***OFFICIAL ILLINOIS AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

McDobb4BB

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If this is the best roster construction this year, he is awful at it.

he has no shooters. He has no continuity. He has a bunch of players that don’t fit together in a system. The team is mediocre because the roster is mediocre. If things go right, good enough to beat a good team...but not good enough to win consistently
If this is the best roster construction this year, he is awful at it.

he has no shooters. He has no continuity. He has a bunch of players that don’t fit together in a system. The team is mediocre because the roster is mediocre.
Inhen - lost
Curry - awful
Gach - awful
Robbins - injured
Kalshuer - injured and shoots 25%
mashburn - freshman
Freeman - awful
Williams - 4.3 ppg and not trusted by coach

B Johnson - I like and wish he was our 7th best instead of 3-4 (or 2 today)

Carr - very good but not great




wE HaVe A gREat RoSTeR
I
I don’t think they play any better or any worse. They are what they are. We aren’t losing because we aren’t trying. We aren’t losing because Illinois has some great game plan.
We are losing because we are missing shots and turning the ball over
We gave up almost 100 points. Their guards had no pressure all game and were making any pass they wanted, driving to the lane, hitting late contested shots, and making our guards look like cardboard cut-outs.


Hitting shots had nothing to do with this loss.
 

Bayfieldgopher

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He has some upside long term, but if you’re pretending he is good enough right now to be a contributor on a top 20 team, you’re fooling yourself. And the discussion was me against a bunch of people who think we have the talent to be a top 4-5 team in the big ten (thus making us a 1-2 seed and top 10 team)

I couldn’t even tell you who our 5th best guy is.
With two guys hobbled, I couldn’t even tell you who our third best guy is.

we lost a guy (Omursa) who I love as a guy who wanted to be in the program but it totally a one way player who gets into foul trouble when he plays his own way...and he was a mainstay of the rotation. This isn’t a top 20 roster let alone a top 10 roster. No coach in the big ten could turn this team into a top 4-5 in the conference kind of season.

They have one guy who will be first or second team all big ten (Carr)
One guy who will be third team or honorable mention (Robbins)
Two guys who are decent role players on solid teams (Gabe and Johnson)
A freshmen with some upside (mashburn)
And then a bunch of guys who wouldn’t see a single minute for any of the top 4 in the conference. (Mashburn might not have either)


Minnesota split with the team that is in 5th but that doesn’t mean they could finish 5th. They don’t have the depth of talent to be consistent.
Hey dude, I am only talking about potential and development. Anyone with a basketball sense can see what today's Ihnen is. Sporadic contributions. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

stocker08

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Konate literally had bricks for hands. I've never seen a worse center in B1G basketball... sure Freeman is better than him but that's not saying much.
So you have seen enough of Freeman in the tiny amount of spot minutes he has played to make a determination on him? Really?
 

stocker08

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For all the discussion of the tournament, and then the bubble, this team has played like a bad high major team since the best win of the season over Michigan which occurred over a month ago.

Some of the things that go on with this team just baffle me. Eric Curry trying to split a double team at the top of the key? Tre Williams going between the legs step back jumper like he's James Harden (I believe he's like 1-7 on that shot in the last 3 games and bobbed his head all the way back down the court on the one he did make). Guys telegraphing passes and throwing them with no zip or purpose (looking at Mashburn, Williams, and Robbins here in the first half). Defensively, you had guys just dying on screens and forcing Robbins on a bad ankle to switch with them out on the perimeter. Then at some point everybody quit. You can argue when that happened, and I'd argue it was before the half court heave went in but they certainly were done after it.

One major frustration I have with Pitino basketball is his refusal to go small. Now with the injuries and defections this year it would have been difficult to do it today. Illinois second biggest guys was 6'6, Maryland started nobody taller than 6'6, I believe Purdue often was "small" at the 4, Iowa often plays Weiskamp there, etc, etc. What happens with us the past two years is we keep two bigs on the floor but we have no advantage because of it. We're not physical or skilled enough inside to take advantage of the size and we give up spacing and then on the other end of the court we're at a speed/skill disadvantage when trying to defend. With Robbins this year and Demir last year we have a guy who is not a strong rebounder and arguably at least a little soft manning one of those two front court positions. If you are going to stay big, you need to dominated the paint stats and we simply don't do that.
Perfectly said.
 

cncmin

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The team gave up today. Again. That they so easily give up is far worse to me than that they got crushed at home, although one is a big reason for the other. I am not upset at my favorite team for losing to an excellent Illinois team at home. But I'm very upset that they hardly gave an effort. Is there no floor leader on this squad? If there is, it's about time they show up.
 

