St. Juste on Viking's Radar?

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
9,431
Reaction score
2,173
Points
113
Interesting that they project him as a safety at the NFL level. For those that pay closer attention to the draft, is St. Juste being projected as a safety by other publications?
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,787
Reaction score
1,846
Points
113
Probably won’t pick a corner late in the draft after drafting a corner in the first round
 

2nd Degree Gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
1,223
Reaction score
251
Points
83
Interesting that they project him as a safety at the NFL level. For those that pay closer attention to the draft, is St. Juste being projected as a safety by other publications?
I have seen it more described as position flexibility and that his size and build fit more what some teams look for in a safety, while others see him fitting what they like in a corner. Reports are that he looked good at the Senior Bowl. Specific to the Vikings, I think it's more based on the perceived need for help at safety with Harris probably leaving.
 

Word

Eats difficult conversations
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
7,107
Reaction score
1,683
Points
113
If they do end up taking St. Juste this year, after avoiding the Winfield pick last year, that would paint a pretty good picture of why the Vikings are what they are.
Vikes would have had a better season if 4 of their top 5 defensive players wouldn't have missed the whole season. Probably would have barely made the playoffs instead of barely missing.
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,787
Reaction score
1,846
Points
113
Vikes would have had a better season if 4 of their top 5 defensive players wouldn't have missed the whole season. Probably would have barely made the playoffs instead of barely missing.
Who missed the whole season?
Hunter?
Kenricks missed a couple of games?
Smith played whole season.

I couldn’t even tell you who the 4th best guy is. If Barr is in your top 11 you’re an old slow defense.
 

GopherDog1

Section 143
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
362
Reaction score
172
Points
43
If they do end up taking St. Juste this year, after avoiding the Winfield pick last year, that would paint a pretty good picture of why the Vikings are what they are.
Exactly. Say no more, I could not believe they passed up Winfield but as you say, they are who they are.

Sincerely,
A broken Vikings fan.
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,021
Reaction score
4,444
Points
113
Who missed the whole season?
Hunter?
Kenricks missed a couple of games?
Smith played whole season.

I couldn’t even tell you who the 4th best guy is. If Barr is in your top 11 you’re an old slow defense.
Huh??? Hunter didn't play the entire year. Neither did Michael Pierce. Barr was out the entire year and Kendricks missed probably around half the games.

That right there is four of your (probably) five or six best defensive players.

The line about Barr makes me think that you know nothing about the Vikings. If he's "in your top 11 you're an OLD SLOW defense."? Barr is 28 years old and whether you like him as a player or not....he's one of the most athletically gifted linebackers in the league. Old and slow. LOL!

Then of course our number one CB after gutting the position was Mike Hughes who only played in four games. Lots of guys missing. The defense will be MUCH better next year.
 

hungan1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
10,429
Reaction score
1,081
Points
113
I think the Vikings out-smarted themselves when they passed up on AWjr right in their own backyard. Enough said.
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,021
Reaction score
4,444
Points
113
Exactly. Say no more, I could not believe they passed up Winfield but as you say, they are who they are.

Sincerely,
A broken Vikings fan.
Passing on Winfield obviously sucked. But it didn't surprise me. They needed a WR, and drafted a great one with Jefferson. If they could have moved Ant Harris during the off season....Winfield would have made a lot of sense. But we were pretty well set at safety. And like I said in the previous post....Spielman gutted the CB position and we basically needed to take one with our other #1.

TJ was the guy that I am surprised we didn't snag. But looking around the league....lots of lower round Gophers are seeing decent playing time despite their "special teams" pick rounds. Sucks that Spielman seems to care very little about the Gophers (go figure....his kid got smacked around by them at Nebraska)....because it looks like there are a lot of value guys in the back end of the draft....where Spielman always seems to have a bunch of extra picks.
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,787
Reaction score
1,846
Points
113
Huh??? Hunter didn't play the entire year. Neither did Michael Pierce. Barr was out the entire year and Kendricks missed probably around half the games.

That right there is four of your (probably) five or six best defensive players.

The line about Barr makes me think that you know nothing about the Vikings. If he's "in your top 11 you're an OLD SLOW defense."? Barr is 28 years old and whether you like him as a player or not....he's one of the most athletically gifted linebackers in the league. Old and slow. LOL!

Then of course our number one CB after gutting the position was Mike Hughes who only played in four games. Lots of guys missing. The defense will be MUCH better next year.
Barr is awful. Watch the games. A linebacker who can’t do anything in pass coverage at all.

Michael pierce has never played a snap for the Vikings

kendricks is IMO the best player...missed 5 of 16 games

hunter missed the whole season.

Hughes is solid but not great. If he is top 5 player on the defense it isn’t a very good defense.




Read the post I responded to that claimed 4 of the top 5 guys missed a whole season.

if you include a guy who has never played a snap for the Vikings as one of the best 5...3 of the top 5 maybe missed a whole year? But if Barr is top 5 it’s not a good defense. Nor would the post I responded to be correct.


The Vikings defense is too old in some sports and too young in others spots. It’s a bad defense next year. With guys back next year it’ll probably be improved to average or above average. Not close to a good defense even with healthy guys.
 

