***OFFICIAL CLEMSON AT MINNESOTA BIG TEN/ACC CHALLENGE IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

jamiche

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Good post. We have seen far more in 7 or 8 games of Marcus Carr than we did in two years of IW (for one). To call Carr the worst point guard we have had in this program (as one poster did in another thread) is just bizarre.
I'll take credit for that take. In terms of his impact on the games thus far, I'm sticking with my assessment. If Pitino starts to limit Carr's playing time or he starts to share the ball and play defense, I'm very happy to be proven wrong. At this point he's making it harder for the team to win games. (It gives me no pleasure to say that about a twenty year old college player.)

I also agree with some of the other posters who have said that Mason is being lionized. He had some big games (mostly at home) but he also slowed ball movement, was somewhat inconsistent and didn't have a great shooting percentage. Overall, an above average major college pg, but not someone who will have a banner.

Finally, Demir is improving. He's not a physical player, but he's beginning to contribute.
 

manderson1984

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It's unreal how beloved Mason and Nolen are and how much disdain we have for Carr after 8 games. Defensively Carr is easily already better than Mason and his offensive is signifciantly better than Nolen to make up for any gap there. Carr is a better defender than Amir or Pree was especially on ball screens. Mason was the point guard of 2 of our worst teams in gopher history also remember while Nolen got suspended for grades. Carr is a good citizen as well.
 

gophereric30

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It's unreal how beloved Mason and Nolen are and how much disdain we have for Carr after 8 games. Defensively Carr is easily already better than Mason and his offensive is signifciantly better than Nolen to make up for any gap there. Carr is a better defender than Amir or Pree was especially on ball screens. Mason was the point guard of 2 of our worst teams in gopher history also remember while Nolen got suspended for grades. Carr is a good citizen as well.
Haters are gonna be haters. People can't do anything right. Carr has been ripped on this forum for not distributing the ball, but yet has only 1 game in which he hasn't had at least 6 assists. My guess is he will get better and better as he's only played 8 games this year. Didn't play at all last year. Everyone wants to judge him after only 8 games. Can't please everyone as we beat clemson by 18 and all some people can say is well clemson is terrible! They were predicted to finish 14th in the ACC. I think some people just throw things out and hope it sticks! Probably haven't even watched more than 2 college basketball game in years!
 

BarnBurner

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It's unreal how beloved Mason and Nolen are and how much disdain we have for Carr after 8 games. Defensively Carr is easily already better than Mason and his offensive is signifciantly better than Nolen to make up for any gap there. Carr is a better defender than Amir or Pree was especially on ball screens. Mason was the point guard of 2 of our worst teams in gopher history also remember while Nolen got suspended for grades. Carr is a good citizen as well.
I really don't think it is disdain. I think it is/was a presumption of what Carr was/is going to be that has not been realized.

His last game had great results, namely a win. I see him being ineffective in his role thus far, other than last game.
 

manderson1984

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I really don't think it is disdain. I think it is/was a presumption of what Carr was/is going to be that has not been realized.

His last game had great results, namely a win. I see him being ineffective in his role thus far, other than last game.
Don't disagree that he hasn't played well, but his "bad" is better than a lot of the comps which is what is weird to me. Also we certainly built him up a little much maybe, but his freshman year stats unless they are a complete outlier (which we will only know after 3-4 years of playing has been completed truly) say that we get a better statistical player as the year goes on. So early to throw in the towel on the kid.
 

GopherBlood666

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The Pitino off-season (and last year in-season) comparisons to Carsen Edwards is probably why a lot are disappointed in Carr to this point. I was surprised by his inefficiencies early but appears to be getting more comfortable. I think the bar was just set to high to begin with. Fraschilla made some good points on Monday's broadcast about transfers getting hype, but kept saying now Carr has to prove it as there is no more hiding.
 

BarnBurner

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Don't disagree that he hasn't played well, but his "bad" is better than a lot of the comps which is what is weird to me. Also we certainly built him up a little much maybe, but his freshman year stats unless they are a complete outlier (which we will only know after 3-4 years of playing has been completed truly) say that we get a better statistical player as the year goes on. So early to throw in the towel on the kid.
Exactly. Just not what everyone was expecting.
 

Parcival

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I don't love Carr at PG- but he has Mason potential. His soph numbers are right where Nate's sophomore numbers were. It all depends what Carr does with his game from here both defensively and offensively. Nate shot 30% from 3 point range as a soph but he really improved in that area as a junior and senior. So far, Carr is a better rebounder, but it is early on that stat.
It's not all about numbers though. Sometimes you can tell by just the eye test if a player is going to be great or not. There are some things you can't teach such as basketball IQ.

If Carr is as good as Mason I'll come back to this post in a couple years and eat crow but from what I've seen it won't happen. Carr could still be a very nice player. Just not on NM2's level.
 

