Should a parent not have empathy?

KillerGopherFan

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Apparently, the goal posts have been moved. We thought it was about separating families. Nope.
Now detaining families at all, is an issue.

Here’s Dick Durbin’s Twitter statements:
https://mobile.twitter.com/senatordurbin?lang=en

Democrats don’t want catch, detain, and expedite an asylum hearing. That would be a deterrent to illegal immigration.

They only want catch and release with a hearing date that they will not show up for. Open borders!
 

saintpaulguy

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Apparently, the goal posts have been moved. We thought it was about separating families. Nope.
Now detaining families at all, is an issue.

Here’s Dick Durbin’s Twitter statements:
https://mobile.twitter.com/senatordurbin?lang=en

Democrats don’t want catch, detain, and expedite an asylum hearing. That would be a deterrent to illegal immigration.

They only want catch and release with a hearing date that they will not show up for. Open borders!
Let it go. Even the President disagrees with your 12 pages.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Let it go. Even the President disagrees with your 12 pages.
Oh, I’m not the only one who believes this. The Chicago Tribune’s John Kass summed it up well, and I’m pretty sure he’s an Independent.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-trump-immigration-kass-0620-story.html

...Republicans and Trump are now focusing on a new plan for the families who don’t properly seek asylum at border crossings, but who are caught illegally crossing the border.

The law now limits the amount of time minors can be held to 20 days. One Republican plan would allow children to be kept with their parents in detention for longer than that. A revised bill would give the Department of Homeland Security powers to use $7 billion in “border technology funding” to build family detention centers.

Can you see the problem here? Refugee camps growing along the southern border, families and children held for extended periods, with the left increasing its call to let everybody in and put an end to something as cruel and exclusive as borders.

It could serve as an incentive for others to come, and our new refugee camps could grow even larger, as desperate people run from poverty, the cruelty of their corrupt Central American governments and the violence back home.

In the short term at least, Schumer and the Democrats won’t budge. Schumer’s got those weaponized children in his quiver and ample support in the media.

But what are the long-term consequences? We’re not really thinking about the long term, are we?

We don’t want to see those children crying. We just want an end to it. And the long-term consequence of policy isn’t on our minds.
 

Some Day...Maybe

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say that to Kate in San Francisco. or the Monticello Minnesota school advisor killed by an illegal few months back... he was deported 3 times. dont worry he only got 4 years in prison id give him 40
I'll do that when the right wing extremists tell the parents and siblings of the kids killed at Stoneman Douglas, Sandy Hook Elementary, Columbine, the Oklahoma City bombing, Aurora school shooting, Charleston church shooting, the Las Vegas shooting, etc, etc, etc, that the US born, white male, won't hurt them.

The fact of the matter is immigrants and illegal immigrants are less likely to commit a crime in the United States than natural born citizens are, and when foreign born people in the US do commit a crime it tends to be a misdemeanor. Also, crime rates do not increase with immigration. In fact, crime rates have been declining as immigration has been increasing.

There are a lot of other issues our politicians in this country could be focused on to make lives better for all of us, hatred will never lead to prosperity. What needs to happen is the money needs to get out of politics, the gerrymandering needs to stop, and the asinine, archaic, electoral college needs to be done away with because of it's obvious obsolescence.
 

cncmin

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More important than anything else regarding Trump's actions today, they prove that KGF was wrong about everything. Again. :cool: That Fox Noise is doing you very well KGF. Keep up the great effort toward complete ignorance and bliss...you're just about there.
 

KillerGopherFan

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The fact of the matter is immigrants and illegal immigrants are less likely to commit a crime in the United States than natural born citizens are, and when foreign born people in the US do commit a crime it tends to be a misdemeanor. Also, crime rates do not increase with immigration. In fact, crime rates have been declining as immigration has been increasing.
Ok, you’ve motivated me to respond.
First off, the assumption that you make that declining crime rates correlate with increasing immigration, I assume you are suggesting that it is a factor. I think one of the Lefties was pointing out to one of the Righties the other day is that there’s a difference between correlation and causation. Your theory is completely loony and you have no evidence to support that they are related.

Secondly (and I knew I had seen this data before, but wasn’t motivated enough to look it up until your post), the notion that you, JFT’s and others have placed their faith in, isn’t a proven fact. “In fact”, data collected by the Federal Government (a non-partisan source) shows otherwise and was published in January:

https://cis.org/Camarota/NonCitizens-Committed-Disproportionate-Share-Federal-Crimes-201116

... New data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission shows that of those convicted of federal crimes between 2011 and 2016, 44.2 percent were not U.S. citizens — 21.4 percent, if immigration crimes are excluded. In comparison, non-citizens are 8.4 percent of the adult population. Of this 8.4 percent, about 4 percent are illegal immigrants and about 4 percent are legal immigrants...

