So, does everyone understand what “culture” means now?

highwayman

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When Fleck was hired, and even up to today, Fleck (and Coyle) was mocked for his use of the word “culture”.

He was mocked for saying his “culture” was some how better than that of Kill or Claeys. Hey, their cultures were just fine.

Guess what, the missing ingredient was the culture of “winning”. The culture of trying to be better every day. Don’t live on your laurels. Be prepared for football and be prepared for life. Win at everything.

I’m sorry if you want to disagree, but the “culture” of Jerry Kill didn’t extend much past football. His actions since he “retired” from Minnesota football indicate that. It’s all about football and all about Jerry. Claeys was definitely not the man to carry on this program. It’s abundantly clear of that.
 
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GoldenRodents

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Nothing harder or more rewarding than improving a culture.
 

MennoSota

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Something to do with a cotton swab and a petri dish...
 

Spoofin

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When I saw Hwy started a thread I assumed it was going to be his normal complaints about bickering. Turns out it was a thread designed to start bickering. I feel bad I assumed wrong.


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MinnesotaMiracleMan

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Fostering a winning culture in any organization will reap benefits even after the leader leaves. Oregon is still a far superior program than they were historically thanks to the heavy lifting of in part to Mark Bellotti and Chip Kelly. Fleck has "Row the Boat" and Kelly had "Win the Day." Success breeds success and Fleck pushing a culture that is never satisfied (you got the feeling Kill was happy with 8 wins a year) really challenges a program to take the next step.
 
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I hadn’t seen bickering yet... but is it bickering because he brought up Jerry Kill? That guy knows bickering. I don’t understand the love and defense of Jerry Kill.

I will say though about the original post, Fleck never said his culture was better. He said he came to change the culture. Every change in coach brings along some level of a change in culture. Fleck was just upfront and honest and continues to be. It’s actually very refreshing to hear a figure in sports being honest.
 

Spoofin

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<b>Fostering a winning culture in any organization will reap benefits even after the leader leaves. </b>Oregon is still a far superior program than they were historically thanks to the heavy lifting of in part to Mark Bellotti and Chip Kelly. Fleck has "Row the Boat" and Kelly had "Win the Day." Success breeds success and Fleck pushing a culture that is never satisfied (you got the feeling Kill was happy with 8 wins a year) really challenges a program to take the next step.
Has W-MI continued to reap the benefits? Looks to me like they dropped right back to the ~ .500 team they were before PJ.


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Thought this thread was about PJ?


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Nope, not PJ. But if we are policing the discussion, then this thread is about culture. And someone started down the road of winning records as a reflection of culture.
 

Gopher2007

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When I first heard it’s going from wanting to win to refusing to lose I thought it sounded like just a tag line. Turns out P.J. was spot on again and we are continuing to see the results.
 

Spoofin

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Nope, not PJ. But if we are policing the discussion, then this thread is about culture. And someone started down the road of winning records as a reflection of culture.
Right. Post #6 claimed that and said the success stays after the leader leaves. I provided an example where it didn’t. You somehow took me saying ‘WMU got worse as soon as PJ left’ as a shot at PJ (not even sure how) and did what so many on this site do at that time - took a shot at Jerry Kill.


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Bayfieldgopher

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Don’t forget the axe!;1838971 said:
Speaking of a .500 record: Jerry Kill
Kill Head coaching record
Overall 152–99
Minnesota: 29–29 14–21

Brewster
Minnesota: 15–30 6–21

A big improvement over Brewster

Mason
Overall 123–121–1
Minnesota: 64–57 32–48
 
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Kill Head coaching record
Overall 152–99
Minnesota: 29–29 14–21

Brewster
Minnesota: 15–30 6–21

A big improvement over Brewster

Mason
Overall 123–121–1
Minnesota: 64–57 32–48
Obviously a big improvement over Brewster. Anything would have been an improvement following Brewster. I see 29-29 still. Kill’s record at every directional Ellinois school doesn’t count when discussing his impact on the Minnesota program.
 

60's Guy

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Culture is absolutely important for any program. Each coach needs to be himself and establish his own culture to be successful. Kill did that. PJ is doing that.

The starting line was in a completely different place for PJ than it was for Kill. PJ took over a 9 win team. Kill took over a broken program in jeopardy of being sanctioned by the NCAA for failing academics. Kill raised the bar academically to an elite level which according to numbers I researched PJ has not quite maintained. Yes, we are still doing very well right now, but PJ is maintaining not establishing or elevating (according to the numbers I saw)

PJ has benefited in 2019 from our most favorable schedule to start a season in a very long time. To his credit he has rode the early season momentum to 9 and 0. Awesome! But many of the leaders of the 9 and 0 team were leaders of the 9 and 4 team.

I’m very happy we are 9 and 0 but before I bow down and join in the worship of PJ I’d like to see what next year brings. Many of us said during the summer that we had a good opportunity to be 8 and 0 entering the Penn St game. We were, we won! Awesome!

PJ doesn’t believe in momentum. I do. Whatever he calls this....I’d just like to see if he can repeat it. Or are we 7 and 5 next year.? If we start 8 and 0 next year you can call me a fool for not believing this culture was sustainable year after year and we have arrived.

