Reading between lines, expect fans to be present?

MplsGopher

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There's still time to make a decision. Let's see what happens by the start of Aug.

If Minn's numbers still look good, or at least as good as Wisc's, and Wisc is going to play ... then Minn should play. No fans in stands perhaps, or parents only, something. If you get sick, you're out for 2 weeks, unless you pay out of pocket for your own cv19 test and it's negative.
 

Some guy

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There's still time to make a decision. Let's see what happens by the start of Aug.

If Minn's numbers still look good, or at least as good as Wisc's, and Wisc is going to play ... then Minn should play. No fans in stands perhaps, or parents only, something. If you get sick, you're out for 2 weeks, unless you pay out of pocket for your own cv19 test and it's negative.
Good idea but there is absolutely no way for a public school to enforce that.
 

MplsGopher

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Good idea but there is absolutely no way for a public school to enforce that.
Random audits could be done by the MSHSL, on some small-ish sub-sample of schools. Probably the most they can do.
 

GoldenRodents

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Sweden hasn't even come close to herd immunity. They can very easily still see another spike in cases and deaths.
@MplsGopher, @RahSkiUMah: here is the way I see it. COVID19 is...

(1) highly contagious
(2) selectively lethal to those with underlying medical conditions
(3) a harmless flu-like illness to the healthy
(4) bounces of a significant population with pre-existing coronavirus immunity.

It is so contagious that contact tracing is virtually impossible. It raced through the NYC subways sickening many and killing the fragile, this added to the initial panic.

Herd immunity will come faster than you think because such a large number of people are already immune, and the number of infected with no symptoms is sky-rocketing.

The moment we knew that the young and healthy were not impacted we should have stopped the lockdowns except for those areas short on hospital capacity.

We weakened our country with this foolishness.
 

Some guy

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Random audits could be done by the MSHSL, on some small-ish sub-sample of schools. Probably the most they can do.
All any kid would have to do is say no and that would eliminate the randomness of a sample.

If your kid is healthy. Why would you let your kid take a test that could rule them out for two weeks based on a false positive or them even being an asymptomatic case?
 

Some guy

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Sweden hasn't even come close to herd immunity. They can very easily still see another spike in cases and deaths.
True. But Sweden any any worse off or better off when compared to Denmark, Norway, and Finland. All 3 of which have similar populations, took totally different approaches, and have achieved results that aren’t significantly different from each other both economically and health results wise.
 

MplsGopher

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All any kid would have to do is say no and that would eliminate the randomness of a sample.

If your kid is healthy. Why would you let your kid take a test that could rule them out for two weeks based on a false positive or them even being an asymptomatic case?
If you say no, you can’t participate. Some will choose not to comply I’m sure.
 

MplsGopher

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True. But Sweden any any worse off or better off when compared to Denmark, Norway, and Finland. All 3 of which have similar populations, took totally different approaches, and have achieved results that aren’t significantly different from each other both economically and health results wise.
More deaths isn’t worse off?

I’ll take saving lives over the loss of “freedoms” any day.

Whole thing pretty much boils down to that concept.
 

Some guy

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If you say no, you can’t participate. Some will choose not to comply I’m sure.
I am not an MSHSL attorney but to require some sort of test to participate whether it be steroids, drugs, or Covid would at a minimum require an act of the board and maybe even the state legislature.

fat chance.

Here is all you need to know about Minnesota HS sports for 2020-21


If there is in person school like a typical year...there will likely be sports
If there isn’t there is a 0% chance of sports.
 

MplsGopher

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I am not an MSHSL attorney but to require some sort of test to participate whether it be steroids, drugs, or Covid would at a minimum require an act of the board and maybe even the state legislature.

fat chance.

Here is all you need to know about Minnesota HS sports for 2020-21


If there is in person school like a typical year...there will likely be sports
If there isn’t there is a 0% chance of sports.
You could be exactly right in both counts. Not saying there’s no chance that you’re right.

Just saying, I don’t see why Minn has to be unique, if other states in relatively good places can figure something out. Minn should be able to do the same or similar.
 

Some guy

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More deaths isn’t worse off?

I’ll take saving lives over the loss of “freedoms” any day.

Whole thing pretty much boils down to that concept.
There isn’t a huge difference in the data between the 4 countries.
And as Sweden is further along in terms of how many in its population have been exposed, the impact could narrow between countries or expand in coming weeks
 

Some guy

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You could be exactly right in both counts. Not saying there’s no chance that you’re right.

