Scott Dochterman breaks down why colleges MUST play football this year

MplsGopher

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Sweden is over covid, just like the US was over covid a couple weeks ago.
 

MplsGopher

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If this is true it means no vaccine will ever work
You’d need a new vaccine every year
Not correct on multiple fronts.

1) you can get booster shots periodically, and that doesn’t require a whole new vaccine, just another shot

2) if the virus was eradicated by massive worldwide vaccine use, then there wouldn’t even necessarily be a reason to continue getting the boosters
 

Some guy

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Not correct on multiple fronts.

1) you can get booster shots periodically, and that doesn’t require a whole new vaccine, just another shot

2) if the virus was eradicated by massive worldwide vaccine use, then there wouldn’t even necessarily be a reason to continue getting the boosters
For sure.

we definitely don’t need flu boosters every year



so are we going to shutdown until it is pretty much eradicated worldwide? Because that will take years
 

MplsGopher

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For sure.

we definitely don’t need flu boosters every year



so are we going to shutdown until it is pretty much eradicated worldwide? Because that will take years
The flu mutates so fast that the immunity we had last year isn’t the same virus anymore. Covid isn’t mutating that fast.

If the country’s population is vaccinated, and gets boosters as needed, then the country can be open in the meantime, until the virus is wiped off the face of the earth.
 

Donovan

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THis country would not exist if it the timid risk adverse extremism promoted by Plato had been prevalent during any crisis in the last 250 years. The old "if just one life is saved" tyranny once again
Agree. This extreme "safety uber alles" mindset that is so dominant in America today is actually unhealthy. It's stage one thinking and not understanding its consequences. If these folks are consistent with this thinking, they should be lobbying their government representatives to limit auto speeds to 30 mph.
 

MplsGopher

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Absurd comparisons to auto accidents, is basically a religion at this point.

It’s been proven false, over and over again.

But those who want to believe what they want to believe, and dismiss anything to the contrary, are going to chant it like hooded monks at midnight prayers.
 

Roland Brooks

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0.008 death rate in Minnesota for people under 70 and not long care health facilities or assisted living. That number seems good to me.

The most important thing is that we let the elderly down and need to make sure that does not happen again.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Assuming there is a workable vaccine developed in the next year or so, the big issue is going to be production and distribution.

that means getting doses delivered to hospitals, clinics etc and then scheduling people to receive shots.
that is one big logistical challenge.

Imagine a vaccine is developed, and you have to wait weeks or longer to get your shot. How bleepin' crazy will people get? and then the inevitable stories about how rich and famous people or athletes got to go to the head of the line.

prediction - if that happens, you will see people duking it out over spots in line and so forth. it will be humanity at its finest.
 

TurfGopher

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Assuming there is a workable vaccine developed in the next year or so, the big issue is going to be production and distribution.

that means getting doses delivered to hospitals, clinics etc and then scheduling people to receive shots.
that is one big logistical challenge.

Imagine a vaccine is developed, and you have to wait weeks or longer to get your shot. How bleepin' crazy will people get? and then the inevitable stories about how rich and famous people or athletes got to go to the head of the line.

prediction - if that happens, you will see people duking it out over spots in line and so forth. it will be humanity at its finest.
Prediction- Vaccine will debut on Black friday 2021 at Walmart/Target stores for $200 a pop. Includes a commemorative t-shirt.
 

Pompous Elitist

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The flu mutates so fast that the immunity we had last year isn’t the same virus anymore. Covid isn’t mutating that fast.

If the country’s population is vaccinated, and gets boosters as needed, then the country can be open in the meantime, until the virus is wiped off the face of the earth.
Some mutations are more important than others. Is it more accurate to say if the spike protein mutates enough that can cause affinity problems?

Absurd comparisons to auto accidents, is basically a religion at this point.

It’s been proven false, over and over again.

