Omersa and Mitchell and Freeman

Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
435
Reaction score
15
Points
18
Would it be possible to see one or more of these three to be redshirted. Johnson will likely start at Power Forward and Ihnen will be his backup. Robbins will be the Center with Curry as his backup. If Freeman is the third backup at Center and Omersa is the third backup at Power Forward, why wouldn't they give Mitchell a year to put weight onto his 190 lb frame? Or if Mitchell is surprisingly good would Omersa take some time to work on his free throws?
 

Stan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
3,618
Reaction score
199
Points
63
Redshirting is often done for guys you want to give a scholarship to for 5 years. Freeman has definitely not shown that we want him around for 5 years. Omersa is not taking a redshirt year to work on his free throws a year after he averaged 11.5 minutes per game.

Mitchell we don't know yet.

Pitino is arguably coaching for his job. He needs every weapon he can get.
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
42,001
Reaction score
3,037
Points
113
Redshirting is often done for guys you want to give a scholarship to for 5 years. Freeman has definitely not shown that we want him around for 5 years. Omersa is not taking a redshirt year to work on his free throws a year after he averaged 11.5 minutes per game.

Mitchell we don't know yet.

Pitino is arguably coaching for his job. He needs every weapon he can get.
Curry is fragile so you need Freeman active. I think people are going to be surprised by Freeman at some point. Not sure if it will be this year but I think he is going to be solid.
 

Chico Gopher

Active member
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
103
Reaction score
69
Points
28
I'm not sleeping on Freeman at all. He may never be a star, but unless he slacked all summer long, I'd like to give him a chance to earn 8-10 minutes a game. He was a fairly unknown freshman, who was making a huge jump in competition and was never going to take minutes away from Daniel O., but he looked physically solid enough to not get pushed around when he did get a few minutes.

Guys like that often show good improvement once they get to experience and understand the level they need to be at. I think it's very possible he could end up being a really nice surprise in a back-up role this season.

I don't think red shirting him now will make that much difference because I think last season was essentially his red shirt year.
 

TruthSeeker

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
4,601
Reaction score
1,002
Points
113
Curry is fragile so you need Freeman active. I think people are going to be surprised by Freeman at some point. Not sure if it will be this year but I think he is going to be solid.
I think you're right. He's going to turn into a solid player before his career is over.
 

60's Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
266
Points
83
1000% Freeman needed minutes last year to get acclimated and inspired. Then we would have seen a bigger jump this year than whatever we do see this year.
If he doesn’t get minutes this year that’ll be
pretty disappointing. All he needs to be able to do is play post defense. He is able to dunk and make free throws.
 

die hard gopher

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
8,760
Reaction score
223
Points
63
If Mitchell is truly a top 150 recruit then I'm expecting him to get minutes before Omersa and Freeman who in my mind are on the same path as Bakary, Hurt and Gaston until proven otherwise. Top 150 guys usually end up in the rotation as true freshman, even if they are a little raw.
 

tmvander

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
173
Points
63
Omersa will for sure play this year...His energy especially on the defensive side of the ball should get him minutes. The red shirt thing in basketball is tricky. I feel like there are very few players who would get on board with this. These guys all want to play ASAP.
 

eker0016

Importer Exporter
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
1,373
Reaction score
160
Points
63
Omersa will for sure play this year...His energy especially on the defensive side of the ball should get him minutes. The red shirt thing in basketball is tricky. I feel like there are very few players who would get on board with this. These guys all want to play ASAP.
For bigs, we have:

Liam Robbins (only plays 5)
Sam Freeman (only plays 5)
Eric Curry (plays 4 or 5)
Jarvis Omersa (plays mostly 4, occasionally some 5)
Brandon Johnson (I'm guessing mostly 4? He is 6'8", 220)
Isaiah Ihnen (plays 3 or 4, but 4 is probably ideal)
Martice Mitchell (6'10", said he was 197 in April...I remember him talking about wanting to handle the ball...so maybe more of a wing? Maybe some time at the 3 and the 4?)

It's a great problem to have but I think we are more likely to see games where Jarvis plays 0-10 minutes, like he did in 8 of the final 11 games as Ihnen was really coming on.
 

60's Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
266
Points
83
Redshirting is especially problematic for guys who are marginal. Guys with limited upside. You are saddled with them for 5 years instead of 4. You want to move on to somebody else. Hopefully, you can recruit better on your next attempt.

