Reopen Schools?

Livingat45north

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
3,103
Reaction score
996
Points
113
Can't even get 94% to have a similar opinion on the color of the sky.

So if this decision is left to the Department of Education, how tied in are they with the teachers unions?
I assume it's essentially the same thing, or am I wrong?
I should have mentioned it in my first post, but I wouldn't put a whole lot of credence into the poll numbers (which is why I put "poll" in quotes). I'm pretty sure this was just an on-line survey, which means it could be wide open to manipulation and it's a skewed demographic. It was the only "poll" I found on the issue. So, not a good poll, but I guess better than nothing...
 

Go4Broke

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
160
Points
63
My wife is a teacher in the Twin Cities and she informs me that many of the teachers she knows are worried about going back to teaching in the classroom in September.


California teachers fight back against pressure to reopen schools

California Gov. Gavin Newsom insists schools need to make their best attempt to open this fall, warning of the educational and social-emotional impacts of keeping kids out of the classroom.

He’s ordered a mountain of masks and other protective gear for schools to encourage safety amid a rash of new coronavirus outbreaks that have forced him to reinstate stay-at-home orders and shutter bars and restaurants that had barely reopened.

But the California Teachers Association, one of the largest and most powerful unions in the country, says it’s still worried. The union is insisting on prolonging distance learning instead of forcing its army of more than 300,000 educators back into schools.

“We hope we don’t have to go there, but if it comes to it, we do retain the right to refuse to work under unsafe conditions,” said David Fisher, president of the Sacramento City Teachers Association. “The virus is raging, and the circumstances that we were thinking we might be dealing with in September only a few weeks ago seem to be changing by the day. It just is looking increasingly unlikely that we will be able to teach in person at any level when schools first open.”


https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/07/11/california-teachers-fight-back-against-sacrificial-pressure-to-reopen-schools-1299558
 
Last edited:

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
7,657
Reaction score
1,007
Points
113
My wife is a teacher in the Twin Cities and she informs me that many of the teachers she knows are worried about going back to teaching in the classroom in September.


California teachers fight back against pressure to reopen schools

California Gov. Gavin Newsom insists schools need to make their best attempt to open this fall, warning of the educational and social-emotional impacts of keeping kids out of the classroom.

He’s ordered a mountain of masks and other protective gear for schools to encourage safety amid a rash of new coronavirus outbreaks that have forced him to reinstate stay-at-home orders and shutter bars and restaurants that had barely reopened.

But the California Teachers Association, one of the largest and most powerful unions in the country, says it’s still worried. The union is insisting on prolonging distance learning instead of forcing its army of more than 300,000 educators back into schools.

“We hope we don’t have to go there, but if it comes to it, we do retain the right to refuse to work under unsafe conditions,” said David Fisher, president of the Sacramento City Teachers Association. “The virus is raging, and the circumstances that we were thinking we might be dealing with in September only a few weeks ago seem to be changing by the day. It just is looking increasingly unlikely that we will be able to teach in person at any level when schools first open.”


https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/07/11/california-teachers-fight-back-against-sacrificial-pressure-to-reopen-schools-1299558
They must not be believers in data and Science then. We do need more teachers who are willing to teach that, so maybe they are not in the right career.
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
9,672
Reaction score
1,282
Points
113
I deal with a lot of teachers in my job. I think I can state that every teacher I know wants students back in class this fall - IF it can be done safety.

and that's the rub - who decides what is safe and how to provide that safe environment.

Yes, the odds of kids becoming seriously ill is very low. But kids are natural germ spreaders. walk into any elementary classroom during the winter and you'll find kids sniffling, sneezing, coughing, etc - and those are the ones that Mom said were well enough to go to school.

the issue is not kids getting covid - it's kids passing covid to teachers, custodians, staff, para-professionals etc - many of whom may be older or with pre-existing conditions.

At smaller schools especially, if a handful of teachers test positive, they may not have enough substitute teachers to fill in. likewise with bus drivers - 3 or 4 drivers call in sick, and they're scrambling to find someone with a bus license to get the kids home.

those are the types of things that schools have to consider.

the point is - you have to have a plan for schools to operate if kids are back in class.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
45,292
Reaction score
3,537
Points
113
Is there any discussion being given to having outdoor classes at least as long as possible? I know it's a short window in MN, but they would have 4-6 weeks at least.
 

Go4Broke

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
160
Points
63
L.A. Public Schools will not reopen campuses for start of school year amid coronavirus spike

Los Angeles campuses will not reopen for classes on Aug. 18, and the nation’s second-largest school system will continue with online learning until further notice, because of the worsening coronavirus surge, Supt. Austin Beutner announced Monday.

