Qualified Immunity

bga1

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Take away qualified immunity from police and you will have a far less safe America. For every alleged lawsuit against a cop that was legitimate you would have 50 that were not.

Terrible, terrible idea. Cops are already at too much legal risk.
 

justthefacts

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We already have two threads on this:



bga1's argument is so silly. Yes, probably America would be less safe without qualified immunity. America would also be MORE safe if we totally eliminated the 4th Amendment altogether. The murder rate in China is minuscule.

Conservatives pretend to care so deeply about the Constitution, but in the end they don't care if the police can bypass due process as long as they can feel safe from the boogeyman.

And the ONLY time that Trumpkins care about due process is when they feel it's been violated for a powerful white guy.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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You can have a proactive police force with qualified immunity (not full immunity mind you), that polices and brings low crime, or you can have no police which brings anarchy, or you can have police who don't stop crimes, just show up after-the-fact and clean up the mess. Most Americans, most Black people...want a proactive police force.
 

TruthSeeker

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Most conservatives are against the 4th and 6th Amendments. I'm not one of them.

There are so many exceptions to due process and obtaining warrants that have been granted by conservative SCOTUS Justices and touted by conservatives that we might as well get rid of those Amendments.
 

justthefacts

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You can have a proactive police force with qualified immunity (not full immunity mind you), that polices and brings low crime, or you can have no police which brings anarchy, or you can have police who don't stop crimes, just show up after-the-fact and clean up the mess. Most Americans, most Black people...want a proactive police force.

You used to care about law enforcement overreach. Libertarians are against qualified immunity, and you used to Ron Paul and Rand Paul.
 

bga1

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Most conservatives are against the 4th and 6th Amendments. I'm not one of them.

There are so many exceptions to due process and obtaining warrants that have been granted by conservative SCOTUS Justices and touted by conservatives that we might as well get rid of those Amendments.
You aren't a conservative. Let's start there.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Conservatives are dedicated to the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights includes the 4th Amendment.

In my opinion, Qualified Immunity really does eat away at the teeth of the 4th Amendment. Qualified Immunity is judge-made law that is now repeated like its gospel. The proper remedy for a state actor violating another's constitutional rights is through tort suits. The statutes never mention anything about immunities, a judge penciled those in.
 

LesBolstad

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The problem is the public (me) has to pay all the liability costs. I did not commit the tort, why should I have to pay? Taxation without representation.
 

bga1

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You're not conservative. You're a GOP lackey.
I am disgusted by the GOP as a whole. They have no guts and many are as corrupt as the Dems. I am just far more disgusted by your corrupt Democrat party who are led by socialists/radicals. That's who you are now. Own it.
 

justthefacts

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The problem is the public (me) has to pay all the liability costs. I did not commit the tort, why should I have to pay? Taxation without representation.

The idea is that police wouldn't harm and steal from citizens, thus prompting lawsuits, if they weren't protected so extensively by the courts.
 

justthefacts

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I am disgusted by the GOP as a whole. They have no guts and many are as corrupt as the Dems. I am just far more disgusted by your corrupt Democrat party who are led by socialists/radicals. That's who you are now. Own it.

Come on, TruthSeeker, get it straight. bga1 doesn't claim to be Republican or Conservative, he pledges eternal fealty to the whims of Dear Leader Donald J. Trump!
 

TruthSeeker

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I am disgusted by the GOP as a whole. They have no guts and many are as corrupt as the Dems. I am just far more disgusted by your corrupt Democrat party who are led by socialists/radicals. That's who you are now. Own it.
I am the most honest person on thjs board. I will be voting for Biden after committing a grave error by voting for Trump. As long as Trump is not the 2024 nominee, I will wholeheartedly vote against Biden.

You have zero political honesty or integrity.
 

bga1

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Come on, TruthSeeker, get it straight. bga1 doesn't claim to be Republican or Conservative, he pledges eternal fealty to the whims of Dear Leader Donald J. Trump!
No, you liar. I am conservative/Republican, because it is the better of the two choices. You are so dishonest. Right now, Trump and about half of the Rs in congress are fighting for a free and prosperous America with great opportunity for all. The other half of the Rs are going along to get along and make some cash where they can. For the Dems, it is all about the money and the power. All of it. Right now the power is with the radical socialists that want to tear the country down.

I am with those fighting for America which despite its flaws has been the greatest nation in the history of the world. Yes Trump is the leader of that effort and I am with him, despite his obvious flaws.

You are cooperating with and cheering on the destruction of America.
 

bga1

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I am the most honest person on thjs board. I will be voting for Biden after committing a grave error by voting for Trump. As long as Trump is not the 2024 nominee, I will wholeheartedly vote against Biden.

