Sneak Preview of Smith/Pitino Comparison through 6 Seasons

Hates Monikers

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Was that before the ball had air added?
I am tired of people going back 100 years to find a silver lining.
We don't have many championships, but we have been competitive over the years. We've been cyclical, but competitive enough to keep fans interested until the next high. Until the 2000s, that is. We've now been through 20 years and three coaches without feeling like we can really play with anybody. But we should be able to have seasons like that a few times each decade, even without cheating.

1960s – One second-place finish, two thirds
1970s – B1G championship, one second, one third
1980s – B1G championship, two Sweet Sixteens
1990s – Elite Eight
 

CPTMidnight

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:rolleyes:

I'll bet that Nick Saban gives each of his players hugs when they make a mistake in practice or during a game. Krzyzewski probably does too, along with telling them why they're special.
I doubt communication via hugs would help. Fortunately there are communication and coaching methods that dont need to rely upon either hugs or screaming
 
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dpodoll68

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I doubt communication via hugs would help. Fortunately there are communication and coaching methods that dont need to rely upon either hugs or screaming
I honestly refuse to believe that players complained or didn't want to play for him because they might get yelled at and/or hear swearing. What a bunch of baby snowflakes they are, if true.
 

builtbadgers

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I didn't catch this the first time, but wow even Wikipedia give us credit for 2-3 National Championships and several conference championships.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Golden_Gophers_men%27s_basketball
Truly a history of mediocrity. Not even top 50 all time and under .500 in the conference. No coach actually got it done in a meaningful way and without cheating. Now is the time, what a great opportunity. Tons of coaches would love the chance to build. Nearly no pressure getting 5 years of 30-60 and still having your job and fans who think your great, think your a great recruiter.Win now, win the conference !
 

Gophers_4life

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I honestly refuse to believe that players complained or didn't want to play for him because they might get yelled at
I guess you've never been yelled at, let alone screamed at. What a sheltered life you lead.

No one said anything about hearing curse words. That's nothing. Being screamed at by someone who is supposed to be a mentor to 18-19-20 year old young men .... horrible.

If you really think that is acceptable, then I hope you are never allowed to raise children.
 

GopherJake

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Doh-Kay. He’s prolly a wife beater too, amirite?
 

alchemy2u

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Was that before the ball had air added?
I am tired of people going back 100 years to find a silver lining.
You are the one that mentioned over 100 years... just because it didn’t happen in front of your eyes doesn’t mean it never happen.


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CPTMidnight

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I honestly refuse to believe that players complained or didn't want to play for him because they might get yelled at and/or hear swearing. What a bunch of baby snowflakes they are, if true.
You misunderstand. Was not that they didn't or they couldn't find someone. Just does not work that well anymore with the current generation. There were some other issues mentioned but not as big of a deal. His style was on the way out in the 90s. In 2018 mentoring young men is different. Take it for wHat it's worth. It's on an anonymous message board and its 3rd hand. It's what they told me their sons told them.
 

MennoSota

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You are the one that mentioned over 100 years... just because it didn’t happen in front of your eyes doesn’t mean it never happen.


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You are desperate. Only a desperate person would argue that a championship in the 1920s or 30s meant Gopher basketball isn't historically a mid/low tier program. Congratulations on being an official rube.
 

alchemy2u

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I honestly refuse to believe that players complained or didn't want to play for him because they might get yelled at and/or hear swearing. What a bunch of baby snowflakes they are, if true.
Trivializing the situation doesn’t make it right.


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builtbadgers

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Trivializing the situation doesn’t make it right.


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So you would be willing to look at every power 6 conference school to see where we stack up historically. Check out their wiki pages and you will find we have been the definition of mediocre.
 

WoodburyTim

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I would say neither one of them has had the career that we want at the U. You do know that Tubby is no longer our coach and will never again be our coach.

So what is your point? Are you trying to worship Tubby? Are you trying to again make the point that Tubby shouldn't have been fired by the U (he has been fired twice since coaching at the U). Are you trying to attack Pitino? We all know that Pitino has had some bad seasons as he learns the job and recruiting. Do you want him fired? Do you want them to stop wearing white uniforms on the light colored court? What are you trying to accomplish with this? I don't get it, what is the point of taking the time to do this work?
He laid out numbers and has been a pretty consistent proponent of Pitino. It is okay to have a conversation. Whereas yours is is just another in long line of silly alchemy posts.
 

alchemy2u

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So you would be willing to look at every power 6 conference school to see where we stack up historically. Check out their wiki pages and you will find we have been the definition of mediocre.
What does this have to do with his comments about yelling at players?