The difficult decision became unavoidable in recent weeks, Beutner said, as coronavirus cases have skyrocketed in Los Angeles County, and the district cannot come close to protecting the health and safety of some half a million K-12 students and about 75,000 employees.

“Let me be crystal clear,” Beutner said in an interview with The Times. “We all know the best place for students to learn is in a school setting.” But, he said, “We’re going in the wrong direction. And as much as we want to be back at schools and have students back at schools — can’t do it until it’s safe and appropriate.”

https://www.latimes.com/california/...will-not-reopen-campuses-start-of-school-year
 

Livingat45north

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
3,103
Reaction score
996
Points
113
I deal with a lot of teachers in my job. I think I can state that every teacher I know wants students back in class this fall
I deal with a lot of teachers every day. By far, they do not want to go back on campus. Parents probalby do want schools to reopen (that "poll" from the Star Tribune indicated that at least), but teachers are very concerned. How do you keep someone like a 60 year old teacher, a lot of whom at that age have some sort of existing precondition, safe in a COVID situation? This is almost the equivalent of what Walz did to our LTC facilities. If teachers are in school teaching, they can't be safe. There is no safe option. Kids are not going to wear masks properly, and they'll touch every surface. A teacher can't work behind a Plexiglas screen (like a cashier can). The only safe way for a teacher to teach is remotely. Most K12 schools are implementing a hybrid (e.g., half the school on campus - M, W or T, R and every other Friday) plan, which does nothing to help the teachers. I feel bad for them. I think you'll see a lot of early retirements kicking in.
 

cjbfbp

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
6,449
Reaction score
1,084
Points
113
I deal with a lot of teachers every day. By far, they do not want to go back on campus. Parents probalby do want schools to reopen (that "poll" from the Star Tribune indicated that at least), but teachers are very concerned. How do you keep someone like a 60 year old teacher, a lot of whom at that age have some sort of existing precondition, safe in a COVID situation? This is almost the equivalent of what Walz did to our LTC facilities. If teachers are in school teaching, they can't be safe. There is no safe option. Kids are not going to wear masks properly, and they'll touch every surface. A teacher can't work behind a Plexiglas screen (like a cashier can). The only safe way for a teacher to teach is remotely. Most K12 schools are implementing a hybrid (e.g., half the school on campus - M, W or T, R and every other Friday) plan, which does nothing to help the teachers. I feel bad for them. I think you'll see a lot of early retirements kicking in.
Who are you and what have you done with Livingat45north?
 

Nokomis

Nothing To Say
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
4,759
Reaction score
411
Points
83
I agree with others that have said this puts a lot of extra pressure on teachers. One option I've heard is Fridays would be prep days. So two days in school, two days distance learning, and one day of prep. The students would also use Friday as a homework/independent learning day with no new instruction.
 

justthefacts

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
11,007
Reaction score
1,621
Points
113
They must not be believers in data and Science then. We do need more teachers who are willing to teach that, so maybe they are not in the right career.

You can argue that reopening schools makes sense, but you cannot argue in good faith that teacher have absolutely no reason to be concerned.
 
Last edited:

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
7,657
Reaction score
1,007
Points
113

You can argue that reopening schools makes sense, but you cannot argue in good faith that teacher have absolutely no reason to be concerned.
Yes you can if they are under 60. Especially if they are white.

People don't have to teach, and people don't have to send their kids to school. That's their choice, not the governments.
 

Livingat45north

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
3,103
Reaction score
996
Points
113
Here's the conditions the LA teacher's union has for returning back to work from the COVID crisis:
  • Privately operated publicly funded charter schools are shut down,
  • Police are defunded,
  • Medicare-for-All government-run health care is passed
  • A statewide wealth tax is implemented,
  • Housing for homeless is fully funded,
  • Additional financial support for undocumented students and families.
 

Panthadad2

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
762
Points
113

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
9,672
Reaction score
1,282
Points
113
Watched my local school board meeting last night on Zoom.

Superintendent spent about 20 minutes going through all the options for school this fall.

Bussing will be a big issue if they have to social distance on busses - only able to put 15-20 kids on a bus instead of 50+. one proposal is that all kids who live within one mile of school would have to walk (or get a ride from parents).

And school lunch - have to social distance in the lunch line; work out procedures for paying for food and serving it, etc. and do you let the kids sit together or social distance them?

this is stuff that schools have to have plans for under the state guidelines.

FWIW - the Supt said his goal is to have all the kids in school this fall. he thinks it's possible even with social distancing by using every space in the building - including both gyms - to hold class. the district might have to lease space off-campus for a couple of grade levels and hire more para-professionals. the supt estimated additional cost of roughly $450-thousand to pull it off.

the amount of planning that is going into this fall is bonkers.
 

