RIP Internal Combustion Engine - General Motors to go all-electric by 2035 and carbon-neutral by 2040

MplsGopher

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I also wonder about cold weather in the northern states and how the battery can decrease in these temps. Hybrid technology is really what needs to be adopted to all cars being produced now. Yes it still requires gas, but you can get amazing miles per gallon even on larger cars and trucks. An all electric car is great and probably works for most people, but it will not be a one size fits all solution to car production.
You can't let the battery get cold. It will ruin its life. (or too hot, for that matter)

I'm pretty sure that all these battery packs in the cars have "smart temperature monitoring" and have electric warmer coils/elements built in, so that it will use some of the battery's energy to keep itself warm.

That does obviously have the effect of reducing the amount of charge you can get out of it, if it's using some of the energy to keep itself warm.


Solid point on the hybrids. The next SUV I buy, likely will be a hybrid rather than an all-out battery electric. But those days are coming sooner and sooner.
 

From the Parkinglot

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You can't let the battery get cold. It will ruin its life. (or too hot, for that matter)

I'm pretty sure that all these battery packs in the cars have "smart temperature monitoring" and have electric warmer coils/elements built in, so that it will use some of the battery's energy to keep itself warm.

That does obviously have the effect of reducing the amount of charge you can get out of it, if it's using some of the energy to keep itself warm.


Solid point on the hybrids. The next SUV I buy, likely will be a hybrid rather than an all-out battery electric. But those days are coming sooner and sooner.
Toyota and Lexus both make some great hybrids.
 

MennoSota

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The Earth isn't imploding in 5, 10, or 15 years from now.

We already have fusion: the sun. Covering something like 10-20% (or so) of our uninhabited desert in solar would provide enough power output to cover the needs of the country. Just a matter of constructing efficient, cost-effective storage.
No environmentalist would let the desert floor be covered in solar panels. The destruction of habitat would be profundly detrimental.

Small fusion generators, located in various places, would be optimal...if the science can be figured out and engineered.

I agree, the planet is not in danger of catastrophic failure anytime soon (as far as science can tell). Better go inform Greta, AOC and Ilhan, however, cause the looney left is busy fear mongering.
 

MplsGopher

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No environmentalist would let the desert floor be covered in solar panels. The destruction of habitat would be profundly detrimental.
Doubt it. I'm talking like death valley. Don't think there's much there.

Failing that ... how about giant floating platforms out in the ocean? Maybe one day.

Small fusion generators, located in various places, would be optimal...if the science can be figured out and engineered.
Lots of pipe dreams would be optimal, if they could be done.
 

MennoSota

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Doubt it. I'm talking like death valley. Don't think there's much there.

Failing that ... how about giant floating platforms out in the ocean? Maybe one day.


Lots of pipe dreams would be optimal, if they could be done.
Death Valley has an oasis with a golf course. Underground is a massive aquifer. Again, environmentalists will go ballistic. Also, such a project would barely make a dent in our energy output.
 

MplsGopher

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Again, environmentalists will go ballistic.
I doubt it, but maybe. Drive from California to Vegas sometime. You will see plenty of solar farms, including a very nifty one that focuses all its mirrors in a circle around a tower. You can literally see the concentrated beams of light flowing up to it, very cool.

Also, such a project would barely make a dent in our energy output.
Energy is not the same as power. Hence why I said power, and why I was talking about storage.
 

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Just saw the Joe Rogan interview of Elon Musk from a few days ago. If you have some time on your hands and can last through Elon's many thoughtful pauses (he is a genius after all), it's a great watch.

I classify myself as climate-concerned but skeptical of the whole climate change religion narrative. However, Elon brought up some good points. He acknowledges that CO2 actually helps plant life, that the earth has been warming since the last ice age, and that we haven't seen major disruption to this point (any change has been slow and linear); but he's worried about the non-linear black swan type event that could occur suddenly due to the spike in CO2 levels. In other words, we don't know if major disaster could occur if some sort of threshold is passed. An example given was the thawing of the Russian tundra.

I realize that Elon is biased because his business relies on the conversion to electric, but it still gave something to think about.

(Just came to this thread, so hopefully this isn't a repeat point)
 

MplsGopher

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the earth has been warming since the last ice age, and that we haven't seen major disruption to this point (any change has been slow and linear); but he's worried about the non-linear black swan type event that could occur suddenly due to the spike in CO2 levels.
Bolded: it has? https://xkcd.com/1732/
 

FormerFatOL

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I'm repeating what my ears heard and my brain recalls. I don't think Elon was referring specifically to temperature but overall CO2 impact on our environment. He did mention the "wall" on the graph, like yours shows, when looking at CO2 levels and maybe temperatures and was worried how that "wall" might impact us in the future.
 

MennoSota

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I doubt it, but maybe. Drive from California to Vegas sometime. You will see plenty of solar farms, including a very nifty one that focuses all its mirrors in a circle around a tower. You can literally see the concentrated beams of light flowing up to it, very cool.


Energy is not the same as power. Hence why I said power, and why I was talking about storage.
I don't doubt there are private locations in the desert where there are solar farms. These exist in Minnesota. You simply cannot generate enough power from them to supply our nation, let alone California.
Second, you can only receive and store this power for a limited time per day. It's not continuous. The limitations are significant.
 