Among the findings of the new data:

Areas where non-citizens account for a much larger share of convictions than their 8.4 percent share of the adult population include:

42.4 percent of kidnapping convictions;
31.5 percent of drug convictions;
22.9 percent of money laundering convictions;
13.4 percent of administration of justice offenses (e.g. witness tampering, obstruction, and contempt);
17.8 percent of economic crimes (e.g. larceny, embezzlement, and fraud);
13 percent of other convictions (e.g. bribery, civil rights, environmental, and prison offenses); and
12.8 percent of auto thefts.
Areas where non-citizens account for a share of convictions roughly equal to their share of the adult population include:

9.6 percent of assaults;
8.9 percent of homicides; and
7.5 percent of firearm crimes.
Areas where non-citizens account for a share of convictions lower than their share of the adult population include:

4.1 percent of sex crimes;
3.3 percent of robberies;
4.5 percent of arsons; and
0 percent of burglaries.

Data. These tables showing convictions were compiled by the Government Accountability Office at the request of the Senate Judicatory Committee based on data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission "Interactive Sourcebook of Federal Sentencing Statistics". Convictions are in the federal courts for felonies and class A misdemeanors. Death penalty cases and petty offenses are not included. The non-citizen share of the overall adult population comes from the public-use data file of the 2011-2016 American Community Survey collected by the U.S. Census Bureau.
 

KillerGopherFan

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More important than anything else regarding Trump's actions today, they prove that KGF was wrong about everything. Again. :cool: That Fox Noise is doing you very well KGF. Keep up the great effort toward complete ignorance and bliss...you're just about there.
Exactly what was I wrong about. Not knowing a mislabeled graph was mislabeled? You got me.

Apparently the crime rate evidence isn’t so obvious.

If you have something you want to debate, tell me what it is. Or, you can just go on making smart@ss comments and proving nothing
 

GopherJake

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Gonna Be on a Record....Not Mine Of Course did not say correlation is causation. He *is* saying the negative correlation disproves the causation you assert, KFC.

I’ll draw you a flowchart, someday, maybe, because I’m sure you have no understanding of what I just said.

Happy posting!
 

jamiche

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Ok, you’ve motivated me to respond.
First off, the assumption that you make that declining crime rates correlate with increasing immigration, I assume you are suggesting that it is a factor. I think one of the Lefties was pointing out to one of the Righties the other day is that there’s a difference between correlation and causation. Your theory is completely loony and you have no evidence to support that they are related.

Secondly (and I knew I had seen this data before, but wasn’t motivated enough to look it up until your post), the notion that you, JFT’s and others have placed their faith in, isn’t a proven fact. “In fact”, data collected by the Federal Government (a non-partisan source) shows otherwise and was published in January:

https://cis.org/Camarota/NonCitizens-Committed-Disproportionate-Share-Federal-Crimes-201116

... New data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission shows that of those convicted of federal crimes between 2011 and 2016, 44.2 percent were not U.S. citizens — 21.4 percent, if immigration crimes are excluded. In comparison, non-citizens are 8.4 percent of the adult population. Of this 8.4 percent, about 4 percent are illegal immigrants and about 4 percent are legal immigrants...

Among the findings of the new data:

Areas where non-citizens account for a much larger share of convictions than their 8.4 percent share of the adult population include:

42.4 percent of kidnapping convictions;
31.5 percent of drug convictions;
22.9 percent of money laundering convictions;
13.4 percent of administration of justice offenses (e.g. witness tampering, obstruction, and contempt);
17.8 percent of economic crimes (e.g. larceny, embezzlement, and fraud);
13 percent of other convictions (e.g. bribery, civil rights, environmental, and prison offenses); and
12.8 percent of auto thefts.
Areas where non-citizens account for a share of convictions roughly equal to their share of the adult population include:

9.6 percent of assaults;
8.9 percent of homicides; and
7.5 percent of firearm crimes.
Areas where non-citizens account for a share of convictions lower than their share of the adult population include:

4.1 percent of sex crimes;
3.3 percent of robberies;
4.5 percent of arsons; and
0 percent of burglaries.