KillerGopherFan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
16,874
Reaction score
1,816
Points
113
I deal with a lot of teachers every day. By far, they do not want to go back on campus. Parents probalby do want schools to reopen (that "poll" from the Star Tribune indicated that at least), but teachers are very concerned. How do you keep someone like a 60 year old teacher, a lot of whom at that age have some sort of existing precondition, safe in a COVID situation? This is almost the equivalent of what Walz did to our LTC facilities. If teachers are in school teaching, they can't be safe. There is no safe option. Kids are not going to wear masks properly, and they'll touch every surface. A teacher can't work behind a Plexiglas screen (like a cashier can). The only safe way for a teacher to teach is remotely. Most K12 schools are implementing a hybrid (e.g., half the school on campus - M, W or T, R and every other Friday) plan, which does nothing to help the teachers. I feel bad for them. I think you'll see a lot of early retirements kicking in.
Dr Scott Atlas rattled off the numbers in an interview last night. Over 50% of the teachers are under age 35. Over 90% are under 60. You make exceptions for teaches that are in high risk groups to take a leave or teach on-line from a remote location, and you provide all the PPE that a teacher would need.

Colleges are making every effort to teach on-campus. Why? B/c they have competition and could lose their jobs if they don’t, but also b/c many want to teach on campus. My wife teaches one graduate level class at a major university. She will be 60 this fall. She will be provided some protective gear, like a face shield and students will be socially distanced (At least during class). The only concern that she has expressed is about how effectively she’ll be able to teach. She teaches b/c she enjoys it.

Public schools are being dictated by the teacher‘s unions. They are looking for reasons not to teach for political and selfish reasons. If their job weren’t guaranteed, they’d have a different attitude. If grocery store employees have to work, so can teachers. They’re essential.
 

saintpaulguy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
5,921
Reaction score
1,116
Points
113
Was Scott Atlas the guy who shrugged or the one who would make you man in 7 days?
 

cjbfbp

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
6,449
Reaction score
1,084
Points
113
Was Scott Atlas the guy who shrugged or the one who would make you man in 7 days?
I think the latter was Charles Atlas. I seem to remember him from the back of comic books and magazines in my youth.
 

LakerFan

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
1,601
Reaction score
220
Points
63
Wouldn't it be simpler to put all the kids (low risk of ill effect) back in the schools and put the at risk teachers (not all) on a projector into the class room? Works at the U of M. As long as you could have some TA's in class to maintain some in presence control of the classroom.
 

gopher7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2008
Messages
1,537
Reaction score
54
Points
48
and that's the rub - who decides what is safe and how to provide that safe environment.
This is a great point.

We had two relatives fly into town a few weeks ago. One is 55, the other 80. Both are healthy, neither are doing activities that would place them in a particularly enhanced risk.

We had them over to our house and ate dinner in our dining room. When they went to my in-laws (Similar family in terms of ages, health & sizes to ours), they ate on front porch, at their own table (separate from the hosts), and they weren't allowed in their house unless they first did a temperature & oxygen level check (the hosts had purchased their own o2 meter).

I feel like we are being safe by keeping our gathering small. Others feel they're being safe by doing things very differently from us. I think the varying levels of 'feeling safe' will create some difficulties with teachers and school staff when it time comes to reopen.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
22,567
Reaction score
1,287
Points
113

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
22,567
Reaction score
1,287
Points
113
- There's virtually no risk to kids getting seriously ill, or dying. Statistically, the kids are more likely to be struck by lightening than to die of Covid. The excuse that the kids could be at risk, is nonsense. There is no valid argument.

- The idea that kids will bring the virus home & infect others also does not a appear to be a valid excuse. On the contrary, multiple studies show kids do not spread Covid at all.

- In Iceland where they have tremendous contact tracing due to issues with a small population, so everyone has to check they're not marrying a relative, they did an exhaustive study. 750+ pages of data. They found not one single instance of A kid passing the virus on to anyone else. Their conclusion was that kids simply do not spread the virus.
Icelandic Study: ‘We Have Not Found a Single Instance of a Child Infecting Parents.’

- In Ireland they did a study, and could not find a single case that was passed from a child to anyone else.
Irish-focused study finds no evidence that Covid-19 was transmitted in schools before government closures

- In the Netherlands they too did a study and could not find a single case where a kid spread the virus to anyone else.
Coronavirus unlikely to be spread by children, research suggests

- In Germany, scientists are saying that not only do kids not spread the virus, but kids may actually help stop the spread.
Tests of pupils and teachers in Saxony suggest children may act as brake on infection

- In Australia, scientists found only two cases transmitted by 863 pupils & teachers combined, for an infection rate of only 0.023% & it's possible neither of the two cases were spread by the kids.
An Australian study of how coronavirus spread in 15 schools found a transmission rate of far less than 1%

- We've established it's not the kids we need to worry about. They won't get sick & they won't infect others by bringing it home.