BarnBurner

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Hey dude, I am only talking about potential and development. Anyone with a basketball sense can see what today's Ihnen is. Sporadic contributions. Nothing more, nothing less.
Some guy pissed in some guys cheerios
 

golfing18now

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I have been one of the last holdouts in asking for a change away from Pitino. I have primarily felt this way because I think this is a really tough job and he needed time to grow into it. In retrospect, it may have been better to bottom out in year one as opposed to year three even if that meant more growing pains initially.

I think he made some questionable recruiting decisions initially (Kid who assaulted his girlfriend/Morris/Dorsey/Lynch/kid that never played here) that probably set him back but he hasn’t replicated those mistakes recently. I think the players on his last few teams have represented the University really well.

i am not overly critical of his recruiting in general because he has recruited at the level of most of the teams in the middle of the big ten. I don’t care where the kids grew up. He has hit on and/or developed a number of kids at/around second or third team all conference in Mason, Murphy, Coffey, Oturu, Carr, Robbins would be there next year, Mashburn would be there as a junior. If you want to pound away at the misses, you need to acknowledge the hits.

But at the end of the day, this team has never consistently defended (like the game vs. Michigan) and/or created enough good shots in any sort of consistent offensive scheme/flow (going one on three isn’t an offense). I feel like we are always in a pretty big deficit when it comes to quality shots. That ultimately lands at the feet of the head coach. I think we need a new one.
 

bc2211

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So, is that offense a thing?

It would appear to be completely the wrong offense to use, in the Big Ten.
Yeah I’m not saying it’s a great offense to have. Appears less inept than the Tubby scheme, but results are pretty similar.
 

McDobb4BB

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Yeah I’m not saying it’s a great offense to have. Appears less inept than the Tubby scheme, but results are pretty similar.
Our guards were terrible on defense today. Didn’t matter what we did on offense. This was an utter defensive mess that left many of our Bigs essentially helpless trying to recover or stop a dunk. Total lack of energy, effort, and discipline on the perimeter.
 

bc2211

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I have been one of the last holdouts in asking for a change away from Pitino. I have primarily felt this way because I think this is a really tough job and he needed time to grow into it. In retrospect, it may have been better to bottom out in year one as opposed to year three even if that meant more growing pains initially.

I think he made some questionable recruiting decisions initially (Kid who assaulted his girlfriend/Morris/Dorsey/Lynch/kid that never played here) that probably set him back but he hasn’t replicated those mistakes recently. I think the players on his last few teams have represented the University really well.

i am not overly critical of his recruiting in general because he has recruited at the level of most of the teams in the middle of the big ten. I don’t care where the kids grew up. He has hit on and/or developed a number of kids at/around second or third team all conference in Mason, Murphy, Coffey, Oturu, Carr, Robbins would be there next year, Mashburn would be there as a junior. If you want to pound away at the misses, you need to acknowledge the hits.

But at the end of the day, this team has never consistently defended (like the game vs. Michigan) and/or created enough good shots in any sort of consistent offensive scheme/flow (going one on three isn’t an offense). I feel like we are always in a pretty big deficit when it comes to quality shots. That ultimately lands at the feet of the head coach. I think we need a new one.
im with you. Several promising years seemed to be lost to circumstances arguably beyond his immediate control. Lynch’s troubles, Mason’s end of year hip, Coffey leaving early, and Oturu leaving early all contributed to disappointing seasons. I never felt like he was responsible for those factors, and I always saw a positive looking future. This year, however, he finally had a talented and experienced enough group to be successful.

But it simply hasnt happened, and it’s not because of an injury or anything out of his control. He showed the Big Ten his team had enough talent to beat anyone, and yet he found a way to lose.

A sweet 16 run wouldn’t convince me to keep him at this point, it would just be a mirage.
 