MplsGopher

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You simply cannot generate enough power from them to supply our nation, let alone California.
This is actually not true. You can. Solar is capable of providing that much power, on its own.

Second, you can only receive and store this power for a limited time per day. It's not continuous. The limitations are significant.
You can only receive it when the sun is shining, of course. The power over time (energy) has to be stored. There are ways people are thinking about doing this, but until the demand and cost-effectiveness of these ways brings them about, they aren't reality yet.
 

MennoSota

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This is actually not true. You can. Solar is capable of providing that much power, on its own.


You can only receive it when the sun is shining, of course. The power over time (energy) has to be stored. There are ways people are thinking about doing this, but until the demand and cost-effectiveness of these ways brings them about, they aren't reality yet.
There are ways people are thinking about fusion reactors as well. If fusion is ever solved, clean energy will be virtually limitless with no footprint on the environment. It will make solar panels and wind turbines obsolete.
 

Wally

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There are ways people are thinking about fusion reactors as well. If fusion is ever solved, clean energy will be virtually limitless with no footprint on the environment. It will make solar panels and wind turbines obsolete.
Lets hope, but I don't believe they have ever run a fusion reactor such that it generated more power than the isolation consumed.

Worthy of investment and research to be certain. But its not at a stage where we can even assume it will generate a meaningful amount of electricity..
 

MennoSota

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Lets hope, but I don't believe they have ever run a fusion reactor such that it generated more power than the isolation consumed.

Worthy of investment and research to be certain. But its not at a stage where we can even assume it will generate a meaningful amount of electricity..
True, yet there is no other green energy source that can provide the electrical needs humans crave.
Perhaps tapping into ocean currents and wave motion would create another green source, but ultimately we are dependent on carbon as our energy source.
 

GoodasGold

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True, yet there is no other green energy source that can provide the electrical needs humans crave.
Perhaps tapping into ocean currents and wave motion would create another green source, but ultimately we are dependent on carbon as our energy source.
My vehicles run on neurons. 🤫
 

MplsGopher

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There are ways people are thinking about fusion reactors as well. If fusion is ever solved, clean energy will be virtually limitless with no footprint on the environment. It will make solar panels and wind turbines obsolete.
Perhaps it will be a piece of the puzzle. I think ultimately the problem is that it's going to be incredibly expensive to build and maintain, that only governments are going to be able to take on the cost.

Like I mentioned before: we already have fusion, the sun.


Just purely out of curiosity: why do you hate solar panels? What is it about them specifically, that you loathe? They work just fine.
 

MennoSota

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My vehicles run on neurons. 🤫
Which proves my point. All the universe does is exchange various particles as it determines based on the laws nature has created. All life is meaningless for an atheist. You have made the point for me.
 

MennoSota

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Perhaps it will be a piece of the puzzle. I think ultimately the problem is that it's going to be incredibly expensive to build and maintain, that only governments are going to be able to take on the cost.

Like I mentioned before: we already have fusion, the sun.


Just purely out of curiosity: why do you hate solar panels? What is it about them specifically, that you loathe? They work just fine.
I don't hate solar panels.
They are inefficient in Minnesota and too expensive. The cost-benefit doesn't work out.
If the costs were lowered, I would consider geo-thermal heating and cooling in connection with solar and wind. If one could harness all three on every building in America one could reduce the need to purchase electricity from a company. However, the cost-benefit is not such that this is feasible.
 

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Which proves my point. All the universe does is exchange various particles as it determines based on the laws nature has created. All life is meaningless for an atheist. You have made the point for me.
I think you have a glitch in your matrix.

Ayahuasca???
 

MplsGopher

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They are inefficient in Minnesota and too expensive. The cost-benefit doesn't work out.
Isn't that for the market to decide?

What is "too expensive", and why? If solar can contribute thousands of GWh of energy over the course of the summer, and that is stored for later use, I see nothing wrong with that.
 

MennoSota

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Isn't that for the market to decide?

What is "too expensive", and why? If solar can contribute thousands of GWh of energy over the course of the summer, and that is stored for later use, I see nothing wrong with that.
Sure. Remove the government subsidies and see how the market responds.
 

GoodasGold

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Which proves my point. All the universe does is exchange various particles as it determines based on the laws nature has created. All life is meaningless for an atheist. You have made the point for me.
I’ll have to take your word for it because as you are like to say, your explanation is meaningless. I’m beginning to see u as a Tiny, Tiny elementary particle. A quark. 🎃
 

MennoSota

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What kind of subsidies are we talking here?

More or less than subsidies for commodity crops?
I am all for removing subsidies on farming. Let the market dictate. For instance, we know that it's cheaper and takes less energy to create ethanol from algae rather than corn. Let a new industry rise up if ethanol is to be a viable product. We have farmers growing crops based on subsidized demand not market demand.
 

MennoSota

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I’ll have to take your word for it because as you are like to say, your explanation is meaningless. I’m beginning to see u as a Tiny, Tiny elementary particle. A quark. 🎃
Your feelings are so fickle GaG. Your comment is so meaningless, but it makes you feel better so run with it if you must.
 

howeda7

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I’ll have to take your word for it because as you are like to say, your explanation is meaningless. I’m beginning to see u as a Tiny, Tiny elementary particle. A quark. 🎃
Poor Tiny. From obsession with Commies to obsessions with Atheists. How does he sleep at night?
 
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