Word

Eats difficult conversations
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
7,107
Reaction score
1,683
Points
113
Who missed the whole season?
Hunter?
Kenricks missed a couple of games?
Smith played whole season.

I couldn’t even tell you who the 4th best guy is. If Barr is in your top 11 you’re an old slow defense.
Barr, Hunter, pierce, Hughes
 

die hard gopher

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
9,132
Reaction score
591
Points
113
I think the Vikings out-smarted themselves when they passed up on AWjr right in their own backyard. Enough said.
They already franchise tagged Anthony Harris who had maybe the best season a safety in the league the previous year.

It wouldn’t have made sense to take Winfield in the first and he was gone by the time we picked in the second. If he played for any other team, no one would care the Vikings passed on him.
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,021
Reaction score
4,444
Points
113
Barr is awful. Watch the games. A linebacker who can’t do anything in pass coverage at all.

Michael pierce has never played a snap for the Vikings

kendricks is IMO the best player...missed 5 of 16 games

hunter missed the whole season.

Hughes is solid but not great. If he is top 5 player on the defense it isn’t a very good defense.




Read the post I responded to that claimed 4 of the top 5 guys missed a whole season.

if you include a guy who has never played a snap for the Vikings as one of the best 5...3 of the top 5 maybe missed a whole year? But if Barr is top 5 it’s not a good defense. Nor would the post I responded to be correct.


The Vikings defense is too old in some sports and too young in others spots. It’s a bad defense next year. With guys back next year it’ll probably be improved to average or above average. Not close to a good defense even with healthy guys.
Who cares if Pierce hasn't played a game for the team. Means nothing. Kendricks missed a lot of time. Hunter missed the whole season. And Barr missed the whole season. And no....Barr is not "awful". He is a good linebacker that tends to get out of position...but that doesn't make him "awful".

So...four of the top five missing the whole season wasn't correct because Kendricks played. Obviously Smith is top five. But who else? I said top six because you could make a case for Ant Harris. Other than that....the point stands that four out of our top five/six were out for the nearly the entire year.

Again....you said that if Barr is a top 11 guy....the defense is too slow and old. Makes zero sense pointing to him as evidence of those two things. It's not me that needs to "watch the games".
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,787
Reaction score
1,846
Points
113
Who cares if Pierce hasn't played a game for the team. Means nothing. Kendricks missed a lot of time. Hunter missed the whole season. And Barr missed the whole season. And no....Barr is not "awful". He is a good linebacker that tends to get out of position...but that doesn't make him "awful".

So...four of the top five missing the whole season wasn't correct because Kendricks played. Obviously Smith is top five. But who else? I said top six because you could make a case for Ant Harris. Other than that....the point stands that four out of our top five/six were out for the nearly the entire year.

Again....you said that if Barr is a top 11 guy....the defense is too slow and old. Makes zero sense pointing to him as evidence of those two things. It's not me that needs to "watch the games".
Barr is a liability as anything but a pass rusher. Watch the games
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,021
Reaction score
4,444
Points
113
Barr is a liability as anything but a pass rusher. Watch the games
Barr is a better than average linebacker. And you said that he makes the team old and slow.

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,787
Reaction score
1,846
Points
113
Barr is a better than average linebacker. And you said that he makes the team old and slow.

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.
Okay.

you keep being disappointed then. When the Vikings defense is average next year because everyone except hunter and kendricks are a step slow...I won’t be disappointed because they’ll meet my expectations.



maybe you’re right and they’ll be great. A lot of defenses with a lot of more veteran and injury prone players get better simply by aging another year!

PS...I’m not a big pro football focus guy actually because it’s hard to grade players when you don’t know their assigned play call.....
But 2020 Anthony Barr didn’t play due to injury
2019 Anthony Barr was graded as 60.6 or right on the edge of backup and replaceable.
2018 Anthony Barr was graded as 70.5 or right on the edge of backup and starter
2017 was 71.5 grade
2016 was a 50.6 grade
2015 was a 90.1 grade

Anthony Barr was a great linebacker. 5 years ago.
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,021
Reaction score
4,444
Points
113
Okay.

you keep being disappointed then. When the Vikings defense is average next year because everyone except hunter and kendricks are a step slow...I won’t be disappointed because they’ll meet my expectations.



maybe you’re right and they’ll be great. A lot of defenses with a lot of more veteran and injury prone players get better simply by aging another year!

PS...I’m not a big pro football focus guy actually because it’s hard to grade players when you don’t know their assigned play call.....
But 2020 Anthony Barr didn’t play due to injury
2019 Anthony Barr was graded as 60.6 or right on the edge of backup and replaceable.
2018 Anthony Barr was graded as 70.5 or right on the edge of backup and starter
2017 was 71.5 grade
2016 was a 50.6 grade
2015 was a 90.1 grade

Anthony Barr was a great linebacker. 5 years ago.
Huh? Don't know how to break this to you....but EVERY team in the league deals with aging players. Don't know if your "replace nine defensive starters" plan is actually feasible.

