Secretary of the Navy, Richard Spenser, Fired by POTUS

Deleted_User

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Our ignorant President disregarded 100 years of military law to pardon 3 Navy seals for war crimes they commited. To me, this is a continuation of the war crime. We are signatories to treaties which prohibit leaders of nations from pardoning those types of crime. Let me just say, Trump's pardons may be constitutional, but, they are illegal under international law. He committed another "high crime". Some lawyers may disagree with me. But, this is how it has been taught in Command and General Staff School and lesser leadership courses. Some of those courses were taught by me. The President should be in prison. End of story. I won't engage in a pointless debate on this. Discuss this among yourselves.
 

cncmin

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Oh dear god. Can there be even one day without the POTUS doing something corrupt and/or stupid?
 

howeda7

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How will the Right spin this one?
 

ROCK

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I would welcome the comments from other combat veterans especially those with actual asymmetric war experience. Trump did the correct thing again. Most of you will never qualify to graduate from your checker board. Yes, DeanO got you again!
 

justthefacts

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I would welcome the comments from other combat veterans especially those with actual asymmetric war experience. Trump did the correct thing again. Most of you will never qualify to graduate from your checker board. Yes, DeanO got you again!
Who do you think it was who had punished these guys originally? It was the military justice system
 

Cruze

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The Trumpster overruling the disciplinary decisions of field commanders, the general staff, and the Secretary's of the Army, Navy, and Air Force is exactly what is needed to maintain good order and discipline among the troops. Who can doubt it?

“Discipline is the soul of an army.—It makes small numbers formidable; procures success to the weak, and esteem to all.” So wrote Lieutenant Colonel George Washington in a 1757 letter to his Virginia Regiment Captains.
 

Deleted_User

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I would welcome the comments from other combat veterans especially those with actual asymmetric war experience. Trump did the correct thing again. Most of you will never qualify to graduate from your checker board. Yes, DeanO got you again!
This isn't a troll original post by me, shithead. This isn't 3 dimensional chess being orchestrated by Trump. It was a decision by Trump to interfere in courts martial, which he has the right to do, but not in this case. He has no right to interfere in the function of the board of review. None. Commanding officers are prohibited from interfering in such board actions until the board has made their recommendation. Then, and only then can the Commander, in this case, Commander in Chief make a review of the decision and then make a reduction in sentence or even set it aside. I will not deny Trump that power. But, he also had an obligation to not rule in matters of "crimes against humanity" without so much as a review board first.

FM 27-10 states, lists as a war crime, "maltreatment of a dead body". To be a war crime, it had to be systemic to a command. This was the case of the soldier involved.

The commander in chief can be charged with a crime against humanity even if not directly involved. The mens rea requirement of the breach can be summed up like this, the commander did nothing to dissuade the behavior and take measures to keep similar incidents from occurring.

I would not say that the photos taken that constituted the maltreatment of the dead body rose to an impeachable offense in itself, but that the President willfully stepped into a board hearing before the hearing took place to debrade the soldier in question makes a mens rea argument possible that he does not consider maltreatment of the dead seriously. We are a signatory state in the Geneva Convention. And, since we do not hold the International Court jurisdictional, the Navy had jurisdiction to uphold the Geneva protocols. Trump, as Commander in Chief, also must hold to standard those protocols. His interference with the board prior to the board meeting flies directly in the face of upholding those standards of the Law of Armed Conflict, which then violates the prosecution standards of the Convention. Now, that is a misdemeanor offense that is impeachable.

And, to me, a retired Army Officer, instructor, etc, I know why this has zero to do with asymmetrical warfare.
 

Bad Gopher

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To add insult to injury, this convicted war criminal publicly attacked his chain of command in the wake of the firing. I guess insubordination is the icing on the cake of war crimes. This ain't someone who any of his mates will want to have anything to do with. He's chosen the path of right-wing celebrity over honorable soldier, much like so many of his fellow right-wingers have chosen a crime cult over honorable service to their country.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Our ignorant President disregarded 100 years of military law to pardon 3 Navy seals for war crimes they commited. To me, this is a continuation of the war crime. We are signatories to treaties which prohibit leaders of nations from pardoning those types of crime. Let me just say, Trump's pardons may be constitutional, but, they are illegal under international law. He committed another "high crime". Some lawyers may disagree with me. But, this is how it has been taught in Command and General Staff School and lesser leadership courses. Some of those courses were taught by me. The President should be in prison. End of story. I won't engage in a pointless debate on this. Discuss this among yourselves.
You really have no idea what you are talking about, but what’s new.