And yes, I do think we are going to beat Iowa!
 

btowngopher

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Culture is absolutely important for any program. Each coach needs to be himself and establish his own culture to be successful. Kill did that. PJ is doing that.

The starting line was in a completely different place for PJ than it was for Kill. PJ took over a 9 win team. Kill took over a broken program in jeopardy of being sanctioned by the NCAA for failing academics. Kill raised the bar academically to an elite level which according to numbers I researched PJ has not quite maintained. Yes, we are still doing very well right now, but PJ is maintaining not establishing or elevating (according to the numbers I saw)

PJ has benefited in 2019 from our most favorable schedule to start a season in a very long time. To his credit he has rode the early season momentum to 9 and 0. Awesome! But many of the leaders of the 9 and 0 team were leaders of the 9 and 4 team.

I’m very happy we are 9 and 0 but before I bow down and join in the worship of PJ I’d like to see what next year brings. Many of us said during the summer that we had a good opportunity to be 8 and 0 entering the Penn St game. We were, we won! Awesome!

PJ doesn’t believe in momentum. I do. Whatever he calls this....I’d just like to see if he can repeat it. Or are we 7 and 5 next year.? If we start 8 and 0 next year you can call me a fool for not believing this culture was sustainable year after year and we have arrived.

And yes, I do think we are going to beat Iowa!
Pretty sure it was during Mason's tenure that the academics tanked and Brew got them turned around.
 

Mitu

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Kill is probably the most overrated coach I’ve witnessed (was in undergrad during both the Brewster and Kill years). Our fanbase had grown so complacent and accepting of mediocrity that we were fine with Kill trotting out supremely average teams every year (seriously, Matt Limegrover offenses?). Also, if the Kill culture was so great, explain how Tracy Claeys’ (his lieutenant for his entire career) legacy was a massive sexual assault scandal.


Everything between Mason and Fleck was a gigantic embarrassment and anyone making excuses for the era in between needs to check themselves. If you believe we’re a proud program with a rich history, you’d never be ok with Brewster, Kill, or Claeys.
 
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60's Guy

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You can vilify Kill and Claeys all you want if it helps you elevate PJ. But, I can disagree right?

You asked a question about how the assault scandal could happen if Claeys was a responsible leader.?
The main people involved had been under the guidance of Claeys for all of a couple of weeks. Pretty tough to establish your core beliefs in freshmen in a couple weeks. There is also the contention it was consensual.

My suggestion: As a young person, don’t put yourself in a position of responsibility if you don’t think a lynch mob mentality couldn’t put you in exactly the same position. Of course you are better than that. You would never let something like that happen. Don’t be so quick criticize until you have been in the arena yourself.
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0

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Were you going for one of these definitions?

cul·ture
/ˈkəlCHər/

BIOLOGY
the cultivation of bacteria, tissue cells, etc. in an artificial medium containing nutrients.
"the cells proliferate readily in culture"

a preparation of cells obtained from a culture.
"the bacterium was isolated in two blood cultures"
the cultivation of plants.
"this variety of lettuce is popular for its ease of culture"

synonyms: cultivation, growing, farming; More
agriculture, husbandry, agronomy
"the culture of crops"

verb BIOLOGY
verb: culture; 3rd person present: cultures; past tense: cultured; past participle: cultured; gerund or present participle: culturing

maintain (tissue cells, bacteria, etc.) in conditions suitable for growth.
 

Spoofin

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Kill is probably the most overrated coach I’ve witnessed (was in undergrad during both the Brewster and Kill years). Our fanbase had grown so complacent and accepting of mediocrity that we were fine with Kill trotting out supremely average teams every year (seriously, Matt Limegrover offenses?). Also, if the Kill culture was so great, explain how Tracy Claeys’ (his lieutenant for his entire career) legacy was a massive sexual assault scandal.


Everything between Mason and Fleck was a gigantic embarrassment and anyone making excuses for the era in between needs to check themselves. If you believe we’re a proud program with a rich history, you’d never be ok with Brewster, Kill, or Claeys.
We can (and have) debated the level of Kill/Claeys on here - but you couldn’t possibly be more wrong by calling Kill an embarrassment. You are very naive if you think we are 9-0 this year without Kill’s time here.


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MNVCGUY

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Kill is probably the most overrated coach I’ve witnessed (was in undergrad during both the Brewster and Kill years). Our fanbase had grown so complacent and accepting of mediocrity that we were fine with Kill trotting out supremely average teams every year (seriously, Matt Limegrover offenses?). Also, if the Kill culture was so great, explain how Tracy Claeys’ (his lieutenant for his entire career) legacy was a massive sexual assault scandal.


Everything between Mason and Fleck was a gigantic embarrassment and anyone making excuses for the era in between needs to check themselves. If you believe we’re a proud program with a rich history, you’d never be ok with Brewster, Kill, or Claeys.
It is no secret I was not a fan of Kill, but he was a solid coach and did some good things while he was here. When you look at the seniors on our current roster it is clear that Kill/Claeys were able to bring in some quality players.