Data. These tables showing convictions were compiled by the Government Accountability Office at the request of the Senate Judicatory Committee based on data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission "Interactive Sourcebook of Federal Sentencing Statistics". Convictions are in the federal courts for felonies and class A misdemeanors. Death penalty cases and petty offenses are not included. The non-citizen share of the overall adult population comes from the public-use data file of the 2011-2016 American Community Survey collected by the U.S. Census Bureau.
I thought the fed govt was the Deep State and not to be trusted. The GAO most of all.
 

justthefacts

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Ok, you’ve motivated me to respond.
First off, the assumption that you make that declining crime rates correlate with increasing immigration, I assume you are suggesting that it is a factor. I think one of the Lefties was pointing out to one of the Righties the other day is that there’s a difference between correlation and causation. Your theory is completely loony and you have no evidence to support that they are related.

Secondly (and I knew I had seen this data before, but wasn’t motivated enough to look it up until your post), the notion that you, JFT’s and others have placed their faith in, isn’t a proven fact. “In fact”, data collected by the Federal Government (a non-partisan source) shows otherwise and was published in January:

https://cis.org/Camarota/NonCitizens-Committed-Disproportionate-Share-Federal-Crimes-201116

... New data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission shows that of those convicted of federal crimes between 2011 and 2016, 44.2 percent were not U.S. citizens — 21.4 percent, if immigration crimes are excluded. In comparison, non-citizens are 8.4 percent of the adult population. Of this 8.4 percent, about 4 percent are illegal immigrants and about 4 percent are legal immigrants...

Among the findings of the new data:

Areas where non-citizens account for a much larger share of convictions than their 8.4 percent share of the adult population include:

42.4 percent of kidnapping convictions;
31.5 percent of drug convictions;
22.9 percent of money laundering convictions;
13.4 percent of administration of justice offenses (e.g. witness tampering, obstruction, and contempt);
17.8 percent of economic crimes (e.g. larceny, embezzlement, and fraud);
13 percent of other convictions (e.g. bribery, civil rights, environmental, and prison offenses); and
12.8 percent of auto thefts.
Areas where non-citizens account for a share of convictions roughly equal to their share of the adult population include:

9.6 percent of assaults;
8.9 percent of homicides; and
7.5 percent of firearm crimes.
Areas where non-citizens account for a share of convictions lower than their share of the adult population include:

4.1 percent of sex crimes;
3.3 percent of robberies;
4.5 percent of arsons; and
0 percent of burglaries.

Data. These tables showing convictions were compiled by the Government Accountability Office at the request of the Senate Judicatory Committee based on data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission "Interactive Sourcebook of Federal Sentencing Statistics". Convictions are in the federal courts for felonies and class A misdemeanors. Death penalty cases and petty offenses are not included. The non-citizen share of the overall adult population comes from the public-use data file of the 2011-2016 American Community Survey collected by the U.S. Census Bureau.
What about state crimes?

Also, from the bio of the Executive Director:

"Animated by a pro-immigrant, low-immigration vision which seeks fewer immigrants but a warmer welcome for those admitted"
 

KillerGopherFan

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Gonna Be on a Record....Not Mine Of Course did not say correlation is causation. He *is* saying the negative correlation disproves the causation you assert, KFC.

I’ll draw you a flowchart, someday, maybe, because I’m sure you have no understanding of what I just said.

Happy posting!
No, Jake. I said it’s not the same.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Correlation is not Causation. I further said he had no evidence to show that decreases in crime were related to increases in illegal immigration.

So I guess you’re saying that illegal immigration IS the reason for the decline of crime in the US. Brilliant!

Something tells me that JTF won’t be supporting you on that.
 

KillerGopherFan

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What about state crimes?

Also, from the bio of the Executive Director:

"Animated by a pro-immigrant, low-immigration vision which seeks fewer immigrants but a warmer welcome for those admitted"
I’m not the one suggestion the data is conclusive. In fact, I just said it’s contradictory and the claim of low illegal crime rates “isn’t so obvious”. I’m not sure given the nature of illegal immigration that many statistics can be conclusive.

And this data subtracted out immigration crimes to show the non-immigration crimes. I thought you’d appreciate that.

Regarding the Executive Director, this is not an opinion piece. He’s just displaying data collected by the federal government. Are you disputing the data? What is your evidence?
 

diehard

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Facts from NC, which has a significant illegal population. 30% of our state prison population is illegal immigrant. Very heavy on Hispanic gang influence. MS13 is no joke.
I’m not the one suggestion the data is conclusive. In fact, I just said it’s contradictory and the claim of low illegal crime rates “isn’t so obvious”. I’m not sure given the nature of illegal immigration that many statistics can be conclusive.

And this data subtracted out immigration crimes to show the non-immigration crimes. I thought you’d appreciate that.

