Seeing Past the Starting 5 - Bench Development

chri1673

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
171
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Could have posted in numerous other threads but figured i would start a new one.

A big concern I have is not developing any of these bench guys for the battles we will have in the B1G. Odds are someone is going to miss a game or 2 at some point in the season (hopefully no season ending injuries). Depending on who it is this could cause serious depth concerns that have been far to familiar in the Pitino era and have resulted in seasons imploding. Why not hedge your bets a little and get these guys some run. I am sure he realizes this but hasnt figured out a way to do so yet.

I understand I don’t know all of the inner workings of the team as far as who is or isn’t doing what they are told, but playing the starting backcourt all 30+ minutes against Ark. St has me concerned. Seems like we are an injury away from being in big trouble. Hopefully the game flow the next 3 games allows for starters minutes to be closer to the 20-25 range. I have been a big fan of Pitino as I really enjoy his sense of humor and not just talking in coach speak but the lack of depth development has me concerned yet again.

Gotta hope for some blowouts the next 3 games. Need the light to go on for IW and hopefully Stull can continue to improve his fitness (he looks significantly less athletic than in game highlights from Milwaukee). Having those 2 guys game ready would go a long ways for this team not just for foul trouble or injury situations but would push Amir and Dupree to go all out when they are in so we don’t have 10 minute spells where we forget they are on the court. Right now Pitinio cant really bench these guys (and they know it) as there (at least in Pitinos mind) are not any suitable backups.

This is not meant as a bash Pitino post, i know we are 8-2 with some solid wins but quality depth has me concerned a bit and will be needed in the Big 10 and hopeful tourney run.

Go Gophers!
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
38,653
Reaction score
1,135
Points
113
Looking at the bench, I think it is pretty good:

Curry- about to return hasn't been able to help yet
Stull- not there yet but is a proven D1 player
IW - has the ability, needs to "get it"
Stockman- pleasant surprise
Hurt- plays hard and knows how to play in the offense
Omersa - athletic but raw

If the lights go on for IW and Curry is fully ready....

You then might have a bench that is Oturu, McBrayer and Stull as your first three off the pine. That would be really strong. Or Oturu just keeps getting better and Curry is 6th man filling in at the 4 and the 5 and still logging 25 minutes.

To have Hurt, Stockman and Omersa at 9,10,11 looks pretty darn good to me. So much hinges on getting IW to be what he can be and Curry being healthy.
 

gray4heisman

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
270
Reaction score
12
Points
18
Though I wish it were not due to the current circumstances, Dupree's absence this week will give us an opportunity to force minutes onto others. I would like to get Stull 20-30 minutes and just see what game flow can do for him. It basically has to be Stull or Hurt taking over those minutes as Jelly obviously isn't there right now.

It will be nice to get Curry back. Hopefully tomorrow night goes smoothly for him and he can move forward in the direction he was after his Freshman year. A bench of Jelly, Stull, Hurt, Curry, Stockman really doesn't sound too bad except for the fact that three of them didn't play a second of time for the gophers last year, one of them is probably isn't a power 5 player, and the other has the body language of a 16 year old whose mother is forcing him to do chores on a Saturday. But I believe this is a serviceable group when using them in combinations with a scorer or two from our starting lineup.

My overarching thought is, we cannot lose Coffey or Murph. And with that, I do think at least one of them has to be on the court at any given moment for 38+ minutes per game. We cannot go 3+ minutes with both of them on the bench. This was clear for a stretch against Nebraska. Both have the ability to halt opposing teams' runs by AT LEAST getting to the free throw line.
 

gopherhoopsguy

Active member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,149
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Chri u nailed this! The lack of even trying to develop the bench is a great concern of mine. I don’t care what the starters do against a terrible team. We need to see what the bench can do in extended minutes.

The fan base expects this guys preform at a high level when trouble comes up but we never got to see what they can really do before that. Sure cross your fingers Pitino approach on no foul trouble or injuries will happen. But we know that won’t be the case.
 

RatherBeGolfing

Active member
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
1,193
Reaction score
1
Points
36
Looking at the bench, I think it is pretty good:

Curry- about to return hasn't been able to help yet
Stull- not there yet but is a proven D1 player
IW - has the ability, needs to "get it"
Stockman- pleasant surprise
Hurt- plays hard and knows how to play in the offense
Omersa - athletic but raw

If the lights go on for IW and Curry is fully ready....

You then might have a bench that is Oturu, McBrayer and Stull as your first three off the pine. That would be really strong. Or Oturu just keeps getting better and Curry is 6th man filling in at the 4 and the 5 and still logging 25 minutes.