There are a ton of factors. What is their attitude? What is their work ethic? Do you like being around them or do you wish they’d transfer? How much did they improve from summer to the start of the season? Is it hopeless in your estimation? Can you see them being All Big Ten if ......? Why are they behind in their development? Do they love the game or is it work to them? Are you stacked with guys ahead of them at their position who will graduate? The list goes on....
 

60's Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
266
Points
83
I too, like Omersa’s energy. If there are no crowds, how much is his value diminished? His teammates see him every day. They are used to what he brings. Without the crowd response i’m not sure that aspect of his play is going to be as significant.
He maybe is going to have to be more effective and productive to earn the same minutes?
 

bc2211

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
1,200
Reaction score
143
Points
63
I too, like Omersa’s energy. If there are no crowds, how much is his value diminished? His teammates see him every day. They are used to what he brings. Without the crowd response i’m not sure that aspect of his play is going to be as significant.
He maybe is going to have to be more effective and productive to earn the same minutes?
It could also mean more. Having greater hype on the bench in the absence of a crowd would be an advantage in my opinion. Hustle plays can also be contagious... But depends on if he is feeding off the crowd perhaps.
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
5,903
Reaction score
1,608
Points
113
Redshirting is especially problematic for guys who are marginal. Guys with limited upside. You are saddled with them for 5 years instead of 4. You want to move on to somebody else. Hopefully, you can recruit better on your next attempt.

There are a ton of factors. What is their attitude? What is their work ethic? Do you like being around them or do you wish they’d transfer? How much did they improve from summer to the start of the season? Is it hopeless in your estimation? Can you see them being All Big Ten if ......? Why are they behind in their development? Do they love the game or is it work to them? Are you stacked with guys ahead of them at their position who will graduate? The list goes on....
Greay post. Those programs that have had huge success with it target guys that are open to in recruiting and have nearly always been guys that the staffs thought was the best player in that class.
 

jovs

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
3,543
Reaction score
111
Points
63
Redshirting is especially problematic for guys who are marginal. Guys with limited upside. You are saddled with them for 5 years instead of 4. You want to move on to somebody else. Hopefully, you can recruit better on your next attempt.

There are a ton of factors. What is their attitude? What is their work ethic? Do you like being around them or do you wish they’d transfer? How much did they improve from summer to the start of the season? Is it hopeless in your estimation? Can you see them being All Big Ten if ......? Why are they behind in their development? Do they love the game or is it work to them? Are you stacked with guys ahead of them at their position who will graduate? The list goes on....
Big men develop later, if you are going to red shirt you do it for guys like Omersa or Freeman, guys that gave good size and athleticism but are behind in basketball skills, with 13 scholarships on the roster you can afford to take a risk or two,
 

60's Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
266
Points
83
Big men develop later, if you are going to red shirt you do it for guys like Omersa or Freeman, guys that gave good size and athleticism but are behind in basketball skills, with 13 scholarships on the roster you can afford to take a risk or two,
I agree for sure about the bigs taking longer. However, even if you call yourself a shot doctoring, shot whispering ninja...there are some guys you just can't develop as shooters. Omersa might be one. It wouldn't seem it is for lack of effort in his case.
Freeman can shoot based on free throws, why didn't he see the floor? We had a need defensively on several occasions. He seems to be a good sized guy. I'm assuming he bangs or why would you recruit him? So he is a mystery to me on the very limited exposure I've had to him why he didn't get minutes. He pretty much had his redshirt year without meeting the criteria.

Mitchell is the guy who without any insights seems the best candidate to redshirt. He seems athletic.
He has the makings of a shot it's just too mechanical or slow. He will improve his ball handling because he wants to be a guard. If you are going to try to make him a center you shouldn't have recruited him. Yes, Kevin Durant is slender but it seems it would help Mitchell to become stronger no matter where he plays. He seems like he might have the best upside depending on willingness to be coached and work. So, he is my redshirt candidate if we have one. If Gach is eligible and the rest of the fellas stay healthy and eligible imo Mitchell won't see the floor. Too many guys need or should get minutes ahead of him.
 