But those who want to believe what they want to believe, and dismiss anything to the contrary, are going to chant it like hooded monks at midnight prayers.
It’s accurate for the 0-24 year old age group. The concern is whether higher risk, mainly old people can avoid contagion. It seems likely to approach (at least short term) herd immunity in the dumbasscus americanus sub species group by late fall which should help slow overall transmission to the rest of the country.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Not sure if you actually read the NY Times article you were responding to, but context to those death statistics you provided is essential. As the article states:

the coronavirus is blamed for 5,420 deaths in Sweden, according to the World Health Organization. That might not sound especially horrendous compared with the more than 129,000 Americans who have died. But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.

And, the article continues, Sweden essentially suffered that high per capita death rate, but received virtually none of the economic benefits in return, when compared to other Scandinavian countries that went into early lockdown.
Yes I did, but comparing Sweden to the entire US isn't fair either. Sweden still has a lower deaths per 1M than Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, DC, Louisiana, Michigan, Illinois, and Maryland.

Almost all of the northern US states have followed the same curve as Europe and Sweden, likely thanks to weather. IMO the worst is in the past for all of these states.

Deciding if Sweden was successful, including economically, will be in the long term. Coronaviruses are cold viruses and have been around forever. This is a new one, which is why it's deadly for people with weak immune systems. For nearly everyone else, it's not.

IMO this is never going away. It will continue to circulate just like any other coronavirus. A coronavirus vaccine has never been developed for humans, if one is, it will be similar to the flu shot. It won't eradicate the disease, and we're still going to have to deal with it. If this ends up being the case, Sweden took the right approach.
 

Some guy

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The flu mutates so fast that the immunity we had last year isn’t the same virus anymore. Covid isn’t mutating that fast.

If the country’s population is vaccinated, and gets boosters as needed, then the country can be open in the meantime, until the virus is wiped off the face of the earth.
For sure.
Getting to that point with Covid is likely years away. Not months
 

Some guy

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Yes I did, but comparing Sweden to the entire US isn't fair either. Sweden still has a lower deaths per 1M than Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, DC, Louisiana, Michigan, Illinois, and Maryland.

Almost all of the northern US states have followed the same curve as Europe and Sweden, likely thanks to weather. IMO the worst is in the past for all of these states.

Deciding if Sweden was successful, including economically, will be in the long term. Coronaviruses are cold viruses and have been around forever. This is a new one, which is why it's deadly for people with weak immune systems. For nearly everyone else, it's not.

IMO this is never going away. It will continue to circulate just like any other coronavirus. A coronavirus vaccine has never been developed for humans, if one is, it will be similar to the flu shot. It won't eradicate the disease, and we're still going to have to deal with it. If this ends up being the case, Sweden took the right approach.
Paragraphs 3 and 4 are possibilities and won’t be able to be judged until 2022 or 2023 at the earliest. But in my estimation are as likely or more likely than a vaccine widely administered to 70% of the population by spring semester.


The cat is out of the bag.
It’s all about hospital capacity. Shut down as much as you need to to keep the hospitals functional.
 

MplsGopher

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Yes I did, but comparing Sweden to the entire US isn't fair either. Sweden still has a lower deaths per 1M than Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, DC, Louisiana, Michigan, Illinois, and Maryland.

Almost all of the northern US states have followed the same curve as Europe and Sweden, likely thanks to weather. IMO the worst is in the past for all of these states.

Deciding if Sweden was successful, including economically, will be in the long term. Coronaviruses are cold viruses and have been around forever. This is a new one, which is why it's deadly for people with weak immune systems. For nearly everyone else, it's not.

IMO this is never going away. It will continue to circulate just like any other coronavirus. A coronavirus vaccine has never been developed for humans, if one is, it will be similar to the flu shot. It won't eradicate the disease, and we're still going to have to deal with it. If this ends up being the case, Sweden took the right approach.
Nope, it’s going to be that a too aggressive of immune response in some people is what causes their death and other debilitating side effects.
 