To have Hurt, Stockman and Omersa at 9,10,11 looks pretty darn good to me. So much hinges on getting IW to be what he can be and Curry being healthy.
What? How anyone can look at that bench and call it pretty darn good or be comfortable with it is beyond me. It's no coincidence that our quality of play tends to go downhill almost the instant that one (or more) of these names comes in. Sure, some have their moments but we need guys who actually do something positive on the floor. I believe in Curry (though I think he's going to need time to adjust, it's not as simple as plug and play). Other than him, I don't know how you can have any confidence in any of those names
 

UpAndUnder43

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
374
Points
83
What? How anyone can look at that bench and call it pretty darn good or be comfortable with it is beyond me. It's no coincidence that our quality of play tends to go downhill almost the instant that one (or more) of these names comes in. Sure, some have their moments but we need guys who actually do something positive on the floor. I believe in Curry (though I think he's going to need time to adjust, it's not as simple as plug and play). Other than him, I don't know how you can have any confidence in any of those names
So like every team in the country our bench isn’t as good as or better than our starters? Disappointing to say the least.

A lot of really good teams have short benches and less quality depth than we do. I’m not saying our bench is good but it isn’t as bad as you’re making it seem.

IW-shown flashes of being really good. Shown a lot of being bad/inconsistent. Basically every backup PG in the country
Curry-been injured but was reliable when healthy.
Stockman-quality backup big. Watched the game Saturday with a Michigan fan friend. He really was complimentary of stockman. Thinks he’d help a lot of good teams.
Stull-came into the season out of shape after not being able to workout and practice with the team this summer. Hit some shots and did some nice things. Needs more run.
Omersa-getting better. Physical freak. Works hard. Will provide some necessary albeit ugly minutes even with Curry back
Hurt-definitely on the team. Has a jersey and everything. Makes the most basic of plays seem like a Herculean effort. Heard his brother can hoop. Give him PT to keep parents happy.
Rudrud-Could play an all American kid in a movie
Conroy-looks engages during warmups
 

Urbandale

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
1,331
Reaction score
108
Points
63
Looking at the bench, I think it is pretty good:

Curry- about to return hasn't been able to help yet
Stull- not there yet but is a proven D1 player
IW - has the ability, needs to "get it"
Stockman- pleasant surprise
Hurt- plays hard and knows how to play in the offense
Omersa - athletic but raw
.
I don't know, I don't think I share your confidence. Besides Stockman, who I really like in a reserve role and who can contribute on both ends of the floor, it gets tepid in a hurry. You have two guys - Hurt and Omersa - who are simply not threats offensively. They do some good things, and no one will question their grit, but they can't be counted on at all to score. Then you have two guys - Washington and Stull - who are simply not good defensively.

Of course, that's just a snapshot in time right now. Hopefully both those equations will change for the better going forward.

Curry is a big unknown. I really liked him way back when, but that was way back when.
 

HOOP DREAMS

Active member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,644
Reaction score
2
Points
38
Curry is a big unknown. I really liked him way back when, but that was way back when.
Shortly before he got injured I watched him play the ProAm, he was primed for a standout season. It may take him some time to knock the rust off, but I expect him to contribute right way, with good defense, rebounding and some put backs.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
20,584
Reaction score
270
Points
83
We've given our bench plenty of minutes.

The rotation will look something like this:

1. Murphy
2. Oturu
3. Coffey
4. Dupree
5. Gabe
6. Curry (He's been hurt, can't give a guy minutes if he can't play)
7. Stockman (He's gotten plenty of minutes)
8. IW (Has played close to 17 mins a game)
9. Hurt (Getting about what the #9 on the team should be getting)
10. Stull (Isn't going to play a whole bunch.)
 

Gopherbbdude

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
2,252
Reaction score
134
Points
63
the Negative comments are unreal.

the bench will be fine once Curry is back a full speed.
 

Madman

Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
258
Reaction score
0
Points
16
I feel Pitino's used the bench about as much as you can expect this year. I can't think of any glaring moments where I was clamoring to see more bench development. We should see the bench get a lot of opportunity the next 3 games.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
4,287
Reaction score
602
Points
113
Could have posted in numerous other threads but figured i would start a new one.

A big concern I have is not developing any of these bench guys for the battles we will have in the B1G. Odds are someone is going to miss a game or 2 at some point in the season (hopefully no season ending injuries). Depending on who it is this could cause serious depth concerns that have been far to familiar in the Pitino era and have resulted in seasons imploding. Why not hedge your bets a little and get these guys some run. I am sure he realizes this but hasnt figured out a way to do so yet.

I understand I don’t know all of the inner workings of the team as far as who is or isn’t doing what they are told, but playing the starting backcourt all 30+ minutes against Ark. St has me concerned. Seems like we are an injury away from being in big trouble. Hopefully the game flow the next 3 games allows for starters minutes to be closer to the 20-25 range. I have been a big fan of Pitino as I really enjoy his sense of humor and not just talking in coach speak but the lack of depth development has me concerned yet again.

