Only 17% of teachers in Minnesota want to return to full time in-person instruction in September

tikited

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So, your telling me that if students complete no assignments or assessments, they can't be failed? If so, that's a problem. However, I don't see it as a problem that is unique to distance education. After all, a student could come to an in-person class every day but do absolutely no preparation, studying, listening, or assignments and still bomb the course.
My district did this: If a kid was passing before the shutdown, they pass automatically. They didn't have to do a single thing. If the kid was failing before, they at times were passed by going behind the teachers back so to speak.
 

mggoph

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I find it ironic that the teacher shown in the photo who is presenting the results is somewhat (100 lbs?) overweight...she prolly shouldn't go back.
 

Spoofin

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Significant experience with teaching (although not with kids) and some experience with distance education.
That seems like enough to me in order to voice an opinion on a message board - but what do I know?
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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My district did this: If a kid was passing before the shutdown, they pass automatically. They didn't have to do a single thing. If the kid was failing before, they at times were passed by going behind the teachers back so to speak.
I would have to think that any kid that gets failed by a teacher in the next 12+ months is going to have their parents scream bloody murder, extenuating circumstances, this is unfair, and it all goes away. And the children in this scenario are the "winners"...
 

bga1

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People that want to teach want to go back. For those that it's just a paycheck, this will be the preferred direction.
I think that in the beginning, most all of them wanted to teach and help students. Over time the poison of the teacher's union sets in and an attitude of taking care of me first becomes the guiding principle.
Summers off, secure job, steady wage, secure benefits- no performance necessary. Good work is not rewarded.
 

Bad Gopher

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Distance learning is a joke for the kids (the younger they are, the bigger the joke).
That wasn't our experience. My wife distance-taught her second-grade class, and it went well. I assisted, and I saw it first hand. There were a few kids who didn't take it as seriously as they should've, and that was addressed with Zoom 1-on-1s between my wife and the student, and when that didn't work, a conference including the parents. I was surprised how engaged the kids were and how much learning was going on. Part of that was my wife's teaching prowess, but the other part is that kids these days are adept at online and electronic learning.

But it was a hell of a lot of work from the teaching end of things. We worked full weekends recording videos, and she worked well into the evening and sometimes late night processing schoolwork and tests. It was a grind. How to do an entire year of that...I'm not sure it's sustainable.
 

Spoofin

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That wasn't our experience. My wife distance-taught her second-grade class, and it went well. I assisted, and I saw it first hand. There were a few kids who didn't take it as seriously as they should've, and that was addressed with Zoom 1-on-1s between my wife and the student, and when that didn't work, a conference including the parents. I was surprised how engaged the kids were and how much learning was going on. Part of that was my wife's teaching prowess, but the other part is that kids these days are adept at online and electronic learning.

But it was a hell of a lot of work from the teaching end of things. We worked full weekends recording videos, and she worked well into the evening and sometimes late night processing schoolwork and tests. It was a grind. How to do an entire year of that...I'm not sure it's sustainable.
Sounds to me like the kids were lucky to have your wife as a teacher.
 

short ornery norwegian

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It's hard to make generalizations because each district is a unique situation. In my local school district, I know for a fact that the teachers tried very hard to make distance learning work as well as possible. They also learned a lot that they can apply to future distance learning situations - even if it's just a "virtual" school day due to winter storms.

Granted, with distance learning, kids need to be more self-motivated and that can vary from kid to kid.

But - bottom line - show me a kid with good grades, and in most cases, that kid has parents who support education and provide a quality home environment. show me a kid with bad grades, and odds are the parents don't give a bleep about education or the home life is a bleep show.

BTW - my prediction is that MN will go to the "Hybrid" approach, so kids will wind up spending half the year in class and half doing distance learning.
 

short ornery norwegian

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But it was a hell of a lot of work from the teaching end of things. We worked full weekends recording videos, and she worked well into the evening and sometimes late night processing schoolwork and tests. It was a grind. How to do an entire year of that...I'm not sure it's sustainable.
Important point here. Distance learning means more work for teachers. So, if the teachers are advocating for a system that means they will have to do more work, there is probably a very good reason for that opinion. distance learning does not mean taking the easy way out - it's quite the opposite.
 

cjbfbp

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My district did this: If a kid was passing before the shutdown, they pass automatically. They didn't have to do a single thing. If the kid was failing before, they at times were passed by going behind the teachers back so to speak.
But those are problems of low expectations, not distance learning. Probably there is an interaction because not all kids had the right equipment for distance learning and they feared possibly disastrous results from the sudden transition.
 

mggoph

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It's hard to make generalizations because each district is a unique situation. In my local school district, I know for a fact that the teachers tried very hard to make distance learning work as well as possible. They also learned a lot that they can apply to future distance learning situations - even if it's just a "virtual" school day due to winter storms.

