Recruiting Concerns

WriterGoph

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People are moving out of the city of Minneapolis. Its not a great outlook. People in my neighborhood wont even go into MPLS.
Last I checked, home prices were doing quite well in Minneapolis and there has been a ton of new residential development in areas that were previously industrial. I'm pretty sure many young professionals still consider MPLS an attractive destination. Still a ton of Fortune 500 jobs in the area.
 

alaska

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Home prices are doing well in every portion of the United States basically. I dont know if that metric is the best measure.

Im not rooting against MPLS, Im stating that the lawlessness is an issue. And is an issue with recruitment. There is no denyin that people dont believe MPLS is safe.
 

WriterGoph

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Home prices are doing well in every portion of the United States basically. I dont know if that metric is the best measure.

Im not rooting against MPLS, Im stating that the lawlessness is an issue. And is an issue with recruitment. There is no denyin that people dont believe MPLS is safe.
We have had the same rise in crime issues in Denver since March. More shootings, more theft, plenty of protests and damage in June. Yet people are still offering $100k over asking for homes here and new apartment buildings are going up in every direction.

Point being, there are always going to be periods of time where some people perceive a city to be less safe. Said people then move to suburbs or a different state. But then new and/or young people want to move into the city. Same cycle has been happening in Minneapolis, Denver, Atlanta and many other cities for 20 years. If it wasn't, there would be abandoned houses and empty buildings all over Minneapolis. If that ends up being the case in two years, then maybe you're right. But as of now, certain peoples' perception is not reality.
 

MplsGopher

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When I lived in Rochester I wished the Mayos had established their clinic in Winona and built up a city there in a beautiful setting rather than in one of the only lakeless counties in MN.
Sure. Any small(er) town. Rochester is only Rochester because of Mayo. Wherever Mayo had established itself ... you do: Mayo + IBM + main UMN campus + state capital. Actual college town feel. Who knows.
 

tmvander

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So he and his staff get no credit for the development of Martin, Barber, Winfield, Renner, Williamson or Coughlin? Pretty sure those guys were all underclassmen when Fleck took over. So they didn't improve and play better at all in their final 3 seasons? Very strange take.

Pretty sure we need to realize A. How much turnover we had on the D side this year and B. How much it affects things when a new defense doesn't have spring ball, very little contact in practice and no off-season time together.

This year is a shitshow but I am not worried in the least about PJs ability to recruit and develop talent. Definitely not changing my opinion based on 2020 (the weirdest year ever)
So he and his staff get no credit for the development of Martin, Barber, Winfield, Renner, Williamson or Coughlin? Pretty sure those guys were all underclassmen when Fleck took over. So they didn't improve and play better at all in their final 3 seasons? Very strange take.

Pretty sure we need to realize A. How much turnover we had on the D side this year and B. How much it affects things when a new defense doesn't have spring ball, very little contact in practice and no off-season time together.

This year is a shitshow but I am not worried in the least about PJs ability to recruit and develop talent. Definitely not changing my opinion based on 2020 (the weirdest year ever)
Very strange take?

Well, we are both in agreement that recruiting isn't the issue.

Development - we aren't in agreement.

Overall coaching, X's and O's, game management, preparation, in game adjustments - now here I think we are struggling quite a bit too but since the thread was on recruiting (AKA players) I didn't think it was worth discussion.

That leaves your argument of "the weirdest year ever." I think other teams have had to deal with COVID, not having a spring or fall practice, all 3 teams we've lost two new QB's, inexperience at positions, strange school schedule, etc.

I don't know, personally I think you have a strange take. To each their own.
 

WriterGoph

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Very strange take?

Well, we are both in agreement that recruiting isn't the issue.

Development - we aren't in agreement.

Overall coaching, X's and O's, game management, preparation, in game adjustments - now here I think we are struggling quite a bit too but since the thread was on recruiting (AKA players) I didn't think it was worth discussion.