They were not “3 Navy Seals”. And that demonstrates your depth of knowledge about these cases, or rather, lack there of. But why get any facts when you can just pre-judge it before knowing a thing. And all your ignoramus pals chime in with equally pre-judged conclusions.

Only one was a Navy Seal. The other two were Army. There are a lot of details to these stories, but trying to judge them without all of the facts is unfair. I do know that there are questions about the conduct of the prosecuting attorney in the Navy Seal’s case for illegally monitoring the Seal’s private communications, for which the Judge admonished him and penalized the prosecution.
 

bga1

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This isn't a troll original post by me, shithead.
I suggest you start yet another user moniker for yourself Deano (you would still be under 10 accounts wouldn't you?). You should call it Dean S- Non Troll account. That account, if used honestly, would give you a chance to post a once or twice a year, in a non-troll manner. Just an idea for you as a way for people to sort out what you are attempting to accomplish. Otherwise, the assumption that you are trolling is so overwhelmingly true that one just has to go with it.
You would just have to remember not to troll yourself.
 

ROCK

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This isn't a troll original post by me, shithead. This isn't 3 dimensional chess being orchestrated by Trump. It was a decision by Trump to interfere in courts martial, which he has the right to do, but not in this case. He has no right to interfere in the function of the board of review. None. Commanding officers are prohibited from interfering in such board actions until the board has made their recommendation. Then, and only then can the Commander, in this case, Commander in Chief make a review of the decision and then make a reduction in sentence or even set it aside. I will not deny Trump that power. But, he also had an obligation to not rule in matters of "crimes against humanity" without so much as a review board first.

FM 27-10 states, lists as a war crime, "maltreatment of a dead body". To be a war crime, it had to be systemic to a command. This was the case of the soldier involved.

The commander in chief can be charged with a crime against humanity even if not directly involved. The mens rea requirement of the breach can be summed up like this, the commander did nothing to dissuade the behavior and take measures to keep similar incidents from occurring.

I would not say that the photos taken that constituted the maltreatment of the dead body rose to an impeachable offense in itself, but that the President willfully stepped into a board hearing before the hearing took place to debrade the soldier in question makes a mens rea argument possible that he does not consider maltreatment of the dead seriously. We are a signatory state in the Geneva Convention. And, since we do not hold the International Court jurisdictional, the Navy had jurisdiction to uphold the Geneva protocols. Trump, as Commander in Chief, also must hold to standard those protocols. His interference with the board prior to the board meeting flies directly in the face of upholding those standards of the Law of Armed Conflict, which then violates the prosecution standards of the Convention. Now, that is a misdemeanor offense that is impeachable.

And, to me, a retired Army Officer, instructor, etc, I know why this has zero to do with asymmetrical warfare.
LOL! You going to hook a bunch of weiny libtards with this one!
 

ROCK

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You really have no idea what you are talking about, but what’s new.

They were not “3 Navy Seals”. And that demonstrates your depth of knowledge about these cases, or rather, lack there of. But why get any facts when you can just pre-judge it before knowing a thing. And all your ignoramusKiller, he is trolling for libtards, not you. pals chime in with equally pre-judged conclusions.

Only one was a Navy Seal. The other two were Army. There are a lot of details to these stories, but trying to judge them without all of the facts is unfair. I do know that there are questions about the conduct of the prosecuting attorney in the Navy Seal’s case for illegally monitoring the Seal’s private communications, for which the Judge admonished him and penalized the prosecution.
 

ROCK

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DeanO is trolling for ignoramus libtards. Not you.
 

ROCK

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Who do you think it was who had punished these guys originally? It was the military justice system
You have no clue what happened. What Spencer did to get fired is either unknown to you (it is) or you enjoy repeatedly sharing intentional lies (you do). It was a righteous firing with nothing to do with anything mentioned in this thread. You aren't even a mediocre checkers player.
 

ROCK

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Sounds a lot like "diehard".
My phone wouldn't accept my password when the board updated so I opened a new account on my phone. When I post from my computer I am still diehard. Guess is pretty easy to have multiple accounts.
 

kellyleeks

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I’d be curious to get diehard’s thoughts in this.
 

saintpaulguy

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On a serious note, I can’t understand rooting for interference with the military taking care of their own. It’s what separates the good guys from the bad guys. If people think the President will bail their ass out, why follow the chain of command. Honestly, if this were Obama or Clinton the right wing universe would have an aneurysm.
 

saintpaulguy

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It isn’t pro military to root against the military.
 
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