You have zero political honesty or integrity.
You are a dishonest troll. Period. But thank you for that one moment of honesty. You are voting for Biden who is going to be taking a knee and bowing to the radicals. Own it.

You will own:

-Open borders, rampant illegal immigration
-The continued destruction of our cities
-An economy that will tank under the progressive steam roller that Biden will allow (when awake)
-Biden is compromised with China (Hunter's 1.5 billion deal) and WILL get rolled
-Biden's corruption. Ukraine is investigating him now. He is videoed in a quid pro quo. Five of his family members have profited from Biden's political power
-Everything you see today from the insane progressive side will ramp up. Say goodbye to America. You own that.
-Biden was in on the framing of Flynn and the spying of the Trump campaign. "The Logan Act"-his suggestion...
 
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TruthSeeker

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You are a dishonest troll. Period.
LOL!

Go support more big government programs. Did you like the bailouts the last few months? Watch Trump and McConnell do it again.

Massive frauds and losers, just like you.
 

bga1

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LOL!

Go support more big government programs. Did you like the bailouts the last few months? Watch Trump and McConnell do it again.

Massive frauds and losers, just like you.
Joe Biden voter! LOL!!!
 

howeda7

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You used to care about law enforcement overreach. Libertarians are against qualified immunity, and you used to Ron Paul and Rand Paul.
The Fellas used to believe a lot of things before they joined the cult. Remember the Tea Party pretending to care about the debt? The good old days.
 

GoodasGold

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I am the most honest person on thjs board. I will be voting for Biden after committing a grave error by voting for Trump. As long as Trump is not the 2024 nominee, I will wholeheartedly vote against Biden.

You have zero political honesty or integrity.
I will never vote for president any candidate over the age of 80.
 

STPGopher

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We already have two threads on this:



bga1's argument is so silly. Yes, probably America would be less safe without qualified immunity. America would also be MORE safe if we totally eliminated the 4th Amendment altogether. The murder rate in China is minuscule.

Conservatives pretend to care so deeply about the Constitution, but in the end they don't care if the police can bypass due process as long as they can feel safe from the boogeyman.

And the ONLY time that Trumpkins care about due process is when they feel it's been violated for a powerful white guy.
I apologize. Can this be merged?
 

Section2

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You used to care about law enforcement overreach. Libertarians are against qualified immunity, and you used to Ron Paul and Rand Paul.
Police enforce the laws. There are a TON of laws on the books. Many of them stupid. And what the public considers excessive force by police, is many times what the police are trained to do. The problem is not police, by and large, but government and way too many laws and controls.
To the extent police is the problem, I think the initial outcry against police unions was correct. Funny, that seems to have died off (maybe when it was realized that police unions were in bed with Democrats, and getting rid of police unions might prompt a move against public unions generally, which would probably destroy the Democrat party).
 

Section2

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The problem is the public (me) has to pay all the liability costs. I did not commit the tort, why should I have to pay? Taxation without representation.
That's always been my confusion on the issue as well. Suing the government in general seems like a bizarre concept. The people responsible aren't paying, you are.
 

justthefacts

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Police enforce the laws. There are a TON of laws on the books. Many of them stupid. And what the public considers excessive force by police, is many times what the police are trained to do. The problem is not police, by and large, but government and way too many laws and controls.
To the extent police is the problem, I think the initial outcry against police unions was correct. Funny, that seems to have died off (maybe when it was realized that police unions were in bed with Democrats, and getting rid of police unions might prompt a move against public unions generally, which would probably destroy the Democrat party).

You missed Bob_Loblaw's post. Qualified immunity shields police from misconduct, even when they're not following the law, and it was enacted in the judiciary. It's the exact kind of thing you'd normally hate.

You should also read the other threads. The police stole money, didn't turn it in, didn't return it to the owners, and the Appeals Court ruled that QI protected that. Then SCOTUS refused to hear the case.

As for police unions, I agree with the Police Union Contract Project's list of reforms and I wish that they would have been included in the House bill: https://www.checkthepolice.org/#project

That said, the House bill does end QI.
 

Panthadad2

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Once qualified immunity is reformed, it will ending up increasing costs to local governments whether directly or indirectly (cops being sued individually but demanding more pay to compensate). That could be a good thing. Local governments will have a vested interest in ensuring the police force is being run responsibly.

That extra cost will also just add one more reason to move out of the core urban areas. COVID and the SAH orders already got the ball rolling. The riots are pushing that ball even faster.
 
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