That leaves your argument of "the weirdest year ever." I think other teams have had to deal with COVID, not having a spring or fall practice, all 3 teams we've lost two new QB's, inexperience at positions, strange school schedule, etc.

I don't know, personally I think you have a strange take. To each their own.
Yes, all programs have had to deal with it. I think with the way PJ operates, this has hit us harder than some others.

But back to lack of development on D. You didn't address my question. So you give zero credit to PJ for all the development last year's defensive stalwarts experienced from 2017 to 2019? I'm having a hard time understanding that part of your take. Those guys all played for PJ longer than they played for Kill or Claeys.
 

tmvander

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no you're right there have totally been guys who have been studs thus the concerned word and not trying to spew stupid attempted facts.

I'm concerned with the defense development as our current defense either hasn't developed at all under fleck or haven't developed under fleck enough to where true freshman have to play (not playing well i might add).

This defense could be historically bad...this isn't just one blow you game.
 

WriterGoph

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no you're right there have totally been guys who have been studs thus the concerned word and not trying to spew stupid attempted facts.

I'm concerned with the defense development as our current defense either hasn't developed at all under fleck or haven't developed under fleck enough to where true freshman have to play (not playing well i might add).

This defense could be historically bad...this isn't just one blow you game.
I think it's fair to be concerned for sure. If we look at the level of the D recruits (by P5 offers) from 2019-2021, things *should* improve as they have time to develop. I'm looking at the size and potential in that group and making an assumption that they develop well. I'm still excited about a lot of the young guys on DL and LB. The 2021 CB recruits should be very good. For various reasons the D is out of sync this year, but I guess I'm gonna assume that 2018 and 2019 was the real Joe Rossi defense and not this mess we are seeing this year. My assumptions could obviously prove way off next year...
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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There are coaches on teams that have sucked for ages ...they can still recruit.

Peformance doest matter, but crooting world is a strange strange world....
 

Bob_Loblaw

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We have had the same rise in crime issues in Denver since March. More shootings, more theft, plenty of protests and damage in June. Yet people are still offering $100k over asking for homes here and new apartment buildings are going up in every direction.

Point being, there are always going to be periods of time where some people perceive a city to be less safe. Said people then move to suburbs or a different state. But then new and/or young people want to move into the city. Same cycle has been happening in Minneapolis, Denver, Atlanta and many other cities for 20 years. If it wasn't, there would be abandoned houses and empty buildings all over Minneapolis. If that ends up being the case in two years, then maybe you're right. But as of now, certain peoples' perception is not reality.
The apartment buildings are emptying out. This is happening across the country though. It's COVID mixed with crime. Fewer young professionals are going to have to relocate for work and the ones that do are going to be less inclined to pay $2500/month for a soulless box. If you don't believe just click on a few homepages. . . the prices for all of these luxury apartments is dropping and the they all have move-in specials.

The housing market is having a nice little bubble right now because of the people rushing from these apartments/condos to buy homes. Essentially, people are leaving Uptown to buy a home in South Minneapolis and that ripple grows (people leave MPLS for Woodbury/Hudson, etc.). But the ripple is real. The luxury condo/apartment market is going to kaput and home prices will drop drastically.

I lived in two of these tops of buildings in Minneapolis. I lived at Elon. Elon in Uptown is cheaper today than it was 5 years ago (atypical). It's also at about 1/2 capacity. I also lived at Carlyle. People are also fleeing the Carlyle.
 

Livingat45north

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We reduced funding for the police

Lie.
Minneapolis Council Moves To Defund Police, Establish 'Holistic' Public Safety Force

The Minneapolis City Council on Friday unanimously approved a proposal to eliminate the city's police department, marking the first step toward establishing a new "holistic" approach to public safety.

Minneapolis budget committee approves cuts in police funding

Amid demands from residents to follow through on their pledge to dismantle the Police Department, members of the Minneapolis City Council Wednesday took steps towards shifting funds from the police and towards community-based violence prevention programs.

