Penn State Football - Will NOT refund seat contributions for 2020 if fans ask for a refund...

mnsportsgeek

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Must be nice to have the luxury of a STH waitlist. You get to make these choices when there is a line of people waiting to buy tickets.

The angry fans don't have a leg to stand on here legally. They're forced donations. Not tickets.
If you're angry enough then cancel your tickets and let the next person in line take them.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Must be nice to have the luxury of a STH waitlist. You get to make these choices when there is a line of people waiting to buy tickets.

The angry fans don't have a leg to stand on here legally. They're forced donations. Not tickets.
If you're angry enough then cancel your tickets and let the next person in line take them.
Oh I duno if the idea of a required donation means you can keep it for sure.

You can call something anything you want on paper, courts might see it as something else. There's no magic word there.
 

hello-world

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Must be nice to have the luxury of a STH waitlist. You get to make these choices when there is a line of people waiting to buy tickets.

The angry fans don't have a leg to stand on here legally. They're forced donations. Not tickets.
If you're angry enough then cancel your tickets and let the next person in line take them.
I'm not a lawyer. However, two parties agreed to exchange money for a service. One party collected the money and refused to provide the service. They are wide open to a lawsuit. It doesn't matter how that payment is classified for tax purposes.

You can't keep money for a service that you didn't provide.
 

Ski U Master

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I'm not a lawyer. However, two parties agreed to exchange money for a service. One party collected the money and refused to provide the service. They are wide open to a lawsuit. It doesn't matter how that payment is classified for tax purposes.

You can't keep money for a service that you didn't provide.
No no no, you don't understand, that donation has noting to do with the tickets. It's just a nice donation with no bearing on a tangible product. Also student athletes are just normal students that happen to play sports and would be attending the school even if they weren't talented at sport.
/s
 

mnsportsgeek

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No no no, you don't understand, that donation has noting to do with the tickets. It's just a nice donation with no bearing on a tangible product. Also student athletes are just normal students that happen to play sports and would be attending the school even if they weren't talented at sport.
/s
You don’t need the /s for your first two sentences because you’re exactly right. You’re making a donation to the athletic department for the privilege of buying season tickets. You can bet Vikings season ticket holders aren’t getting a refund on their seat license, and those aren’t even tax deductible.

I’ve always thought these seat donations were a farse, but somehow they’ve stuck around.
 

mnsportsgeek

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I'm not a lawyer. However, two parties agreed to exchange money for a service. One party collected the money and refused to provide the service. They are wide open to a lawsuit. It doesn't matter how that payment is classified for tax purposes.

You can't keep money for a service that you didn't provide.
They took your donation to their department, and in turn allowed you to purchase season tickets. The donation is done deal. They’re refunding the season tickets.

Sleezy? Yes. Illegal? Probably not.
 

Livingat45north

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I'm not a lawyer. However, two parties agreed to exchange money for a service. One party collected the money and refused to provide the service. They are wide open to a lawsuit. It doesn't matter how that payment is classified for tax purposes.

You can't keep money for a service that you didn't provide.
My understanding is you can't claim a charitable contribution was made where the payment requires a service to be provided. Anyone that claims they didn't get a paid for service that has also claimed that amount as a donation on their taxes, is admitting to tax fraud.
 

hello-world

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They took your donation to their department, and in turn allowed you to purchase season tickets. The donation is done deal. They’re refunding the season tickets.

Sleezy? Yes. Illegal? Probably not.
Definitely illegal. You cannot offer to provide a service in exchange for a payment and then refuse to provide that service. No court in their right mind would come down on the other side of this.
 

mnsportsgeek

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Definitely illegal. You cannot offer to provide a service in exchange for a payment and then refuse to provide that service. No court in their right mind would come down on the other side of this.
They’re getting refunded for the service they paid for.
 

hello-world

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"They took your donation to their department, and in turn allowed you to purchase season tickets"

^ This is a transaction. If there are no tickets to buy, then they did not uphold their end of the transaction, and they must refund the money. It is not legal to keep that money. I could not do that with my side business, neither could anyone else, University or no.
 

hello-world

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My understanding is you can't claim a charitable contribution was made where the payment requires a service to be provided. Anyone that claims they didn't get a paid for service that has also claimed that amount as a donation on their taxes, is admitting to tax fraud.
Not relevant in a civil suit between ticket buyers and a University. But I agree with you that the system in use today is fraudulent.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher

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My understanding is you can't claim a charitable contribution was made where the payment requires a service to be provided. Anyone that claims they didn't get a paid for service that has also claimed that amount as a donation on their taxes, is admitting to tax fraud.
You are correct that the donation made to receive the right to purchase season tickets are not deductible. But, our firm has the opinion that the 2020 donation will be deductible, since there are no season tickets attached. Staying on the ticket list is intangible.
 

Crosby

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I really don't care too much if it's technically legal (or not). Let the lawyers argue about that. It is flat-out wrong, and it is a slap in the face to some of PSUs loyal fan base. I would be really pissed. Losing some money PSU? Too bad... it is a consequence of the decision to shut things down due to COVID. Do the right thing and give the money back.
 
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