Gophs24

Active member
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
610
Reaction score
86
Points
28
Yeah if Mitchell is ok with it i would love to see him redshirt. He seems like the perfect candidate for it. Im excited about his future, im just not sure how much run he will get his freshman year.
 

bc2211

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
1,200
Reaction score
143
Points
63
If I were a player, this might be my year to redshirt. Seems like a lot of uncertainty around the season, post season, and university function as a whole. I may want to spend a year strictly working on development and put this behind me in a productive way.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
15,949
Reaction score
2,541
Points
113
My worthless opinion is it's better for the roster to turn over faster. Don't redshirt anyone, play them as much as they can help their freshmen year. Let them grad transfer (or regular transfer) if/when they feel they aren't getting enough playing time.
 

goldenboy

Active member
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
939
Reaction score
72
Points
28
Redshirting is a gamble in the era of grad transfers. You invest an extra scholarship year to let a player develop and if he finishes his degree in four years you risk losing him to grad transfer for perceived greener pastures, so your investment never pays off.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
443
Reaction score
283
Points
63
How many games/minutes does a player have to participate in before losing their redshirt? Was wondering if it is similar to football

Maybe he can use the early part of the season to figure that out??
 

CentralGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
44
Points
48
Freeman has the most chance of that out of the three since floor time will be very limited for him but still <10 percent chance of that.
 

60's Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
266
Points
83
How many games/minutes does a player have to participate in before losing their redshirt? Was wondering if it is similar to football

Maybe he can use the early part of the season to figure that out??
In basketball, the rule has been that if you check into a game you lost your redshirt opportunity.
Pretty big contrast to football's four games. If it hasn't changed, it must be up for discussion?
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
443
Reaction score
283
Points
63
In basketball, the rule has been that if you check into a game you lost your redshirt opportunity.
Pretty big contrast to football's four games. If it hasn't changed, it must be up for discussion?
Thanks for your reply.

I hope so it being looked at.

The basketball coaches association should be throwing a tantrum - needs to be equitable. 4 games out of 12 is 25% of the season - so make it the same for basketball.

Amazes me that the NCAA consistently doesn't treat all sports equally. The transfer rule where non-revenue athletes can transfer without having to sit for a year, while revenue sports athletes have to sit a year, drive me bonkers as well.


Good grief they are poorly run organization.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
15,949
Reaction score
2,541
Points
113
In basketball, the rule has been that if you check into a game you lost your redshirt opportunity.
Pretty big contrast to football's four games. If it hasn't changed, it must be up for discussion?
But again, that's if you actually want a player to be in the program for the full five calendar years.

And that just increases the likelihood that he'll graduate and then grad transfer.


Also, yes football is the only sport that has a special carve out, right now. Every other sport, if you participate in a single play or just step on the court/field ... that counts as one of your four seasons, unless you get a medical waiver.
 

60's Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
266
Points
83
But again, that's if you actually want a player to be in the program for the full five calendar years.

And that just increases the likelihood that he'll graduate and then grad transfer.


Also, yes football is the only sport that has a special carve out, right now. Every other sport, if you participate in a single play or just step on the court/field ... that counts as one of your four seasons, unless you get a medical waiver.
We are the University of Minnesota, we play in the Big Ten...we can’t be making decisions because we are worried somebody might grad transfer to a better opportunity.
With the exception of some very rare circumstances, this is the best opportunity if you are going up versus down in levels. Okay, somebody could conceivably jump to Duke or Kentucky but are there really that many perceived better destinations? We are elite.
 

die hard gopher

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
8,760
Reaction score
223
Points
63
We are the University of Minnesota, we play in the Big Ten...we can’t be making decisions because we are worried somebody might grad transfer to a better opportunity.
With the exception of some very rare circumstances, this is the best opportunity if you are going up versus down in levels. Okay, somebody could conceivably jump to Duke or Kentucky but are there really that many perceived better destinations? We are elite.
Willis was a starter here and grad transferred to the College of Charleston to get a bigger role. Also different sport but Gaelin Elmore was a starting DE here a few years ago and grad transferred to East Carolina. Also Notre Dame QB Everrett Golson grad transferred to Florida State even though they weren't necessarily the better program.

Point is lots of times P5 players grad transfer not because they are going to a better program but simply due to a change of scenery after 4 years or possibly a bigger role at a lower level and no one no matter who you are is immune to losing grad transfers they would like to keep, even the most desirable programs.
 
Top Bottom