Gotta hope for some blowouts the next 3 games. Need the light to go on for IW and hopefully Stull can continue to improve his fitness (he looks significantly less athletic than in game highlights from Milwaukee). Having those 2 guys game ready would go a long ways for this team not just for foul trouble or injury situations but would push Amir and Dupree to go all out when they are in so we don’t have 10 minute spells where we forget they are on the court. Right now Pitinio cant really bench these guys (and they know it) as there (at least in Pitinos mind) are not any suitable backups.

This is not meant as a bash Pitino post, i know we are 8-2 with some solid wins but quality depth has me concerned a bit and will be needed in the Big 10 and hopeful tourney run.

Go Gophers!
Nearly every team faces quality depth issues.
 

chri1673

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
171
Reaction score
0
Points
16
I feel Pitino's used the bench about as much as you can expect this year. I can't think of any glaring moments where I was clamoring to see more bench development. We should see the bench get a lot of opportunity the next 3 games.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
i have mostly noticed it the last handful of games specifically the last when i thought a couple starters looked disinterested. just made me open my eyes a bit. i came into the season thinking similar to what bga1 stated above, hopefully we get there in time for the b1g season. hopegully a couple guys can earn the coaches trust the next 3 games.
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
38,653
Reaction score
1,135
Points
113
We need a guy who the crowd loves when he comes in because he plays defense like the Tasmanian devil and dives on the floor after loose balls and just plays his fanny off for 5 minutes to spark the team. Who is that guy?
 

GopherJake

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
16,409
Reaction score
146
Points
63
We need a guy who the crowd loves when he comes in because he plays defense like the Tasmanian devil and dives on the floor after loose balls and just plays his fanny off for 5 minutes to spark the team. Who is that guy?
Not sure if he fits that description, but Mats takes defense very seriously and is positionally very sound. His help defense has been a real bright spot, in my opinion. He appears to understand the defensive schemes and his role well. He generally plays without foolish, lazy or out-of-position fouling as well.
 

GoodasGold

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
8,799
Reaction score
236
Points
63
Not sure if he fits that description, but Mats takes defense very seriously and is positionally very sound. His help defense has been a real bright spot, in my opinion. He appears to understand the defensive schemes and his role well. He generally plays without foolish, lazy or out-of-position fouling as well.
He speaks at least two languages fluently! :)
 

bfast

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
638
Reaction score
21
Points
18
Where does Eric Curry fit in with his 5 points and 5 rebounds per game?

1. A 4 and 5 combo of Murphy next to a choice of either Curry or Oturu?

Potential lineup:
Washington/McBrayer
Kalscheur
Coffey (can run point if needed)
Murphy
Curry/Oturu

2. Go big with Oturu, Murphy, and Curry? Going big may play to MN's strength I believe - dominate the glass and go inside a lot. They have some guys that can hit the three, but should always be second option to the inside game.

Potential lineup:
Coffey
Kalscheur
Murphy
Curry
Oturu
 
Last edited:

GopherJack

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
1,752
Reaction score
75
Points
48
Don't follow hoops super close, but can somebody please explain to me how Stull can still be out of shape? We have a brand new athletic facility, full-time strength and conditioning coaches, assistant coaches, etc. And the kid is still out of shape several months in to the season?!
 

Otis

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
3,299
Reaction score
202
Points
63
PG: Coffey
SG: Gabe
SF: Curry
PF: Murphy
C: Oturu

These guys would have to run a 2-3 zone to have any chance to be effective. Offense may be stagnant too, although I like how Oturu and Murphy have been passing this year.
 

UpAndUnder43

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
374
Points
83
Don't follow hoops super close, but can somebody please explain to me how Stull can still be out of shape? We have a brand new athletic facility, full-time strength and conditioning coaches, assistant coaches, etc. And the kid is still out of shape several months in to the season?!
I'm not sure if he is out of shape or just unathletic, to be honest.

But the difference is he was not allowed to workout with the team all summer. So if he is in shape, he isn't in as good of shape as his teammates, didn't get stronger, quicker, etc. in the off season so he is behind, even if he is fit.
 

march madness

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
2,771
Reaction score
30
Points
48
His highlights last year against inferior competition, while he was playing confident, is all I see. Some players cannot move to power 5 against more athletic players and keep up. Now he could play if we are in a zone or playing against a zone.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
94
Reaction score
0
Points
6
His highlights last year against inferior competition, while he was playing confident, is all I see. Some players cannot move to power 5 against more athletic players and keep up. Now he could play if we are in a zone or playing against a zone.
Scored 23 against Chicago-Loyola Final Four squad.
 
Top Bottom