- The only people at risk are teachers, and within teachers over 90% are low risk. They should be in school teaching. They can wear masks if it makes them feel safer. Teachers with pre-existing medical conditions can retire early, take medical leave, or teach remotely. Problem solved.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
22,567
Reaction score
1,287
Points
113
I deal with a lot of teachers in my job. I think I can state that every teacher I know wants students back in class this fall - IF it can be done safety.

and that's the rub - who decides what is safe and how to provide that safe environment.

Yes, the odds of kids becoming seriously ill is very low. But kids are natural germ spreaders. walk into any elementary classroom during the winter and you'll find kids sniffling, sneezing, coughing, etc - and those are the ones that Mom said were well enough to go to school.

the issue is not kids getting covid - it's kids passing covid to teachers, custodians, staff, para-professionals etc - many of whom may be older or with pre-existing conditions.

At smaller schools especially, if a handful of teachers test positive, they may not have enough substitute teachers to fill in. likewise with bus drivers - 3 or 4 drivers call in sick, and they're scrambling to find someone with a bus license to get the kids home.

those are the types of things that schools have to consider.

the point is - you have to have a plan for schools to operate if kids are back in class.
Please read my post above. What you're saying is correct for the flu, but with Covid. It may sound counter-intuitive, but it's the exact opposite. Not only do kids not spread the virus, they appear to stop the virus.
 
Last edited:

golfing18now

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
1,936
Reaction score
410
Points
83
Kinda feels like extortion, no?
Absolutely

I'm not sure how anybody with half a brain and a school age child can read that list of demands and feel good about our kids being nothing more than a political pawn in a sick game of trying to win an election. What an embarrassment. Does BLM = UTLA? Same organization?
 

Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
22,567
Reaction score
1,287
Points
113
I notice this debate got pretty quiet since I posted the studies done in Iceland, Ireland, Holland, Australia & Germany, showing kids don't spread the virus, at all.

Can we all agree now, that we need to open the schools up this fall?
 

tikited

Me
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
14,334
Reaction score
1,119
Points
113
Here's the conditions the LA teacher's union has for returning back to work from the COVID crisis:
  • Privately operated publicly funded charter schools are shut down,
  • Police are defunded,
  • Medicare-for-All government-run health care is passed
  • A statewide wealth tax is implemented,
  • Housing for homeless is fully funded,
  • Additional financial support for undocumented students and families.
The Onion couldn't have come up with something as ridiculous as this.
 

diehard

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
32,157
Reaction score
199
Points
63
Schools should be opened 5 days a week. There shoud be an on line option to go with it as there are many children that either have chronic illnesses or at risk of them. A large percentage of teachers are unfit and unhealthy as well. As posted here earlier 70% of female teachers are obese. Time for military fitness standards for teachers. Those unwilling to change their health should be allowed to resign without penalty. No one should be fired on the spot. There needs to be a reasonable time period for teachers to get fit. 9 months is plenty as 3 months should accomplish it. ,Maybe the teachers unions shoud pay for surgery for those lacking the self control to get healthy.
 

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
11,896
Reaction score
1,108
Points
113
Is there any discussion being given to having outdoor classes at least as long as possible? I know it's a short window in MN, but they would have 4-6 weeks at least.
That's actually not a bad idea at all (even in non-pandemic times).
 

diehard

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
32,157
Reaction score
199
Points
63
Dr Scott Atlas rattled off the numbers in an interview last night. Over 50% of the teachers are under age 35. Over 90% are under 60. You make exceptions for teaches that are in high risk groups to take a leave or teach on-line from a remote location, and you provide all the PPE that a teacher would need.

Colleges are making every effort to teach on-campus. Why? B/c they have competition and could lose their jobs if they don’t, but also b/c many want to teach on campus. My wife teaches one graduate level class at a major university. She will be 60 this fall. She will be provided some protective gear, like a face shield and students will be socially distanced (At least during class). The only concern that she has expressed is about how effectively she’ll be able to teach. She teaches b/c she enjoys it.

Public schools are being dictated by the teacher‘s unions. They are looking for reasons not to teach for political and selfish reasons. If their job weren’t guaranteed, they’d have a different attitude. If grocery store employees have to work, so can teachers. They’re essential.
Time to home school en masse. Get these students under home/parental influence where there is a much higher rate of life skill exposure.

As far as teacher age, I will once again mention that the thymus is largely gone by 60, shot by 65 and that is your virus and cancer inhibitor if you have taken care of it. Virtually no one knows how to compensate for a bad thymus.
 
Top Bottom