralyzed and powerless to do their own homework, follow input from people within their own administrations that have been tasked with following the data, and make decisions on what is best for the people of their own respective states?

You sure don't give these governors much credit. The irony is, if Barry was doing the same thing, he would be lauded and canonized for "having the wisdom to grant the states with latitude to do what they feel is best". It's laughable.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Re: November, I believe the feared goal is to provide cover for Walz to use his emergency power to compel voting by mail for all vs. go through the legislative process. If things are still bad, scary and kids still can't go to school, how can we go out and vote, etc.
A lot of people are starting to wake up and realize this is now more political than it is about saving lives, even democrats. It's obvious this is no longer about flattening the curve, which has been done everywhere to this point.

People are becoming increasingly fed up here in MN, NY, CA, etc. These people are watching things successfully open up in republican led states. As long as that continues, the democratic leaders will look more and more foolish.

That's where this could really backfire on the dems in November. Not only could Trump get re-elected, this could lead to a lot more republicans being elected in what are typically blue states.
 

GoodasGold

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A lot of people are starting to wake up and realize this is now more political than it is about saving lives, even democrats. It's obvious this is no longer about flattening the curve, which has been done everywhere to this point.

People are becoming increasingly fed up here in MN, NY, CA, etc. These people are watching things successfully open up in republican led states. As long as that continues, the democratic leaders will look more and more foolish.

That's where this could really backfire on the dems in November. Not only could Trump get re-elected, this could lead to a lot more republicans being elected in what are typically blue states.
Marvelous prognostication. Thanks!
 

bga1

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Yeah, there definitely was some of that but I was happy that he reminded people that the state received a D grade for social distancing. While things are getting better lately, still far too many people in the rural areas are not wearing masks in stores and there are still plenty of small town grocery and liquor stores that haven't put up plastic shields by the registers and aren't requiring their employees to wear masks.
Well then, the people of the state get one grade better than the governor- who gets a big fat F for failure. If you throw garbage regulation at people they are going to treat it like garbage. If you treat people like adults they act like it-for the most part.
Walz has taken a foolish one size fits all approach to this. In the process he smashed the state economy, put a lot of small businesses out of business and failed to protect the old people who are the target of this disease.
 

Veritas

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The mall of America and the other big malls can reopen? Or just the strip malls and small stores?
Barbers? Restaurants "maybe" on June 1? This sounds like smoke and mirrors to get people to hold off protesting to me. Lots of maybe this and maybe that.
His thinking is of that over protective, speaking to the children, make sure everyone gets a gold star kind of high school teacher I tried hard not to be. His heart is hiding under the bed but he knows the adults won't put up with his wanting us to all "play safe".
 

GopherNuts

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I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your definition of "backfire" is essentially any remote possibility of an outcome, including anything more than zero deaths in the next 36 months
my definition of this backfiring is us ending up back in a “lockdown” which seems inevitable considering the estimated peak in Minnesota is a month off and we’re reopening giving people a feeling of a return to normalcy. That will of course lead to carelessness and people further disregarding social distancing guidelines.

Beyond that my view isn’t necessarily about whether we should have eased off restrictions by now but moreso that the original “lockdown” guidelines were not strict enough. We shut some businesses down which in fairness decreased large gatherings of people to an extent but otherwise it’s been an as you were approach. If we enforced social distancing and businesses required people to wear PPE as Target and a few others have done, we could have slowed this even sooner but this is a self centered country that never would have gone for that which was illustrated by the snowflakes who ran to the capitol to protest because they couldn’t get a haircut.

Sadly the elderly will be the ones that suffer as a result. In the end, we have further proof that their lives don’t mean as much as they aren’t the contributors to the economy that younger people are. We’re showing we have no issue sacrificing them. Furthermore, it’s my opinion that it’s the duty of our elected officials to protect each and everyone especially the most vulnerable...we haven’t come close to doing that.
 
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GopherJake

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The irony is, if Barry was doing the same thing, he would be lauded and canonized for "having the wisdom to grant the states with latitude to do what they feel is best". It's laughable.
This is a disappointing post from you. I'm pretty sure you know what good leadership looks like. This ain't it and you know it.
 

bga1

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my definition of this backfiring is us ending up back in a “lockdown” which seems inevitable considering the estimated peak in Minnesota is a month off and we’re reopening giving people a feeling of a return to normalcy. That will of course lead to carelessness and people further disregarding social distancing guidelines.

Beyond that my view isn’t necessarily about whether we should have eased off restrictions by now but moreso that the original “lockdown” guidelines were not strict enough. We shut some businesses down which in fairness decreased large gatherings of people to an extent but otherwise it’s been an as you were approach. If we enforced social distancing and businesses required people to wear PPE as Target and a few others have done, we could have slowed this even sooner but this is a self centered country that never would have gone for that which was illustrated by the snowflakes who ran to the capitol to protest because they couldn’t get a haircut.