During a daylong budget markup, which included a public hearing, council members approved several amendments related to police funding and staffing. The committee approved an amendment to move $1.1 million from the Police Department to the Health Department in order to fund civilian violence interrupters who will mediate violent conflicts and help prevent further trouble.

Mayor Jacob Frey and the Minneapolis City Council released a budget plan for fiscal year 2021 on Sept. 22 that includes a $14 million cut to the city's police department's funding.

Minneapolis Police Chief Arradondo laid out the ways in which budget cuts would impact the police department in a Thursday presentation, the Star Tribune reported, including a 146-person reduction in full-time employees, including officers and other workers.
 
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A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Home prices are doing well in every portion of the United States basically. I dont know if that metric is the best measure.

Im not rooting against MPLS, Im stating that the lawlessness is an issue. And is an issue with recruitment. There is no denyin that people dont believe MPLS is safe.

You think it is like Mad Max downtown or something?
 

Face The Facts

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So he and his staff get no credit for the development of Martin, Barber, Winfield, Renner, Williamson or Coughlin? Pretty sure those guys were all underclassmen when Fleck took over. So they didn't improve and play better at all in their final 3 seasons? Very strange take.

Pretty sure we need to realize A. How much turnover we had on the D side this year and B. How much it affects things when a new defense doesn't have spring ball, very little contact in practice and no off-season time together.

This year is a shitshow but I am not worried in the least about PJs ability to recruit and develop talent. Definitely not changing my opinion based on 2020 (the weirdest year ever)
Yeh. Renner, Coughlin, Williamson... they all got NFL looks because of the previous coaching staff.

PJ has failed because his redshirt freshmen on the D-line aren't dominating against O-lines like Iowa, and his redshirt sophomore Dunlap has an injury.
It's a coach who can't develop players.

Corey Davis was probably brought into Western Michigan by someone else to who had developed him before PJ hot his hands on him. PJ isn't much of an X and O's guy. He can't develop players. And now we found out he can't recruit good players either.

It's just a magical touchpoint from the previous staff that got the team to coast to 11-2 last year.
 

Ozzy&Ray

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I'm not sure...i think if pj can do anything it's recruit. My concern is the development of those players (especially on defense) once they're here.
A huge part of recruiting is identifying talent. PJ and staff don't seem to do that well on defense, at least to this point. So, people are right to be concerned about recruiting.
 

Ozzy&Ray

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Yeh. Renner, Coughlin, Williamson... they all got NFL looks because of the previous coaching staff.

PJ has failed because his redshirt freshmen on the D-line aren't dominating against O-lines like Iowa, and his redshirt sophomore Dunlap has an injury.
It's a coach who can't develop players.

Corey Davis was probably brought into Western Michigan by someone else to who had developed him before PJ hot his hands on him. PJ isn't much of an X and O's guy. He can't develop players. And now we found out he can't recruit good players either.

It's just a magical touchpoint from the previous staff that got the team to coast to 11-2 last year.
It was. They identified a ton of defensive talent and recruited it, despite few of them, other than Coughlin, being highly recruited. To this point, Fleck has not recruited as much talent on defense as the previous staff. Hopefully that changes, but not to this point.
 

Great Plains Gopher

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PJ is a good recruiter. He has proved that. Another concern of mine is the horrible optics the city of Minneapolis is getting in the national press due to the looting and rioting. Its an embarrassment and an albatross around PJ's neck in the recruiting wars. Non one wants to send their son to a media described lawless city. What the hell has happened to Minneapolis since my days at the U many years ago? Then it was one of most pristine, best cities in the country. Not anymore in the eyes of many who pay attention to the national media.
Things do not go well when you have an all-one-party City Council and they vote unanimously to defund police! The old left was full of labor guys - pragmatists - down-to-earth types; now the leading lights are academics and idealist leftist intellectuals, who live in an alternate universe. No doubt, some parents would not send their boys to an evil big city - better to go to Lincoln or Iowa City, etc.
 

