***OFFICIAL ILLINOIS AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

Some guy

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Every team has it's ups and downs, but this is extreme.

They have a top 30-40 roster, but their computer rankings are in the 50-60 range at the moment. Not good.
I don’t think we have a top 30-40 roster. But that’s a harder case to make.
I personally think the team has out-performed the makeup of its parts.

but im down on everyone other than Robbins and Johnson compared to most.

Meaning
I think Carr is worse than the average person thinks Carr is
I think Gabe is worse than the average person thinks Gabe is
Etc
 

Bad Gopher

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I don’t think we have a top 30-40 roster. But that’s a harder case to make.
I personally think the team has out-performed the makeup of its parts.

but im down on everyone other than Robbins and Johnson compared to most.

Meaning
I think Carr is worse than the average person thinks Carr is
I think Gabe is worse than the average person thinks Gabe is
Etc
It's disingenuous to crow about how many top-10 teams they've knocked off and then claim they don't have top-40 talent. It's illogical. It doesn't add up. You can get a fluky upset without that kind of talent but not four.
 

McDobb4BB

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It's disingenuous to crow about how many top-10 teams they've knocked off and then claim they don't have top-40 talent. It's illogical. It doesn't add up. You can get a fluky upset without that kind of talent but not four.
I agree ... inconsistency is a sign of weak/bad coaching. This team is not held accountable and it doesn’t appear to have clear expectations, especially on the defensive end of the court.
 

Some guy

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It's disingenuous to crow about how many top-10 teams they've knocked off and then claim they don't have top-40 talent. It's illogical. It doesn't add up. You can get a fluky upset without that kind of talent but not four.
Agree to disagree

The number four team in the country has 4 losses
The number 7 team in the county is 6-5 away from home and lost to San Francisco.

Outside of Gonzaga, Baylor, and maybe Michigan nobody is THAT good. Upsets happen.

The divide between the 20th best team in the country and the 70th best team in the country isn’t that big.
 
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DanvilleGopher

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It really stinks to see the wheels coming off again. Like others have said, this team has talent on the roster and there is no way they win those games if they didn't. I really feel bad for the kids.

What sealed it for me was last year was witnessing consecutive 10 second back court violations at home last year. (I cannot recall if it was Iowa or PSU game) I have never seen that before and to me it epitomizes coaching ability. What is a bit head scratching is how can the son of one of the greatest of all time seem so lost at times when it comes to coaching?
I've really wondered about this myself and this was a HUGE reason I got excited when he was hired... the bloodline and the things I hoped he learned from Rick. I always thought it was strange that he talked about Donovan as the one he modeled his style after.

I wanted this to work out in the worst way; but we're at a point where the team gave up on him yesterday, and Coyle was there to see it all. I'm hoping this sealed his fate!!

I just get this really weird feeling he's going to get another year and the injuries and Covid will play into that decision yet again (along with making the tourney again, if they do, regardless of outcome). Truth be told; I wanted him gone the year (just 2 years ago) they beat Louisville as I recall talking to my dad on the phone about this and I sooooo wanted them to make the tournament, and I sooooo wanted him gone at the same time and told my dad if they did make the tournament, it would probably save Pitino. I was SOOOOO conflicted :eek:

We could have a replay of that year, this year.
 
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GoodasGold

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Uh, their player did slide completely off it. Onto his back. That will be sore today, I'm sure.

It is really amazing that a major, career ending injury hasn't happened. Like a guy flying off and then down a stairwell and becoming paralyzed.

That's all it would take, and the U would be sued into oblivion for negligence. How do they not see that?
That’s really a WCS you’re describing. Can’t believe many people are losing sleep over that possibility. Besides that raised floor serves the purpose of keeping all the lower level geriatrics off the court after occasional B1G upsets. 😉
 

DanvilleGopher

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Let's dig a little deeper into this. Occasional players leaving early for a professional career is a good thing for a program's reputation. All teams have injuries from time to time. Robbins playing yesterday (and the game before) gives an indication of why injuries on Pitino teams seem to have a way of lasting.

While it was almost inevitable that Pitino's 2018 team would take a tumble after Lynch's suspension and Coffey's injury, I don't feel that it was inevitable for the team would go 2-14 after that. Pitino's teams are always one or two injuries away from absolute disaster. That speaks to poor roster construction/development and inability to adjust to changing circumstances. There's never been a "next man up" psychology under Pitino.
Totally agree and I think part of that is that he doesn't prepare his bench players to be players if called upon due to the fact HE DOESN'T PLAY THEM!! There have been so many situations where these 'bench players' could have gotten valuable playing time, but for whatever reason, he doesn't plug them in.
 

builtbadgers

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Agree to disagree

The number four team in the country has 4 losses
The number 7 team in the county is 6-5 away from home and lost to San Francisco.

Outside of Gonzaga, Baylor, and maybe Michigan nobody is THAT good. Upsets happen.

The divide between the 20th best team in the country and the 70th best team in the country isn’t that big.
Great post .
 

Bad Gopher

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The divide between the 20th best team in the country and the 70th best team in the country isn’t that big.
This is definitely true. As I write, in Jeff Sagarin's ratings, the #20 team has a rating of 86.38, and the #70 team is at 80.44. That's six points, which on one hand is a pretty big spread when you convert it to win probability. But when you think about what six points means in the course of a game, it's a rebound, a good/bad shot selection, getting to a 50/50 ball, and an unforced turnover. The margin of victory and defeat is so small...it's the teams that play relatively mistake free, play as a team, move the ball, move their feet on defense, have good rebounding fundamentals--in other words, play efficiently and refined. That further emphasizes how important coaching is, not to mention what aspects of coaching. The guy who wins the press conference is going to talk about schemes, style, blah, blah, but the guy who wins games is going to instill fundamental soundness and a team that knows what it's doing out there. We don't have that here.
 