Some guy

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Hey dude, I am only talking about potential and development. Anyone with a basketball sense can see what today's Ihnen is. Sporadic contributions. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well then why did you bring him up as a guy that makes us a roster that can finish top 5 in the conference? Because that’s literally what everyone has been yelling at me about in this thread. I said this roster isn’t very good and doesn’t have potential to do much better than we are doing this year because it doesn’t have enough depth of talent.

now people are saying in two years ihnen could be really special.

that doesn’t really conflict with anything I’ve said
 

Some guy

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I

We gave up almost 100 points. Their guards had no pressure all game and were making any pass they wanted, driving to the lane, hitting late contested shots, and making our guards look like cardboard cut-outs.


Hitting shots had nothing to do with this loss.
okay
 

Some guy

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So what is your point?
You responded to my post about the roster not being good by saying the team was bad at defense and that’s a bigger issue than the offense. I said okay.
im not disagreeing the team is bad at defense
 

McDobb4BB

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You responded to my post about the roster not being good by saying the team was bad at defense and that’s a bigger issue than the offense. I said okay.
im not disagreeing the team is bad at defense
So what does a good defensive team look like? Is it based on recruiting rankings?
 

Some guy

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So what does a good defensive team look like? Is it based on recruiting rankings?
Have to get guys interested in playing defense. Have to get team cohesion to play defense as a team. Possible to do that with hodge podge revolving door rosters...not easy to develop that chemistry.

generally I don’t think the defense has been awful this year. But it hasn’t been good enough to overcome what I see as a shallow roster on the offensive end.

I’ve been asking who our 5th best player is all thread and nobody can name anybody who is a solid big ten basketball player yet people are pretending like we have a roster that should be top 5. Meanwhile 2 of the top 4 are injured.

we just aren’t any good. Pitino’s fault. But not because he did something wrong today.
 

McDobb4BB

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Have to get guys interested in playing defense. Have to get team cohesion to play defense as a team. Possible to do that with hodge podge revolving door rosters...not easy to develop that chemistry.

generally I don’t think the defense has been awful this year. But it hasn’t been good enough to overcome what I see as a shallow roster on the offensive end.

I’ve been asking who our 5th best player is all thread and nobody can name anybody who is a solid big ten basketball player yet people are pretending like we have a roster that should be top 5. Meanwhile 2 of the top 4 are injured.

we just aren’t any good. Pitino’s fault. But not because he did something wrong today.
Here’s your challenge... if you’re looking at best defensive players, are ok with not playing without Marcus and Jamal because they were awful today?
 

short ornery norwegian

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A collection of players does not necessarily make up a "team."

The Gophers have a collection of players.

Whether that is due to recruiting or coaching, it goes back to the same place - the guy in the Head Coach's office.
 

Some guy

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Here’s your challenge... if you’re looking at best defensive players, are ok with not playing without Marcus and Jamal because they were awful today?
Having your best player be awful at defense usually doesn’t bode well for having a lot of success. One of the reasons he isn’t an nba prospect.

i tend to give a freshmen a bit more of a break but it’s pretty late in the year.

also lost the best perimeter defender so some guys taking on new roles for the first time today against an all American perimeter guy. Our guys definitely not all Americans


Team just doesn’t have the talent.
You can’t play without those two guys. One is your best player. The other is probably in the top 4 for talent and definitely top 7 for productivity. THIS IS WHY I THINK THE ROSTER SUCKS
 

USAF

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So you have seen enough of Freeman in the tiny amount of spot minutes he has played to make a determination on him? Really?
Freeman is not a B1G basketball player. He's an uncoordinated stiff.

He's what Pitino is forced to waste a scholarship on.
 

McDobb4BB

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Having your best player be awful at defense usually doesn’t bode well for having a lot of success. One of the reasons he isn’t an nba prospect.

i tend to give a freshmen a bit more of a break but it’s pretty late in the year.

also lost the best perimeter defender so some guys taking on new roles for the first time today against an all American perimeter guy. Our guys definitely not all Americans


Team just doesn’t have the talent.
You can’t play without those two guys. One is your best player. The other is probably in the top 4 for talent and definitely top 7 for productivity. THIS IS WHY I THINK THE ROSTER SUCKS
Having your best player be awful at defense usually doesn’t bode well for having a lot of success. One of the reasons he isn’t an nba prospect.