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alchemy2u

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He laid out numbers and has been a pretty consistent proponent of Pitino. It is okay to have a conversation. Whereas yours is is just another in long line of silly alchemy posts.
Please follow along, it helps with reading comprehension.


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manderson1984

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I honestly refuse to believe that players complained or didn't want to play for him because they might get yelled at and/or hear swearing. What a bunch of baby snowflakes they are, if true.
Be better than calling soft kids who Tubby himself recruited "snowflakes". Plus if they are "soft" that's on himself for recruiting/not changing it. Also when he left, how many kids ran away/transferred (I think it'd also be a fair question to ask how many would leave in Pitino was let go too)? It is true this generation responds differently to criticism. That's our fault as adults. A couple good books for that is The Coddling of the American Mind or iGen if you'd like to go more in depth or learn more about this trend, but that doesn't necessarily fit this thread.

Tubby and his wife are great people and I'd argue with anybody who said different. Tubby himself has proven to be a decent coach as well. The fact of the matter is though, whether it was fair or not, he had lost the trust of many people in the state. At the MN basketball coaches clinic they wouldn't give Tubby the time of day or time to run a clinic because he was so bad. They only offered him the keynote speaker at lunch. Even then he mumbled and made no sense and nobody listened or cared. He also had burned the AAU bridges by not going to AAU events enough. This is when there was still the EYBL in MN. This was a main reason for his exit in Memphis so quickly as well.
 

Gophs24

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I like Pitino and like others have said I do not want to go through another coaching change and be in "rebuild" mold again. So lets get EC back and get this thing rolling this season! Make a run! Make a good impression on recruits!
 

Angrygopher1

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I like Pitino and like others have said I do not want to go through another coaching change and be in "rebuild" mold again. So lets get EC back and get this thing rolling this season! Make a run! Make a good impression on recruits!
Curry is still having problems with swelling in his knee and will be visiting Mayo Clinic soon for second of third opinion. So his comeback will be very limited or put off for awhile.
 

cjbfbp

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I like Pitino and like others have said I do not want to go through another coaching change and be in "rebuild" mold again. So lets get EC back and get this thing rolling this season! Make a run! Make a good impression on recruits!
Don't you mean recruit? (singular)

"I do not want to go through another coaching change and be in "rebuild" mold again." Yeah, I keep reading that. Reminds me of the attitudes expressed by some abused or unhappy spouses or people who stay in jobs they hate.
 

manderson1984

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I think the rebuild question has more to do with an earlier question I brought up. When Tubby was let go, we only lost Joe Coleman (who may have been out anyways). If Pitino is let go, who do we lose? Would Amir grad transfer or go pro? Would we lose Oturo or Kalchaeur (Probably not). I like Pitino and am happier with his improvement coaching this season (Thank you Coach Jeter), but I don't know how big of a rebuild it'd be? I think the cupboard is significantly less bare especially at the underclassman levels than when Tubby was let go. Now that being said, I'd rather not find out and hope this year continues to go well.
 

Gophs24

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Don't you mean recruit? (singular)

"I do not want to go through another coaching change and be in "rebuild" mold again." Yeah, I keep reading that. Reminds me of the attitudes expressed by some abused or unhappy spouses or people who stay in jobs they hate.
of course Hurt for this cycle. But Dawson, Suggs, Carlson, Dainja, Washburn, for the next cyle
 

SelectionSunday

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Curry is still having problems with swelling in his knee and will be visiting Mayo Clinic soon for second of third opinion. So his comeback will be very limited or put off for awhile.
Ugh.

Is this true?

If it is, not liking the sounds of that. I think it's time to temper our expectations that EC will return anytime soon (if at all?).
 