Sadly the elderly will be the ones that suffer as a result. In the end, we have further proof that their lives don’t mean as much as they aren’t the contributors to the economy that younger people are. We’re showing we have no issue sacrificing them.
The elderly are suffering because this state came up with no plan to firewall the nursing homes. Total and complete failure to have 81% of deaths come out of nursing homes. That's on Walz and his planners 100%. They were too busy locking down the whole state to be bothered with planning to protect the real target of the disease.
What Walz is doing now is a pseudo opening. Nothing is really changing here, not in any big way and he has given no sense of direction for businesses that want to and desperately need to open.
This state is doing worse per million on deaths than a lot of states that have been more open. Other states like Florida ran laps around Walz in terms of protecting the nursing homes.
Grade- F
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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The most disturbing thing about Walz's announcement today is how he is treating the entire state of MN like they are children. Saying we went from an A to a D with social distancing, and that he knows how to read a report card. Saying we better do our part, or he'll turn back the dials.

That's the equivalent of saying we better behave, or he'll take our toys away and keep us grounded for longer than June 1st. In this case these toys are freedom, and other people's businesses and livelihoods, whom many worked their whole life to build.

We have one person making these decisions for an entire state. One person limiting freedom, and picking and choosing who can operate which business and when. And people continue to be ok with this? Scary.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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This is a disappointing post from you. I'm pretty sure you know what good leadership looks like. This ain't it and you know it.
You can take 20-30 of the decisions and actions that Trump has done since this started in early-mid January (forget about the presentation, you are more concerned with this than I am), whether it's the travel ban, when certain things were done and implemented, etc and if Barry had done every single one of them, the overwhelming narrative would be how he was forward-thinking, visionary, and how many thousands and thousands of lives he saved.

Good grief, even my hard-core Liberal grade school teacher brother-in-law paused for a few seconds and said "Yes, I would agree with that".

You can make that argument with virtually every decision this task force has made in the last 4-5 months.
 

GopherNuts

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The elderly are suffering because this state came up with no plan to firewall the nursing homes. Total and complete failure to have 81% of deaths come out of nursing homes. That's on Walz and his planners 100%. They were too busy locking down the whole state to be bothered with planning to protect the real target of the disease.
What Walz is doing now is a pseudo opening. Nothing is really changing here, not in any big way and he has given no sense of direction for businesses that want to and desperately need to open.
This state is doing worse per million on deaths than a lot of states that have been more open. Other states like Florida ran laps around Walz in terms of protecting the nursing homes.
Grade- F
you may want to look deeper into how things are being handled in Florida https://t.co/dMwQ8g577e
 

GopherJake

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You can take 20-30 of the decisions and actions that Trump has done since this started in early-mid January (forget about the presentation, you are more concerned with this than I am), whether it's the travel ban, when certain things were done and implemented, etc and if Barry had done every single one of them, the overwhelming narrative would be how he was forward-thinking, visionary, and how many thousands and thousands of lives he saved.

Good grief, even my hard-core Liberal grade school teacher brother-in-law paused for a few seconds and said "Yes, I would agree with that".

You can make that argument with virtually every decision this task force has made in the last 4-5 months.
Task force?

No way. This is a group of complete bumbling idiots in charge giving no roadmap and no coherent, competent leadership whatsoever. Their map changes daily. The President gets up there and lies to us every single day. Blasting through a strawman about how we want Don to make all the decisions or none of the decisions or dictate or stay quiet is just a bunch of garbage. We want an adult in charge. So do you. You can disagree with Barry all you want on policy, but the man was a professional and an adult. There's no way he would have led like this. No chance. And if he did, I'd call him out just as I call out Don. I hate idiots, whether they agree with me in general or not.
 

bga1

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you may want to look deeper into how things are being handled in Florida https://t.co/dMwQ8g577e
Florida is doing much, much better than Minnesota. Florida deaths per million 85. Minnesota 113.
Florida density per sq mile 370 people, Minnesota 70 people. Florida population- loaded with old people. Florida has been much more open than Minnesota. Florida had spring break and a huge influx of New Yorkers come in when covid started killing in New York. Sorry, I don't trust your newspaper article. The stats show that Florida is far out performing Minnesota.

Here is a list of their care facilities 100's of them have zero deaths. Nursing home deaths in Florida appear to be around 1/3 of the total deaths. In Minnesota it is at 81%
 

bga1

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Task force?

No way. This is a group of complete bumbling idiots in charge giving no roadmap and no coherent, competent leadership whatsoever. Their map changes daily. The President gets up there and lies to us every single day. Blasting through a strawman about how we want Don to make all the decisions or none of the decisions or dictate or stay quiet is just a bunch of garbage. We want an adult in charge. So do you. You can disagree with Barry all you want on policy, but the man was a professional and an adult. There's no way he would have led like this. No chance. And if he did, I'd call him out just as I call out Don. I hate idiots, whether they agree with me in general or not.
Barry was and is the most corrupt President in history. The cover he had for all of his mistakes was a fawning media. He was and remains a smooth talking liar.
 