Some guy

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This is definitely true. As I write, in Jeff Sagarin's ratings, the #20 team has a rating of 86.38, and the #70 team is at 80.44. That's six points, which on one hand is a pretty big spread when you convert it to win probability. But when you think about what six points means in the course of a game, it's a rebound, a good/bad shot selection, getting to a 50/50 ball, and an unforced turnover. The margin of victory and defeat is so small...it's the teams that play relatively mistake free, play as a team, move the ball, move their feet on defense, have good rebounding fundamentals--in other words, play efficiently and refined. That further emphasizes how important coaching is, not to mention what aspects of coaching. The guy who wins the press conference is going to talk about schemes, style, blah, blah, but the guy who wins games is going to instill fundamental soundness and a team that knows what it's doing out there. We don't have that here.
Yeah. You can win an extra 2-3 possessions a game per coaching.
You can also do it by recruiting shooters, we have none.
You can also do it by having continuity on the team, we have none due to our recruiting strategy
You can also do it by having few turnovers, we have a lot because some of our guys aren’t ready for this level of play.

I think we are seeing the same problems. I think you blame the coach for not “coaching them up”
I blame the coach for both not coaching them up and also not having enough guys to coach up.
 

howeda7

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Please be specific ... how did you describe him?

He had a great patient move to score and a couple of nice defensive stops.

What exactly do you expect?
You could describe Colt Iverson the same way. Doesn't mean he wasn't an adequate B1G center.
 

Some guy

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You could describe Colt Iverson the same way. Doesn't mean he wasn't an adequate B1G center.
I always liked how he threw elbow.
Guy got more reviews for flagrant foul per minute than any other player in big ten history
 

BarnBurner

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Yeah. You can win an extra 2-3 possessions a game per coaching.
You can also do it by recruiting shooters, we have none.
You can also do it by having continuity on the team, we have none due to our recruiting strategy
You can also do it by having few turnovers, we have a lot because some of our guys aren’t ready for this level of play.

I think we are seeing the same problems. I think you blame the coach for not “coaching them up”
I blame the coach for both not coaching them up and also not having enough guys to coach up.
Actually, I think MN turnovers are not bad at all, IIRC - in comparison.
 

Some guy

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Actually, I think MN turnovers are not bad at all, IIRC - in comparison.
Anecdotally I don’t think the team turnover numbers are that bad; but the turnover we do have are really bad and lead to points for the other team. They are often unforced turnovers. Ihnen getting passes from the wing to the top of the key intercepted for layups the other way just sticks in my head though there are probably only 4-5 of those the whole year
 

BarnBurner

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Anecdotally I don’t think the team turnover numbers are that bad; but the turnover we do have are really bad and lead to points for the other team. They are often unforced turnovers. Ihnen getting passes from the wing to the top of the key intercepted for layups the other way just sticks in my head though there are probably only 4-5 of those the whole year
Both Carr and Tre are very, very guilty of sloppy ass passes. No questions.
 

McDobb4BB

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Both Carr and Tre are very, very guilty of sloppy ass passes. No questions.
Last game wasn’t so great - Tre with 2, Marcus with 3, and Jamal had 5 which is a pretty big number. Combine that with the trio not looking very good on D and you can see how the IL guards had the numbers they got.
 

Otis

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I feel sorry for those of you able to watch this game.
 

short ornery norwegian

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Talent is great - but talent has to be coupled with execution.

On nights the Gophers execute, they can beat a lot of teams. On nights the Gophers don't execute, they can lose to anyone.

So, I don't think it's a question of talent.

Compared to the Gophers I would rather have a team with less "talent" - but with consistent hustle and execution.
 

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SON, I would agree with you on the surface, but what do the Gophers actually run on O to say they execute or not? There is no set that is recognizable outside a little weave up top and see what happens. There is no pass/screen away, pass/basket cut. No pick and roll, no high-low. No Flex. Just very little movement and chucking a 3 when open (or not). Watching other teams eat them alive with recognized offensive sets is beyond frustrating. Overly simplified, I know, but man this is old.
 

Go Gophs

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Yup. Definitely time (or past time) to match a move. And I agree....I think Pitino would land somewhere else. A De Paul in the Big East would be nice. He might fare better with recruiting out east. And he's still young. Plenty of room for growth.

Yes, he needs to go somewhere that defense isn't important or played very much. His teams have never played as physical or well enough on defense to compete in this conference. Inconsistencies and flaws in your offense, system/abilities, etc really stand out when you are playing against tough, physical defense every night.
 

Go Gophs

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I’m sitting here watching the Michigan and Ohio State game and thinking these two are the 3rd and 4th ranked teams in the country and we crushed them both at home. What the hell happened to our team?

All the rest of the conference improved throughout the season. It is as simple as that and a recurring theme.
The goal of any team/program is to get better every day. Haven't seen it around here for quite a few years.
 

Go Gophs

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So what does a good defensive team look like? Is it based on recruiting rankings?
Tough, smart, in-sych, willing, hard working, good rebounders.

Watch Illinois or Maryland play defense. Those are what good looking defensive teams look like.
 
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