Just saying, I don’t see why Minn has to be unique, if other states in relatively good places can figure something out. Minn should be able to do the same or similar.
The MSHSL is horribly run and inefficient. If you’re expecting them to do something that makes sense and is logical I applaud your positivity.

they’ll probably come up with a smart policy for navigating Covid19 in the summer of 2024
 

IVIcChaos

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There isn’t a huge difference in the data between the 4 countries.
And as Sweden is further along in terms of how many in its population have been exposed, the impact could narrow between countries or expand in coming weeks
MplsGopher I think “Some guy” is right on this one. Sweden is proving the measures/lockdowns by other countries make no noticeable difference. If you disagree I’d love to see some numbers or graphs showing how the measures/lockdowns helped.
 

GophersInIowa

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True. But Sweden any any worse off or better off when compared to Denmark, Norway, and Finland. All 3 of which have similar populations, took totally different approaches, and have achieved results that aren’t significantly different from each other both economically and health results wise.
If you translate the death rate in each of those countries to the US population it would result in these number of deaths in the US at this point.
Sweden: 176K US deaths
Denmark: 35K US deaths
Norway: 15K US deaths
Finland: 20K US deaths

That's a big difference if you ask me.
 

Some guy

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If you translate the death rate in each of those countries to the US population it would result in these number of deaths in the US at this point.
Sweden: 176K US deaths
Denmark: 35K US deaths
Norway: 15K US deaths
Finland: 20K US deaths

That's a big difference if you ask me.
What death rate? The death rate per case? Or the number of deaths per capita?

I assume you realize the outbreak is not over in any of those 4 countries?

I assume you realize one of the most effective countries at dealing with the disease didn’t shut everything down (South Korea)

There are a lot of variables.
mask wearing
Lockdown
Timing of the lockdown
Adherence to the lockdown rules
Population density
Demographic factors
General health of the population
Hospital capacity
Nurses per capita
Doctors per capita
Temperature


Here is an article from New York talking about how the new cases in the heat of the upswing were from people who stayed at home. This information may be out of date right now.


There has yet to be a statistical study showing that a general lockdown is an effective strategy to deal with coronavirus. At least not one that I’ve seen.
In the United States the worst outbreaks have been New York and New Jersey who had some of the strictest lockdown guidlines. While there are breakouts in states that relaxed guidelines right now, they’ve yet to approach the levels seen in New York City at peak. I’ve not read any studies the past few weeks so I won’t cite sources about the studies showing there is no difference: those studies are likely outdated by now. The data could very well show that lockdowns in the forms they happened worked.

Anecdotally, I think some elements of the lockdown worked quite well and other parts of it may have even hurt and caused the spread to happen faster. For instance, when absolutely everything was closed more people were likely to break the lockdown and get together inside someone’s home which may increase the spread. When outdoor social gatherings were allowed people were more likely to adhere to the guidelines.

It May be better to have a medium intensity policy that people actually follow than the strictest policy that 70% of the population ignores or can’t adhere to.
 

PMWinSTP

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True. But Sweden any any worse off or better off when compared to Denmark, Norway, and Finland. All 3 of which have similar populations, took totally different approaches, and have achieved results that aren’t significantly different from each other both economically and health results wise.
Sweden has fared far worse than those three compared individually and combined.
 

PMWinSTP

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What death rate? The death rate per case? Or the number of deaths per capita?

I assume you realize the outbreak is not over in any of those 4 countries?

I assume you realize one of the most effective countries at dealing with the disease didn’t shut everything down (South Korea)

There are a lot of variables.
mask wearing
Lockdown
Timing of the lockdown
Adherence to the lockdown rules
Population density
Demographic factors
General health of the population
Hospital capacity
Nurses per capita
Doctors per capita
Temperature


Here is an article from New York talking about how the new cases in the heat of the upswing were from people who stayed at home. This information may be out of date right now.


There has yet to be a statistical study showing that a general lockdown is an effective strategy to deal with coronavirus. At least not one that I’ve seen.
In the United States the worst outbreaks have been New York and New Jersey who had some of the strictest lockdown guidlines. While there are breakouts in states that relaxed guidelines right now, they’ve yet to approach the levels seen in New York City at peak. I’ve not read any studies the past few weeks so I won’t cite sources about the studies showing there is no difference: those studies are likely outdated by now. The data could very well show that lockdowns in the forms they happened worked.

Anecdotally, I think some elements of the lockdown worked quite well and other parts of it may have even hurt and caused the spread to happen faster. For instance, when absolutely everything was closed more people were likely to break the lockdown and get together inside someone’s home which may increase the spread. When outdoor social gatherings were allowed people were more likely to adhere to the guidelines.

It May be better to have a medium intensity policy that people actually follow than the strictest policy that 70% of the population ignores or can’t adhere to.
Death rate per population. Most tracking sites use deaths per million pop. It is not even close. Same for cases per million pop. Sweden's rates are way worse.
 