Some guy

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I’ll listen to experts. Your wild guess is noted. Mine isn’t any better of a wild guess.
Correct.
Listen to experts for sure.
There are no experts who think a vaccine will be widely administered to the population by Feb 1 2021.

Find one

Your wild guess isn’t any worse or better than mine. Glad we agree
 

MplsGopher

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Correct.
Listen to experts for sure.
There are no experts who think a vaccine will be widely administered to the population by Feb 1 2021.

Find one

Your wild guess isn’t any worse or better than mine. Glad we agree
“Widely” administered, and why the arbitrary date Feb 1?

Anything I say here will be backed up, or will be a wild guess. That has always been the case, for me. I assume the same for you.
 

Donovan

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Yes I did, but comparing Sweden to the entire US isn't fair either. Sweden still has a lower deaths per 1M than Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, DC, Louisiana, Michigan, Illinois, and Maryland.

Almost all of the northern US states have followed the same curve as Europe and Sweden, likely thanks to weather. IMO the worst is in the past for all of these states.

Deciding if Sweden was successful, including economically, will be in the long term. Coronaviruses are cold viruses and have been around forever. This is a new one, which is why it's deadly for people with weak immune systems. For nearly everyone else, it's not.

IMO this is never going away. It will continue to circulate just like any other coronavirus. A coronavirus vaccine has never been developed for humans, if one is, it will be similar to the flu shot. It won't eradicate the disease, and we're still going to have to deal with it. If this ends up being the case, Sweden took the right approach.
I think Sweden made the right move for them. Here are the latest numbers.
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43F75B1C-914B-474A-82DB-DAB500F80918.jpeg
 

MplsGopher

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"The right move for them", resulting in more deaths, and negligible, if any, economic savings.
 

PoockItInfor6

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"The right move for them", resulting in more deaths, and negligible, if any, economic savings.

"The right move for them", resulting in more deaths, and negligible, if any, economic savings.
It’s usually better to wait until the end of the game to call a winner than halftime. People act like social distancing somehow means less people ultimately get infected, but in reality I am quite sure it flattens the curve... which only saves lives to the extent your medical systems would’ve been overrun or to the extent you develop treatment/vaccines before the the end. This is one of the main points that I feel gets lost, because the curve is very likely to run its course before we get a vaccine.
 

MplsGopher

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It’s usually better to wait until the end of the game to call a winner than halftime. People act like social distancing somehow means less people ultimately get infected, but in reality I am quite sure it flattens the curve... which only saves lives to the extent your medical systems would’ve been overrun or to the extent you develop treatment/vaccines before the the end. This is one of the main points that I feel gets lost, because the curve is very likely to run its course before we get a vaccine.
Your last sentence is the key.

I think that we’re very likely saving hundreds of thousands of lives via the flattening, if the current vaccines in phase 3 trials prove out.

As you say, we don’t know yet.
 

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Didn't bother reading all of the responses.

The basically stopped playing college football during WWII. I think it made it's way back.
 

MplsGopher

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Deaths are elevated but so far aren’t spiking like in April.

Cases exploded, still are, so everyone fears a similar explosion in deaths. Let us hope it never comes to be.
 

Some guy

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Deaths are elevated but so far aren’t spiking like in April.

Cases exploded, still are, so everyone fears a similar explosion in deaths. Let us hope it never comes to be.
Comparing the deaths to the number of cases in April is a ridiculous exercise because we have no idea how many cases there actually were
 

MplsGopher

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Comparing the deaths to the number of cases in April is a ridiculous exercise because we have no idea how many cases there actually were
Regardless how many cases there are, the number of deaths is transparent. You're dead or you're not.

If/when the number of deaths continues to rise up, that is what will drive the hard decisions for the cancellation of in-person school and fall sports.





My wild guess is: if daily deaths 7-day average holds around 1k, while that is certainly elevated from the previous downward trend, that might not be enough to provoke cancellations. But if it starts trending upward towards 2k, I think at that point people will start pulling plugs.
 
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