Granted, with distance learning, kids need to be more self-motivated and that can vary from kid to kid.

But - bottom line - show me a kid with good grades, and in most cases, that kid has parents who support education and provide a quality home environment. show me a kid with bad grades, and odds are the parents don't give a bleep about education or the home life is a bleep show.

BTW - my prediction is that MN will go to the "Hybrid" approach, so kids will wind up spending half the year in class and half doing distance learning.
spot on
 

Bad Gopher

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Important point here. Distance learning means more work for teachers. So, if the teachers are advocating for a system that means they will have to do more work, there is probably a very good reason for that opinion. distance learning does not mean taking the easy way out - it's quite the opposite.
And it's been the same with the college instructors of my younger daughter. I've heard from the range of educators that it's been a lot of work.
 

cjbfbp

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Granted, with distance learning, kids need to be more self-motivated and that can vary from kid to kid.
Yes and no. With distance learning, 1) a student doesn't have to get up at 5:30 AM, get dressed, ride a school bus; 2) for asynchronous assignments, a student can do them on his own time and at his own pace if there are somewhat flexible deadlines, and 3) the student doesn't have to sit around school for 7 or 8 hours a day. In most cases, the student could finish the required work in fewer hours per week than there are in a normal school week. That potentially can work well for a student who prefers more free time.
 

MNGopher23

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I'm assuming you have significant experience with distance learning and have spent years testing alternative pedagogical methods to make such an absolute proclamation. Is that correct?

Or, is this just your opinion, based on nothing particular, which you believe is 100% valid until someone takes the effort to prove you wrong? And, since no one on a message board likely will do that, and you certainly won't do it yourself, your opinion is bulletproof.

I'm guessing it's the latter.
Distance learning is most definitely a joke. Even if it's his opinion, a majority of individuals would agree with him. One of my best friends is a middle school teacher down in Rochester who previously taught at a city school in South Minneapolis. He said when they went to distant learning near the end of the year, about 1/3 of the students would show up for virtual lessons. Even more troubling, he would allocate one day for 1 on 1 sessions with students to help them understand the material better, assist on homework, etc. He told me on average he would have about two students show up. Who is going to hold the child accountable during the day if mom and dad are at work? Kids need discipline and they need structure, that is not an opinion, it is fact.
 

Bad Gopher

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I don't think anyone would argue that in-person teaching isn't better in general, under normal circumstances. Last month we taught our advanced-level road design course on line, and although I think it went as well as it could have, it just wasn't the same. A field walk was replaced by a video of a field walk. Small-group case-study discussions were replaced by small-group chat rooms with the facilitator presenting on a screen. It was clunky and frazzled. But it was still better than nothing and way better than risking life and limb. If you look at this like, how can we make the best of this situation without screwing the pooch by pretending it can be perfect, that's the attitude you need to have.
 

cjbfbp

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School District C: All students were placed on Pass/Fail no matter what. Soooooo unfair to the kids who did good work and had solid grades before the shutdown.
Well, that's just flat out stupid. There's a simple work around for that. PASS/FAIL is the default but the instructor is required to submit two grades: one is pass or fail and the other is an actual letter grade. Students have the option at the end of the session to pick which one they want.
 

cjbfbp

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Distance learning is most definitely a joke. Even if it's his opinion, a majority of individuals would agree with him. One of my best friends is a middle school teacher down in Rochester who previously taught at a city school in South Minneapolis. He said when they went to distant learning near the end of the year, about 1/3 of the students would show up for virtual lessons. Even more troubling, he would allocate one day for 1 on 1 sessions with students to help them understand the material better, assist on homework, etc. He told me on average he would have about two students show up. Who is going to hold the child accountable during the day if mom and dad are at work? Kids need discipline and they need structure, that is not an opinion, it is fact.
You don't have to design an online course this way. You can design it as asynchronous. Students have materials to review and are tested on them constantly. They can work at their own pace but do have regular deadlines. If they don't do the work, they don't pass. There are numerous ways to handle this sort of instruction. Trying to replicate a face-to-face classroom digitally may not be the best one.
 

cjbfbp

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I don't think anyone would argue that in-person teaching isn't better in general, under normal circumstances.
Certainly some courses are much more difficult to do in an online environment. I have less experience with online instruction than with face-to-face instruction but I found that the students in an online asynchronous class paid more attention to the readings and the application materials (they were tested constantly on both). I was also able to make allowances that I normally couldn't do in a a face-to-face class: giving them more time and two attempts at each assessment.
 

bga1

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You don't have to design an online course this way. You can design it as asynchronous. Students have materials to review and are tested on them constantly. They can work at their own pace but do have regular deadlines. If they don't do the work, they don't pass. There are numerous ways to handle this sort of instruction. Trying to replicate a face-to-face classroom digitally may not be the best one.
Yes that will work fine with half the kids. The other half, the ones without a solid family life...not so much. There is no getting around the damage that would be done by failing to go back to school for live classroom studies.
 

monk10

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Distance learning is/was a joke. Any teacher with a shred of honesty will agree to that. It was a total joke.
Everything I have seen about you posting is that your first attempt at teaching distance learning (5 days to prepare) and the matter of it being end of school track makes me think that going into a class room with you this fall would be vastly improved.