Some guy

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Death rate per population. Most tracking sites use deaths per million pop. It is not even close. Same for cases per million pop. Sweden's rates are way worse.
They are at different stages of the epidemic
 

oak_street1981

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OK, this is anecdotal, but does anyone, anywhere know of anyone who was heathy otherwise, and under 60 dropping dead of COVID? I am around 50, have been working around 600 plus Union people for months, now am hitting jam packed Bars (patio and inside) in St. Paul for two weeks, and I feel healthy as normal.

We are going to the the Sweden model one way or another because the average Minnesotan is rejecting Tim Walz and his BS. The average person is rejecting all government mandates, based on their own observations......... COVID death hype is now all over.......05
 
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FWIW - I was talking to a friend of mine who is a HS football coach. he in turn was talking to someone who is active in the MN State HS Football Coaches association. The contact in the Coaches' association said at this point, he does NOT expect HS football to be played this fall in MN.

I offer that only to show the mindset of people who are making decisions at the state level.

now, I still tend to think we will have college FB this Fall. But if there are fans in the stands - especially to start the season, I will be very surprised.
Purely speculation and opinion. That is not the opinion of the MFCA or MSHSL. Return to learning the week of July 27 by the MDH will define our fall sports.
 
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The MSHSL is horribly run and inefficient. If you’re expecting them to do something that makes sense and is logical I applaud your positivity.

they’ll probably come up with a smart policy for navigating Covid19 in the summer of 2024
You’ve obviously missed the work already done with 510 member schools this summer.
 

Some guy

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You’ve obviously missed the work already done with 510 member schools this summer.
I’ve been at my school coaching athletes this summer according to MSHSL guidelines.

that doesn’t mean their policy makes any sense. Their policy is currently guided more by perception than by safety.
 

MplsGopher

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The MSHSL is horribly run and inefficient. If you’re expecting them to do something that makes sense and is logical I applaud your positivity.

they’ll probably come up with a smart policy for navigating Covid19 in the summer of 2024
I’ve been at my school coaching athletes this summer according to MSHSL guidelines.

that doesn’t mean their policy makes any sense. Their policy is currently guided more by perception than by safety.
I get that you're very passionate on this, and also thank you for your work with our young people.

But I disagree that the MSHSL is already doomed to failure on this. There is still time. Let's see what happens over the course of this month.
 

MplsGopher

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They are at different stages of the epidemic
How so, and what proof?

I have no doubt that a higher percentage of Sweden's residents in its urban centers have been exposed to the virus than the urban centers in the other Nordic countries.

But as a whole, what proof do you have that it isn't the case of something like Sweden's population is at say 15% who have been exposed, compared to say 7% for Nordic countries?

That would both confirm what you say, and yet would not be meaningful in terms of a significant benefit.
 
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I’ve been at my school coaching athletes this summer according to MSHSL guidelines.

that doesn’t mean their policy makes any sense. Their policy is currently guided more by perception than by safety.
So have I. You’re not following policies. You’re following MDH guidelines and recommendations . Your lack of knowledge would make me nervous as a parent. Understanding policy. Bylaw, and recommendations is important. Follow what’s taking place at the NFHS level. You’ll see what’s coming. Happy no contact period
 

Some guy

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So have I. You’re not following policies. You’re following MDH guidelines and recommendations . Your lack of knowledge would make me nervous as a parent. Understanding policy. Bylaw, and recommendations is important. Follow what’s taking place at the NFHS level. You’ll see what’s coming. Happy no contact period
How can you determine I’m not following policy based on one post that says I’ve been coaching?
Oh well

EDIT: I misread what you wrote


I’m not sure you’ve read the context of the discussion.
I may be conflating the word policy and guideline at times. It would take policy change to mandate medical tests for athlete eligibility in the fall was the point I was making
 
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MplsGopher

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How can you determine I’m not following policy based on one post that says I’ve been coaching?
Oh well

I’m not sure you’ve read the context of the discussion.
I may be conflating the word policy and guideline at times. It would take policy change to mandate medical tests for athlete eligibility in the fall
Right, so back to that part of it.

What are Iowa and Wisconsin doing/planning for?
 

Some guy

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Right, so back to that part of it.

What are Iowa and Wisconsin doing/planning for?
No idea on Wisconsin but Iowa is playing high school baseball right now and I would assume some other sports...not sure what they have that is a summer sport,

they are playing it as normal but a positive test by an athlete essentially temporarily pauses the schedule for the team that has a positive test for a period. But I haven’t followed that closely. The tests are Not mandated. It would be like any person going to get a test for any reason.

I find it highly doubtful that high school athletic associations or public schools generally will have regimented testing of all athletes and students In any state.
 
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