Gophs24

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I think the rebuild question has more to do with an earlier question I brought up. When Tubby was let go, we only lost Joe Coleman (who may have been out anyways). If Pitino is let go, who do we lose? Would Amir grad transfer or go pro? Would we lose Oturo or Kalchaeur (Probably not). I like Pitino and am happier with his improvement coaching this season (Thank you Coach Jeter), but I don't know how big of a rebuild it'd be? I think the cupboard is significantly less bare especially at the underclassman levels than when Tubby was let go. Now that being said, I'd rather not find out and hope this year continues to go well.
if Pitino is indeed canned I don't think anyone is going to like the roster we have left. but of course a lot of that depends on who is brought it
-and 1 could already argue that we will be losing 2 of our top 5 players already for next year in Murphy & Pree so it is already a mini rebuild
-we would probably lose Tre Williams for sure
-EC? If the news is true that he is still having issues and his coach is gone does he decide its best to move closer to home?
-Carr & Willis...with them having to already sit out this year helps our chances for them to stay. but the coach that has fought for them and wanted them now gone do they look around?
-Coffey like you said...does he say screw it and move on?

lots of what ifs....but its almost always a rebuild when a coach is fired
 

MennoSota

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Ugh.

Is this true?

If it is, not liking the sounds of that. I think it's time to temper our expectations that EC will return anytime soon (if at all?).
It's the curse of the Gopher...
"If anything can go wrong to derail a season...it will go wrong."
So sad...[emoji26][emoji25][emoji22][emoji24]
 

gopherguy15

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Curry is still having problems with swelling in his knee and will be visiting Mayo Clinic soon for second of third opinion. So his comeback will be very limited or put off for awhile.
Are you kidding me?!

Look, I get that he had a very significant knee injury and not everyone can come back 100%, but it's been almost a year and a half since it occurred. I feel bad for the kid. This sucks.
 

EG#9

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Thanks for posting these incredibly depressing stats. The records of both coaches can't be described in any other way than pathetic. I know we've had an inordinate amount of bad luck in the post Clem era and with regards to these two coaches specifically we had the Royce and Trevor situation, then the Al Nolen injury, then the Al Nolen ineligibility (one of the rare kids I've seen become academically ineligible during a season in all of college basketball) then you had Trevor get hurt, then you had Buckles bizarrely not be allowed to transfer in during Pitino's first year, then you had Akeem get hurt (after already losing Fitzgerald pre season) in Pitino's 4th year, then all the injuries and the expulsion in Pitino's 5th year. I am sure I am missing some things that have hurt the teams potential as these are just a few that came to mind immediately. However if you gave Tubby and Pitino a 20% bump in wins in every category Selection Sunday listed...most of the records would still be unacceptable. Bad luck has certainly been a factor for both coaches, but it doesn't fully explain the miserable results.

I do think every coach at non blue bloods has a few chances at an inflection point where there program can either take the next step or fall behind. I thought the Miami game for Pitino was one of those points where the Barn was packed and a lot of interest was there in the program. You have to win those games. Another one was a loss in year 1 at home to Northwestern which might have been the difference between making the tournament and ending up in the NIT. Obviously, there was a chance to win the B1G tournament in year 4 and advance in the NCAA's as well that year. For Tubby I remember a huge home game early in one of his later years against Michigan or Michigan State. The Gophers and the Michigan team were both ranked and the Gophers had a lead late only to suffer the typical Tubby collapse where they started sitting on the ball too early as Tubby yelled for them to "swing it". There was also a B1G Tournament final appearance where putting a tournament title on the resume would have been great and the 3 chances in the NCAA's to make a run. We win some of these games and the outlook of the program can change pretty dramatically.
 

howeda7

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Curry is still having problems with swelling in his knee and will be visiting Mayo Clinic soon for second of third opinion. So his comeback will be very limited or put off for awhile.
You've got to be kidding me. This program will be forever cursed.
 

howeda7

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Curry is still having problems with swelling in his knee and will be visiting Mayo Clinic soon for second of third opinion. So his comeback will be very limited or put off for awhile.
Pitino said game time decision in his presser today.
 

Keyser Söze

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Curry is still having problems with swelling in his knee and will be visiting Mayo Clinic soon for second of third opinion. So his comeback will be very limited or put off for awhile.
Where did you hear this?
 

GoodasGold

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Probably a Good idea to take his surgeon’s knife away.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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I honestly refuse to believe that players complained or didn't want to play for him because they might get yelled at and/or hear swearing. What a bunch of baby snowflakes they are, if true.
Always find it interesting to see where and with what frequency and determination certain posters choose to weigh in and plant their flag.
 
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