i tend to give a freshmen a bit more of a break but it’s pretty late in the year.

also lost the best perimeter defender so some guys taking on new roles for the first time today against an all American perimeter guy. Our guys definitely not all Americans


Team just doesn’t have the talent.
You can’t play without those two guys. One is your best player. The other is probably in the top 4 for talent and definitely top 7 for productivity. THIS IS WHY I THINK THE ROSTER SUCKS
You started with “best player is awful at defense” .... I’ll help you out “HE’S NOT TOUR BEST PLAYER” if he’s awful at defense.

if your “Best” player scores 18 and gives up 22, what’s the point?
 

stocker08

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Freeman is not a B1G basketball player. He's an uncoordinated stiff.

He's what Pitino is forced to waste a scholarship on.
No. He actually looked fine in the minutes he played in both today and in the Indiana games.
 

stocker08

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Team just doesn’t have the talent.
You can’t play without those two guys. One is your best player. The other is probably in the top 4 for talent and definitely top 7 for productivity. THIS IS WHY I THINK THE ROSTER SUCKS
This is complete nonsense. A team with a complete lack of talent doesn't beat a Michigan, Ohio State, Iowa, and Purdue team. Maybe they luck into one or two of those wins....but they don't take down four or the top five teams in the conference with a roster void of talent outside of the top two or three.

It's a bad take and you should drop it.

As a few others have said....I haven't been outspoken about dumping Pitino....but this game really seals my opinion. We were getting crushed and Robbins was clearly slow and hobbled....yet he remained out there for no good reason. Seriously....why can't Freeman get an extended look? In limited time....he's made some plays.

And gameplanning is clearly something that Pitino just doesn't do well. This team seems to get dumped on directly out of half in almost every game. Why? Pitino just can't make adjustments mid-game? The games against Maryland simply show how outmatched he is. They came into both games knowing exactly how to come at this team. The second game specifically is the major embarrassment here. Forget about halftime adjustments.....Pitino had THREE WEEKS to figure out how to counter the defense they threw at us and he instead went in with the exact same gameplan. That's sad.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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I'm not a fan of the raised floor. Watched the highlights and a couple of times our players almost fell off after running hard to the basket.
 

BarnBurner

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Well then why did you bring him up as a guy that makes us a roster that can finish top 5 in the conference? Because that’s literally what everyone has been yelling at me about in this thread. I said this roster isn’t very good and doesn’t have potential to do much better than we are doing this year because it doesn’t have enough depth of talent.

now people are saying in two years ihnen could be really special.

that doesn’t really conflict with anything I’ve said
Do you not understand the need for 4 year players? Freeman and Ihnen and perfect examples.

I understand your point about roster but good grief.
 

bigyetti18

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It really stinks to see the wheels coming off again. Like others have said, this team has talent on the roster and there is no way they win those games if they didn't. I really feel bad for the kids.

What sealed it for me was last year was witnessing consecutive 10 second back court violations at home last year. (I cannot recall if it was Iowa or PSU game) I have never seen that before and to me it epitomizes coaching ability. What is a bit head scratching is how can the son of one of the greatest of all time seem so lost at times when it comes to coaching?
 

builtbadgers

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It really stinks to see the wheels coming off again. Like others have said, this team has talent on the roster and there is no way they win those games if they didn't. I really feel bad for the kids.

What sealed it for me was last year was witnessing consecutive 10 second back court violations at home last year. (I cannot recall if it was Iowa or PSU game) I have never seen that before and to me it epitomizes coaching ability. What is a bit head scratching is how can the son of one of the greatest of all time seem so lost at times when it comes to coaching?
Bobby Knights son could not coach and Knight was one of the best teachers of all time. A person is either a really gifted teacher or not. Everyone should be able to recall one special teacher they had growing up, one who stood head and shoulders above the rest. Try and remember how they could make you better than they thought you could be. Then imagine how do do that on a collective team of moving parts, how to buy in to defense or not play ! Do not like Bo Ryan as a person but he would finish top 4 with this roster. As for recruiting . We have equalled UVA and UW over 10 years, some better, some worse se either the evaluations are worse and the teaching and development or both. It is pretty hard to have losing conference records in 7 of 8 years and anyway to think you have what it takes to be special.
 
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