60's Guy

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Downtown Minneapolis is suffering badly like Bob and others have said...people are fleeing.
The stores, office buildings are still boarded downtown. Many of the businesses have either left or are closed. Target is still shuttered. Business owners say the police don't respond. Nobody feels safe.
 

WriterGoph

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Yeh. Renner, Coughlin, Williamson... they all got NFL looks because of the previous coaching staff.

PJ has failed because his redshirt freshmen on the D-line aren't dominating against O-lines like Iowa, and his redshirt sophomore Dunlap has an injury.
It's a coach who can't develop players.

Corey Davis was probably brought into Western Michigan by someone else to who had developed him before PJ hot his hands on him. PJ isn't much of an X and O's guy. He can't develop players. And now we found out he can't recruit good players either.

It's just a magical touchpoint from the previous staff that got the team to coast to 11-2 last year.
I hope this is sarcasm. Otherwise, extremely hyperbolic and full of bad info.

Corey Davis was only at Western Michigan under PJ Fleck. So who was it that developed him there?

Also - if you're actually serious - you screwed yourself because Chris Williamson was recruited by PJ. So I'd love to hear how Tracey Claeys helped Williamson get to the NFL? Furthermore, Sam Renner was never close to the field under the previous regime.

Again, I really hope this was just you being funny. If not, get a grip
 

GopherDog1

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I hope this is sarcasm. Otherwise, extremely hyperbolic and full of bad info.

Corey Davis was only at Western Michigan under PJ Fleck. So who was it that developed him there?

Also - if you're actually serious - you screwed yourself because Chris Williamson was recruited by PJ. So I'd love to hear how Tracey Claeys helped Williamson get to the NFL? Furthermore, Sam Renner was never close to the field under the previous regime.

Again, I really hope this was just you being funny. If not, get a grip
I was going to add as well that Williamson was a PJ transfer recruit. I am guessing he will fill this next class out with more transfers like him and OJ Smith; also a PJ recruit.
 

Word

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Home prices are doing well in every portion of the United States basically. I dont know if that metric is the best measure.

Im not rooting against MPLS, Im stating that the lawlessness is an issue. And is an issue with recruitment. There is no denyin that people dont believe MPLS is safe.
There are people moving out of Minneapolis but there are also people moving in. There was a recent Strib article that talked about it.

The reason downtown is empty is because everyone is working from home, not because of lawlessness.
 

Face The Facts

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I hope this is sarcasm. Otherwise, extremely hyperbolic and full of bad info.

Corey Davis was only at Western Michigan under PJ Fleck. So who was it that developed him there?

Also - if you're actually serious - you screwed yourself because Chris Williamson was recruited by PJ. So I'd love to hear how Tracey Claeys helped Williamson get to the NFL? Furthermore, Sam Renner was never close to the field under the previous regime.

Again, I really hope this was just you being funny. If not, get a grip
I was lacing it with sarcasm so some people would realize that not everyone who went to the NFL was a magically developed during the brief period prior to PJ's arrival.

Even Cashman... it took PJ to give Cashman a scholly. How do you evaluate that? Previous "recruit" who previous staff didn't award a scholarship to yet is in the NFL?
 

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I was lacing it with sarcasm so some people would realize that not everyone who went to the NFL was a magically developed during the brief period prior to PJ's arrival.

Even Cashman... it took PJ to give Cashman a scholly. How do you evaluate that? Previous "recruit" who previous staff didn't award a scholarship to yet is in the NFL?
Didn't PJ play Celestin with a badly injured shoulder ahead of Cashman the year before Blake had his breakout year? I don't think PJ necessarily saw how good Cashman was at an early stage. I am sure Cashman would have had a scholarship eventually if Claeys or Kill was still there.
 

btowngopher

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Obviously losing doesn’t help recruiting, but i don’t really expect much drop off at this point. If next year is bad then I’d be more worried.
 