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The address could have had a little more detail. I hope that Walz will do the daily briefing on Thursday and take questions from the media.

But, as I understand what was said on Wednesday:
-the stay-at-home order will end on Monday
-retail stores may open, but should keep customers at 50% capacity.
-people can congregate in groups of up to 10 people
-the state is preparing guidelines for bars, restaurants, fitness centers and hair salons to re-open by June 1st if they follow the recommendations
-the final step in the process will be larger-group gatherings including church services, athletic events and concerts.

But - if there is a significant increase in cases or fatalities, things could still be "dialed back" if necessary.

we still need some guidance on things like amateur baseball, summer HS sports leagues, campgrounds, state parks, playgrounds, etc.

I will say that Walz actually went further than I expected.

Oh - for the person who was talking about November - Walz is not up for election. Some of this could be an attempt to provide political cover for DFL candidates for State House and Senate, but most of the real objections were coming from rural MN, and those areas already vote primarily Republican.
Campgrounds is my biggest wish right now. I have a trip planned in June. It's ridiculous that I might not be able to go in the woods with a couple of friends. It is a hike-in site miles away from anyone else. It is exactly where we should be going.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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Task force?

No way. This is a group of complete bumbling idiots in charge giving no roadmap and no coherent, competent leadership whatsoever. Their map changes daily. The President gets up there and lies to us every single day. Blasting through a strawman about how we want Don to make all the decisions or none of the decisions or dictate or stay quiet is just a bunch of garbage. We want an adult in charge. So do you. You can disagree with Barry all you want on policy, but the man was a professional and an adult. There's no way he would have led like this. No chance. And if he did, I'd call him out just as I call out Don. I hate idiots, whether they agree with me in general or not.
You knew what the right course of action was on this in January? February? March? Even April?

Pretty reckless of you not to let the rest of the world in on it
 

GopherJake

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You knew what the right course of action was on this in January? February? March? Even April?

Pretty reckless of you not to let the rest of the world in on it
This will be my last post on this. No president, governor, mayor, medical doctor or anyone else "knew" the right course of action. But I certainly know what competent leadership looks like. You are right of center. No problem there - full respect, if the rationale is sound. But just look at the idiotic posts BGA makes all day every day here. Is that who you want to emulate? Do you want to pretend that we have professional, adult, fact-based leadership at the top here? I don't expect anyone to have had this figured out. I do expect leadership. A roadmap. Facts. Not condescending, bald faced lies - day-after-day - sophomoric and erratic behavior. You don't care. Why the hell not? That's what leadership - or lack thereof, in this case - is all about. It's not about being perfect, having all the answers, being right all the time. It's about buckling down and figuring out how to solve problems and motivating people to work together to do that. And you know it. Or at least I thought you did.
 

GopherNuts

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Florida is doing much, much better than Minnesota. Florida deaths per million 85. Minnesota 113.
Florida density per sq mile 370 people, Minnesota 70 people. Florida population- loaded with old people. Florida has been much more open than Minnesota. Florida had spring break and a huge influx of New Yorkers come in when covid started killing in New York. Sorry, I don't trust your newspaper article. The stats show that Florida is far out performing Minnesota.

Here is a list of their care facilities 100's of them have zero deaths. Nursing home deaths in Florida appear to be around 1/3 of the total deaths. In Minnesota it is at 81%
Not asking you to trust the newspaper. I think there’s good reason to trust AARP and the Florida Healthcare Association (who represent 82% of Florida’s long term care facilities mind you) however who both question those numbers. Easier to report lower numbers when you test fewer people. Hell, the uptick in positive cases in Minnesota are likely tied to Walz’ attempts to ramp testing up to 20,000 a day (He’s fallen short of that number mind you but point remains..my cynical side thinks there’s reason for that but that’s a convo for another day).

The bigger issue here is this has been politicized from the start so people are taking the sides of their political affiliation and ignoring what’s said by experts and organizations that specialize in exactly what we’re dealing with. When things are life or death for you, me, our family members or our neighbors we need to look beyond all that BS.
 

Spoofin

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Campgrounds is my biggest wish right now. I have a trip planned in June. It's ridiculous that I might not be able to go in the woods with a couple of friends. It is a hike-in site miles away from anyone else. It is exactly where we should be going.
Ditto. I have a backpacking trip planned soon as well. I keep thinking “wouldn’t this help social distancing?”
 

OldBob53

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When Walz announces that he's extending the lockdown until June 4, what will be the reasons?