As far as the voting: Asking a teacher to develop multiple curriculum across the tracks (digital + in school coupled with High/Medium/Low levels) will create situations where teachers will be extremely frustrated. I imagine that if digital learning is an automatic then voting just to remain digital seems smarter from a teaching perspective because they can devote full time to developing a curriculum that will meet the kids needs all in one location (remote).
 

howeda7

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My wife just retired rather than return to in-person teaching in the fall. (The Catholic schools have unequivocally said they're going back in person.) It isn't worth dying for. I've talked to other teachers, and they're generally enthused about the challenges at hand but also very concerned about their health and the health of others.
Maybe the private schools will have better luck, but it feels like no one really has a "plan" for how to do this in person while observing social distancing, etc. It feels like we're just going to say the heck with it and try it and see what happens. I can't blame anyone who doesn't want to sign up for that uncertainty. I'll be surprised if a significant % of schools aren't closed and back distance learning by 4-6 weeks in.
 

monk10

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Do you know the difference between home schooling and distance learning?

Congratulations, you just took away the award you created yesterday for worst comparison.
I'm doing a ton of research on homeschooling. There are curriculum that appear similar to the distance learning model. Are you able to point to where you found the differences. I am weighing my options.
 

howeda7

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In some districts, by mandate, at the end of the quarter, all the students who did nothing got a passing grade. Message sent, loud and clear. We don't care, you don't have to do the work. We just move you on along. Stay stupid. Cops are who we are worried about.
Sounds like you need to run for school board, Beeg. I don't know of any districts that did that.
 

cjbfbp

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Distance learning is most definitely a joke.
Everything I have seen about you posting is that your first attempt at teaching distance learning (5 days to prepare) and the matter of it being end of school track makes me think that going into a class room with you this fall would be vastly improved.

As far as the voting: Asking a teacher to develop multiple curriculum across the tracks (digital + in school coupled with High/Medium/Low levels) will create situations where teachers will be extremely frustrated. I imagine that if digital learning is an automatic then voting just to remain digital seems smarter from a teaching perspective because they can devote full time to developing a curriculum that will meet the kids needs all in one location (remote).
Terrific thoughts! I salute you.

The more scenarios one is asked to prepare for, the less likely that one will do a good job with any of them.
 

MennoSota

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For grades 5-12 there is no compelling reason to be fully face-to-face. The area for f2f is with extra curricular sports or theater and for biology/chemistry labs. Free up the times and space in the schools and you can schedule the labs so you have proper spacing.
K-4 is a different matter. These grades need more hands on and I don't see how online will be helpful, but there could be a hybrid approach so half the class comes to school on alternate days while having the other days at home and online.
 

USAF

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Do you know the difference between home schooling and distance learning?
Yes. Yes I do.

"Homeschooling" is what we call it when it's done by right wing zealots and we have political reasons to support it.

"Distance learning" is what we call it when we have political reasons to not support it.

Thanks for asking.
 

cjbfbp

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Yes that will work fine with half the kids. The other half, the ones without a solid family life...not so much. There is no getting around the damage that would be done by failing to go back to school for live classroom studies.
All right. That seemed like an honest and thoughtful response. Let's remember though that the traditional form of education has had less than spectacular results for a substantial portion of the student population. I'm not convinced that distance education, if designed properly and with appropriate expectations, can't work as well the traditional method at least temporarily.
 

cjbfbp

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For grades 5-12 there is no compelling reason to be fully face-to-face. The area for f2f is with extra curricular sports or theater and for biology/chemistry labs. Free up the times and space in the schools and you can schedule the labs so you have proper spacing.
K-4 is a different matter. These grades need more hands on and I don't see how online will be helpful, but there could be a hybrid approach so half the class comes to school on alternate days while having the other days at home and online.
Hey you posted something that was thoughtful and non-ideological! I'm impressed.
 

Gopherlife

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I'm honestly surprised by this. I was hanging out with four yesterday and all can't wait to get back.
They must not be part of the 1/4th of union members that took the survey.
 
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