The only thing that I still take some issue with is when people try to make the argument that Fleck inherited a 9 win team and frame it in a way that makes it sound like he inherited a ton of talent. The statement is true in that the team in 2016 won 9 games but that 2017 roster was deeply flawed and no coach was taking that team to 9 wins in 2017.
 

Cruze

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You can vilify Kill and Claeys all you want if it helps you elevate PJ. But, I can disagree right? You asked a question about how the assault scandal could happen if Claeys was a responsible leader? The main people involved had been under the guidance of Claeys for all of a couple of weeks. Pretty tough to establish your core beliefs in freshmen in a couple weeks. There is also the contention it was consensual.
Everyone has the right to be wrong. Kill and Clayes recruited and instilled their culture in every player who was involved in the sexual assault scandal. They own it. Although something like that could happen with players who Fleck has recruited and instilled with his own culture, does anyone doubt that Fleck would have handled the situation far differently than Claeys including holding his players accountable for their behavior whether or not it was consensual?

Claeys failure to lead and control his team, his tone deaf public comments, and his lack of support for Coyle and Kaler's decisions in the matter are what got him fired. He absolutely deserved everything that happened to him, including the comments Coyle made about the need for a change of culture when he introduced Fleck at the press conference.
 
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GFBfan

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Kill is probably the most overrated coach I’ve witnessed (was in undergrad during both the Brewster and Kill years). Our fanbase had grown so complacent and accepting of mediocrity that we were fine with Kill trotting out supremely average teams every year (seriously, Matt Limegrover offenses?). Also, if the Kill culture was so great, explain how Tracy Claeys’ (his lieutenant for his entire career) legacy was a massive sexual assault scandal.


Everything between Mason and Fleck was a gigantic embarrassment and anyone making excuses for the era in between needs to check themselves. If you believe we’re a proud program with a rich history, you’d never be ok with Brewster, Kill, or Claeys.
You couldn't be more wrong with almost this entire post.

Kill built the team up to a point where they were consistent and competing for a BIG West title. Yes, the Matt Limegrover offenses weren't dynamic, but they played to their strength. Don't forget that the defense that was played during that time was some of the best we've had in a long time.

Your bolded is completely out of whack, or did you forget about the PJ defense that was played up through the middle of last year. I'd call that an embarrassment. Good thing about that is PJ finally made a change.

Kill was also highly involved in the biggest change over all that time, the Athletes Village. That was a game changer in helping this program become more relevant.
 

Spoofin

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Also, if the Kill culture was so great, explain how Tracy Claeys’ (his lieutenant for his entire career) legacy was a massive sexual assault scandal.
Kill and Clayes recruited and instilled their culture in every player who was involved in the sexual assault scandal. They own it.
I assume both of you are equally diligent about blaming PJ and his culture for the 2 WMU players that committed armed robbery while he was there. They were actually found guilty of their crime.

Personally, I think it is crazy talk to blame a coach for a single event if not part of a trend. I think the U has done great with both Kill and PJ in finding coaches that care about more than just football.


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Thymanst

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Here’s how I remember the different cultures at the “U”

Mason: he improved the team a ton based on his zone blocking scene on offense - I don’t remember any accolades for students gpa - he did send linemen and running backs to the nfl - his defenses were forgettable - there were always just short of being relevant on a national stage.

Brewster: good recruiter but didn’t get a bunch of the players to actually play - couldn’t keep coordinators and lack of continuity was his downfall.

Kill : brought in full staff that had been together for a long time - didn’t get the best recruits but coached them up to real players - gpa improved and stories of how parents would be glad to have him as coach - sent several defensive players to nfl -would have been here a long time if not for the medical issues which led to him leaving

Claeys: had a successful season - not much personality for a head coach and had incident that raised red flags - recruiting class cupboard was bare. Didn’t hear much about grades

Fleck: one of hottest coaches on market - came in with a lot of energy and ideas and outwardly touting changing the culture. Did it at WMU and has done the same thing here - students gpas are good and has players doing things in community and on campus that are unique. HAs a way of including people to feel they are a spartan of something bigger. Grown interest in gopher football to a national stage.
 

Ope3

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Kill Head coaching record
Overall 152–99
Minnesota: 29–29 14–21

Brewster
Minnesota: 15–30 6–21

A big improvement over Brewster

Mason
Overall 123–121–1
Minnesota: 64–57 32–48
Don't forget Jeff Horton. His official record is 2-3, not including a vacated loss to Ohio St. Finished on a 2 game winning streak. The win he led the Gophers to over Iowa may have been my fondest until quite recently.
 

BroncoRedux

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We can (and have) debated the level of Kill/Claeys on here - but you couldn’t possibly be more wrong by calling Kill an embarrassment. You are very naive if you think we are 9-0 this year without Kill’s time here.


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You are right, without Kill this team is not 9 - 0. I don't know about the naive part :D
 

MaxyJR1

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Does anyone know how many of Kill's guys are employed at this time? Limegrover has to be thankful for getting fired by Claeys. Kill have a good system for him and he would have been Mason successful if not for health issues.

Claeys not working
Sawvel not working (living in MN)
Johnson?
others?
 
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