Hospitals not ready? From the Star Tribune today, 1024 of the 1244 of the states ICU beds are occupied by patients with Covid-19 or other conditions unrelated to the pandemic. Hospitals have another 1351 ICU beds that can be readied within 72 hours. According to todays numbers there are 199 Covid patients in the ICU.

Models? According to today's Star Tribune, model 2.0 came out and showed "no progress for Minnesota if the order was extended through May". It was quickly scrapped and now we are being told to wait until model 3.0 comes out. A state official said the model was "out of date almost as soon as it was posted" and asked for patience until model 3.0 comes out. Sen. Benson, R-Ham Lake asked for more of the modeling that informed the Governor's decision. "We want to work with the Governor, but it's important the data that is driving the decision making".

Testing. After initially saying 5,000 daily tests were needed he changed it to 10,000 and later 20,000, yesterday was the second day we eclipsed 5,000 daily tests. Walz has pleaded on twitter and in a big Star Tribune article recently for people with symptoms to get tested. Does he need to hit his "moonshot" or simply get the case numbers higher to justify another extension?

Cases/Deaths on the rise? Cases are rising, but as expected as we are testing more. Deaths peaked on 5/6 and have lightly trended down since then.

He tap danced last time, He really better have his tap shoes shined up for Thursday, in my opinion. I hope the reporters ask him some difficult question.
Clearly, reopening too soon is playing with fire.
 

OldBob53

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Ditto. I have a backpacking trip planned soon as well. I keep thinking “wouldn’t this help social distancing?”
Outdoors are safer than Indoors per the experts-- so you might be ok.
 

Section2

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my definition of this backfiring is us ending up back in a “lockdown” which seems inevitable considering the estimated peak in Minnesota is a month off and we’re reopening giving people a feeling of a return to normalcy. That will of course lead to carelessness and people further disregarding social distancing guidelines.

Beyond that my view isn’t necessarily about whether we should have eased off restrictions by now but moreso that the original “lockdown” guidelines were not strict enough. We shut some businesses down which in fairness decreased large gatherings of people to an extent but otherwise it’s been an as you were approach. If we enforced social distancing and businesses required people to wear PPE as Target and a few others have done, we could have slowed this even sooner but this is a self centered country that never would have gone for that which was illustrated by the snowflakes who ran to the capitol to protest because they couldn’t get a haircut.

Sadly the elderly will be the ones that suffer as a result. In the end, we have further proof that their lives don’t mean as much as they aren’t the contributors to the economy that younger people are. We’re showing we have no issue sacrificing them. Furthermore, it’s my opinion that it’s the duty of our elected officials to protect each and everyone especially the most vulnerable...we haven’t come close to doing that.
And you call others snowflakes.
 

John Galt

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This will be my last post on this. No president, governor, mayor, medical doctor or anyone else "knew" the right course of action. But I certainly know what competent leadership looks like. You are right of center. No problem there - full respect, if the rationale is sound. But just look at the idiotic posts BGA makes all day every day here. Is that who you want to emulate? Do you want to pretend that we have professional, adult, fact-based leadership at the top here? I don't expect anyone to have had this figured out. I do expect leadership. A roadmap. Facts. Not condescending, bald faced lies - day-after-day - sophomoric and erratic behavior. You don't care. Why the hell not? That's what leadership - or lack thereof, in this case - is all about. It's not about being perfect, having all the answers, being right all the time. It's about buckling down and figuring out how to solve problems and motivating people to work together to do that. And you know it. Or at least I thought you did.
Jake - you’re better than this. This is something that Howie would typically post- CNN talking points. Trump and his administration were front and center and gave daily updates with Fauci and presented loads of data. Trump delegated decision making to the states, which I am in favor of as the virus impacted different areas in completely different ways. What specifically would you like to have seen done differently?
 

bga1

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Not asking you to trust the newspaper. I think there’s good reason to trust AARP and the Florida Healthcare Association (who represent 82% of Florida’s long term care facilities mind you) however who both question those numbers. Easier to report lower numbers when you test fewer people. Hell, the uptick in positive cases in Minnesota are likely tied to Walz’ attempts to ramp testing up to 20,000 a day (He’s fallen short of that number mind you but point remains..my cynical side thinks there’s reason for that but that’s a convo for another day).

The bigger issue here is this has been politicized from the start so people are taking the sides of their political affiliation and ignoring what’s said by experts and organizations that specialize in exactly what we’re dealing with. When things are life or death for you, me, our family members or our neighbors we need to look beyond all that BS.
The BS is that any of these lock downs actually worked on the whole. We have created more damage than we have saved. This got politicized, by the way, because the left wants to make this as bad as possible. There is no other reason for the politicization of this. None. Look directly to your political left.
 

MplsGopher

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Lot of people looking foolish in this thread, trying as desperately and pathetically as they can, to find a way to be angry at an objectively good thing.
 
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