Regarding the Executive Director, this is not an opinion piece. He’s just displaying data collected by the federal government. Are you disputing the data? What is your evidence?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

GopherJake

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No, Jake. I said it’s not the same.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Correlation is not Causation. I further said he had no evidence to show that decreases in crime were related to increases in illegal immigration.

So I guess you’re saying that illegal immigration IS the reason for the decline of crime in the US. Brilliant!

Something tells me that JTF won’t be supporting you on that.
If you are trying to make people think you are smart, this isn't a very good attempt.
 

howeda7

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Howie, I’m thinking the Federal Govt should invest in Time Shares for their housing. Wha da ya think?

Seriously, what do you think life was like on the journey through Mexico? I heard that it was over 100 degrees in Arizona today at one of the camps. They had air conditioning in the housing facilities and were probably happier than heck to have that, food, clothes, and bedding. Not to mention educational activities, toys, etc.

We owe them good keeping and the right to have their case heard. It doesn’t have to be better than Motel 6.
No on is saying that. But if we can monitor them for $36 a day and have 99% of them show up for their hearings, why are we instead spending tons of $ building temporary detention facilities? They're already having to release people because they have no more room. Doesn't that necessarily mean that shutting down this program was a huge mistake?
 

howeda7

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Facts from NC, which has a significant illegal population. 30% of our state prison population is illegal immigrant. Very heavy on Hispanic gang influence. MS13 is no joke.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
Are these facts from the same source that told you there were thousands of cases of voter fraud in Anson county?
 

cncmin

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CNN! Good one. We are now back where we were before which was flawed. If you have the flu, light yourself on fire, and then put it out, you still have the flu. The courts have already ruled there is a limit on how long they can detain kids. They either need to address that with legislation or somehow be able to process these families at a much faster rate. Obama didn't fix this part of the problem. Maybe Trump can.
Obama was never sent a reasonable bill by the Congressional Republicans to be signed.

He did have a two-year window, though, over 2009-2010 where Dems controlled government. Unfortunately, during those two years we were pretty busy with even bigger things; not to excuse the window of missed opportunity.
 

cncmin

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Exactly what was I wrong about. Not knowing a mislabeled graph was mislabeled? You got me.

Apparently the crime rate evidence isn’t so obvious.

If you have something you want to debate, tell me what it is. Or, you can just go on making smart@ss comments and proving nothing
huh? I was pretty clearly referring to all of your defense of Trump and his ridiculous policy, including defending the obvious lie that he couldn't do anything about it. Do you at least acknowledge that you were had?
 

cncmin

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No, Jake. I said it’s not the same.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Correlation is not Causation. I further said he had no evidence to show that decreases in crime were related to increases in illegal immigration.

So I guess you’re saying that illegal immigration IS the reason for the decline of crime in the US. Brilliant!

Something tells me that JTF won’t be supporting you on that.
Dude, KGF, while I admire your energy on this topic, SD...M's post simply provided strong evidence that your previous statement was wrong. That's all. And that is also what Jake is beating around the bush about in replies to you.
 

howeda7

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At least it wasn't tan.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/politics/melania-trump-jacket/index.html

First lady Melania Trump took a trip to the US-Mexico border on Thursday to tour an immigrant children's shelter, but her trip is getting attention not only for her action, but also for her wardrobe choice before and after the journey.

As the first lady boarded her plane from Andrews Air Force Base, she wore an olive green jacket. The back of the jacket read: "I really don't care. Do u?" in white graffiti-style lettering.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Dude, KGF, while I admire your energy on this topic, SD...M's post simply provided strong evidence that your previous statement was wrong. That's all. And that is also what Jake is beating around the bush about in replies to you.
Dude, you’re incoherent.
 

GopherJake

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At least it wasn't tan.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/politics/melania-trump-jacket/index.html

First lady Melania Trump took a trip to the US-Mexico border on Thursday to tour an immigrant children's shelter, but her trip is getting attention not only for her action, but also for her wardrobe choice before and after the journey.

As the first lady boarded her plane from Andrews Air Force Base, she wore an olive green jacket. The back of the jacket read: "I really don't care. Do u?" in white graffiti-style lettering.
This has to be an Onion bit. BGA! Link us to the Onion article. Please!!
 

KillerGopherFan

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At least it wasn't tan.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/politics/melania-trump-jacket/index.html

First lady Melania Trump took a trip to the US-Mexico border on Thursday to tour an immigrant children's shelter, but her trip is getting attention not only for her action, but also for her wardrobe choice before and after the journey.

As the first lady boarded her plane from Andrews Air Force Base, she wore an olive green jacket. The back of the jacket read: "I really don't care. Do u?" in white graffiti-style lettering.
Move along. Nothing to see here.
 
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