And I'm not sure why you are so hung up on Barr. He's a decent linebacker. He's not awful by any stretch of the imagination. And even though PFF numbers don't tell the whole story...his 60.6 grade from 2019 put him tied for the 51st best linebacker in the NFL. Not great. Not "awful". Not sure where you get that this number puts him in the "edge of backup and replaceable" territory. Do you know how many linebackers start and receive playing time in a league with 32 teams? It's a hell of a lot more than 51....that's for sure.
 

Unregistered User

Wild animal with a keyboard
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
11,842
Reaction score
407
Points
83
Just settle in for mediocrity until both Spielman and Zimmer are gone.

And then hope.
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,787
Reaction score
1,846
Points
113
Huh? Don't know how to break this to you....but EVERY team in the league deals with aging players. Don't know if your "replace nine defensive starters" plan is actually feasible.

And I'm not sure why you are so hung up on Barr. He's a decent linebacker. He's not awful by any stretch of the imagination. And even though PFF numbers don't tell the whole story...his 60.6 grade from 2019 put him tied for the 51st best linebacker in the NFL. Not great. Not "awful". Not sure where you get that this number puts him in the "edge of backup and replaceable" territory. Do you know how many linebackers start and receive playing time in a league with 32 teams? It's a hell of a lot more than 51....that's for sure.
The 51st best linebacker in the nfl is bottom 3rd.
You’ve convinced me. He is great
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,021
Reaction score
4,444
Points
113
The 51st best linebacker in the nfl is bottom 3rd.
You’ve convinced me. He is great
A strawman doesn't make your argument stronger. I never said he was great.

Furthermore....are you doing your math on a broken calculator or something? Teams start at least three linebackers....some four. There are over 100 "starting" linebackers in the NFL. How do you get that he's in the bottom third? Much closer to middle according to PFF rankings. And this is based only off of LAST year's grades.
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,787
Reaction score
1,846
Points
113
A strawman doesn't make your argument stronger. I never said he was great.

Furthermore....are you doing your math on a broken calculator or something? Teams start at least three linebackers....some four. There are over 100 "starting" linebackers in the NFL. How do you get that he's in the bottom third? Much closer to middle according to PFF rankings. And this is based only off of LAST year's grades.
On PFF the classify many of those linebackers at edge rushers

You can continue to be wrong about how good Barr is. It’s okay to have a different opinion than me.
 

stocker08

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
23,021
Reaction score
4,444
Points
113
On PFF the classify many of those linebackers at edge rushers

You can continue to be wrong about how good Barr is. It’s okay to have a different opinion than me.
I'm saying that he is fine. You are the one trying to say that he is slow, old and awful....which is horribly off the mark. Prior to the 2019 season PFF had Barr and Kendricks as the fifth best tandem in the league. How did he get so awful so quickly? Answer....he didn't.


5. ANTHONY BARR & ERIC KENDRICKS, MINNESOTA VIKINGS
The 2018 Vikings’ defense may not have presented the same sting it maintained in 2017, but they continued to sustain their top-ten status. The tandem of UCLA alums, Barr and Kendricks, has been a mainstay of a defense that is full of superstar talent.

Barr has been pestering opposing quarterbacks as much as anyone at his position since he joined the league. His 116 total pressures generated since 2015 rank second among linebackers which largely contributes to his third-ranked 90.0 pass-rushing grade in that same period. Even when he doesn’t successfully pressure the quarterback, he is still effective against the pass. His nine batted passes rank second at his position over the last five seasons.

Kendricks, who has been productive yet unspectacular in his time in the NFL, has seen his grade fluctuate anywhere from 58.0 to 68.0 throughout his four-year career. However, he has shown flashes of potential, as he has earned 80.0-plus game grades seven times throughout his NFL career.

 

Replacement Gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
255
Points
83
I'm saying that he is fine. You are the one trying to say that he is slow, old and awful....which is horribly off the mark. Prior to the 2019 season PFF had Barr and Kendricks as the fifth best tandem in the league. How did he get so awful so quickly? Answer....he didn't.


5. ANTHONY BARR & ERIC KENDRICKS, MINNESOTA VIKINGS
The 2018 Vikings’ defense may not have presented the same sting it maintained in 2017, but they continued to sustain their top-ten status. The tandem of UCLA alums, Barr and Kendricks, has been a mainstay of a defense that is full of superstar talent.

Barr has been pestering opposing quarterbacks as much as anyone at his position since he joined the league. His 116 total pressures generated since 2015 rank second among linebackers which largely contributes to his third-ranked 90.0 pass-rushing grade in that same period. Even when he doesn’t successfully pressure the quarterback, he is still effective against the pass. His nine batted passes rank second at his position over the last five seasons.

Kendricks, who has been productive yet unspectacular in his time in the NFL, has seen his grade fluctuate anywhere from 58.0 to 68.0 throughout his four-year career. However, he has shown flashes of potential, as he has earned 80.0-plus game grades seven times throughout his NFL career.
It’s funny. I see thoughtful replies like this to a post I am unable to see because I blocked the poster you are responding to, Some Guy.

I suggest you simply do the same.
 
Top Bottom