WriterGoph

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I was lacing it with sarcasm so some people would realize that not everyone who went to the NFL was a magically developed during the brief period prior to PJ's arrival.

Even Cashman... it took PJ to give Cashman a scholly. How do you evaluate that? Previous "recruit" who previous staff didn't award a scholarship to yet is in the NFL?
Good. I feel like I had you pegged as a very reasonable poster based on what I have seen in recent years. Bottom line, I think we agree we can't really say PJ hasn't developed well based on freshmen LBs and DLs. Its been extremely rough, but I do think we will see a much better team by end of 2020.
 

PMWinSTP

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Yeh. Renner, Coughlin, Williamson... they all got NFL looks because of the previous coaching staff.

PJ has failed because his redshirt freshmen on the D-line aren't dominating against O-lines like Iowa, and his redshirt sophomore Dunlap has an injury.
It's a coach who can't develop players.

Corey Davis was probably brought into Western Michigan by someone else to who had developed him before PJ hot his hands on him. PJ isn't much of an X and O's guy. He can't develop players. And now we found out he can't recruit good players either.

It's just a magical touchpoint from the previous staff that got the team to coast to 11-2 last year.
I feel like multiple people post under this moniker, anybody else have that feeling?
 

PMWinSTP

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I was lacing it with sarcasm so some people would realize that not everyone who went to the NFL was a magically developed during the brief period prior to PJ's arrival.

Even Cashman... it took PJ to give Cashman a scholly. How do you evaluate that? Previous "recruit" who previous staff didn't award a scholarship to yet is in the NFL?
Many, many Flecksters posted that Cashman was not an every down LB. Too small, too slow.
 

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I've said this in another thread too.

What could have been. If the U of MN (main campus) and the state capital had been in Rochester, along with Mayo.

It could've been a leading technology (IBM) and medical hub, in the world. It would've been a real college town feel.

Who knows.
Dumbest take ever. There are 100K people in Rochester. The U wouldn’t be anywhere near what it is in a town that small. It would be better to have it in the suburbs and away from all that $hit in Minneapolis. Minneapolis is well on it’s way to becoming the $hithole the City Council and Mayor have longed for. If you don’t think the unrest has anything to do with recruiting then your head is so far up your a$$ you can’t see it.
 

Catechol

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A 10 second Google search reveals that half of the B1G schools are in cities <100K. If Rochester had the main UMN campus the city would be bigger and more diverse/diversified than it is now, and no reason the U couldn’t be as strong as it is now, just like 100K college town counterparts UMich, Illinois, etc. On the contrary, would it have been better for flagship state U’s to be in Detroit, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, etc.?
 

LakerFan

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There are people moving out of Minneapolis but there are also people moving in. There was a recent Strib article that talked about it.

The reason downtown is empty is because everyone is working from home, not because of lawlessness.
Been thinking of moving downtown now that the kids are grown, regularly looking on Zillow, actually was hoping for some kind of dramatic white flight price drops, not really happening yet, BUT prices definitely plateaued in an area where they were rising at a terrific rate.

Problem is most of the pro's of downtown living are deteriorating with COVID, sporting events, theaters, concerts not only shut down for now, but no relief on the horizon and questionable if many will survive a one year lock down. I don't think it's alarmist to suggest that personal safety is decreased from a year ago downtown, it may not be mad max down there, but it's not better or even the same as it was a year ago.

The big draw that is still there is access to all the parks and lakes. When they announced that they were damming up part of the river near stone arch it drew thousands of people down there, that's what qualifies as a major event these days. :) If we roll into next spring without addressing people living in tents in all the parks in Minneapolis, my guess is those tent cities will double and the trouble with that will double and that might lead to actual decrease in property values.
 
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