MennoSota

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Exactly. Just not what everyone was expecting.
I was happier when he made the two 3s while catching it in rhythm. All the 3 point attempts before that were shots where he thought about it, almost didn't take it and then tried to hit it. They were out of rhythm and a palm ball. In that situation he's just a poor shooter. In other words, he's not a point guard who can generate his own shot and step back to hit a 3 point shot. He needs to get the shot off from a pass.
 

sal

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The criticism of Carr reminds me of Terrance Simmons. A sit out transfer point guard who Clem touted as (not a quote but close) "the best player at practice everyday" Simmons got off to a very slow start and was the whipping boy for fans for a good long time. He did get better, but his career was during a tumultuous period of Gopher hoops. To say the least.
 
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manderson1984

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It's not all about numbers though. Sometimes you can tell by just the eye test if a player is going to be great or not. There are some things you can't teach such as basketball IQ.

If Carr is as good as Mason I'll come back to this post in a couple years and eat crow but from what I've seen it won't happen. Carr could still be a very nice player. Just not on NM2's level.
I'm hoping he's better. I remember Nate Mason being a killer in offensive flow and said our offense would be better without him and it was with Amir who "wasn't a PG" last yea. Many poster shots felt last year was going to be awful without Nate. Carr at least defends better as Nate was not a great or maybe even average defender.
 

manderson1984

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The criticism of Carr reminds me of Terrance Simmons. A site out transfer point guard who Clem touted as (not a quote but close) "the best player at practice everyday" Simmons got off to a very slow start and was the whipping boy for fans for a good long time. He did get better, but his career was during a tumultuous period of Gopher hoops. To say the least.
Very interesting correlation. Will be interesting to see if they continue to follow the sameness trajectory.
 

60's Guy

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Wild, reckless speculation...Lots of signs have pointed to Pitino being surprised Coffey entered the NBA draft. He expected him to return. Both knew Coffey was not going to be drafted.

Pitino said last year that Carr was our best player. There had to be some argument to support it or he wouldn’t be saying it. So, if Carr was outstanding in practice, if he played point while waiting to be declared eligible.
Did Coffey agree Carr was good, realize he’d be playing off ball much more often this season and decided to chase his NBA dream? And/or maybe be overshadowed by Carr if he came back?

We have not seen that Carr this season! But, he would have been way more likely to look good with Coffey, Murphy and Dupree sliding in an October lineup last year with Gabe, Curry and Oturu.

Curious why Coffey really did leave.
Curious if Carr really has “best player on the team” ability. Hype or did it exhibit itself for real last fall?
 

BarnBurner

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The criticism of Carr reminds me of Terrance Simmons. A sit out transfer point guard who Clem touted as (not a quote but close) "the best player at practice everyday" Simmons got off to a very slow start and was the whipping boy for fans for a good long time. He did get better, but his career was during a tumultuous period of Gopher hoops. To say the least.
Simmons had a really weird shot, iirc
 

mplarson7

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The thing I've come to realize after many years as a Gopher fan...

Some fans aren't happy unless they have something to complain about.
 

underground629

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Pitino said last year that Carr was our best player.
I find it very hard to believe that he said that. I know he likes to talk up transfers, but I think this board would've gone crazy over that supposed comment, which would be quite memorable. Besides being weird and nonsensical, that would've been incredibly rude to Murphy and Coffey.
 

MennoSota

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I find it very hard to believe that he said that. I know he likes to talk up transfers, but I think this board would've gone crazy over that supposed comment, which would be quite memorable. Besides being weird and nonsensical, that would've been incredibly rude to Murphy and Coffey.
Within the context, I think Pitino was using it to jab at the NCAA committee that didn't allow Carr an automatic transfer, but made him sit out.
 

Parcival

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The thing I've come to realize after many years as a Gopher fan...

Some fans aren't happy unless they have something to complain about.
And then there are those that complain about the complainers. Funny how things come full circle.
 

Parcival

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I'm hoping he's better. I remember Nate Mason being a killer in offensive flow and said our offense would be better without him and it was with Amir who "wasn't a PG" last yea. Many poster shots felt last year was going to be awful without Nate. Carr at least defends better as Nate was not a great or maybe even average defender.
Didn't Carr just get torched by that little 5'11" guard from Depaul? Pump the breaks a tad on Carr's defense. It's not like Mason was some scrub.
 

manderson1984

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Didn't Carr just get torched by that little 5'11" guard from Depaul? Pump the breaks a tad on Carr's defense. It's not like Mason was some scrub.
If you'd like to use one game as a deciding factor of a player being a poor defender go ahead. I'm using more games and not having a former Mr. Basketball of Illinois having a good game carrying all the weight. My point is Marcus Carr isn't as bad as he's being made out to be. I'm not saying Mason was a scrub. My other point was Mason was not a great and not one worthy of having his jersey in the rafters. Had a wonderful career here, but he wasn't a Bobby Jackson and I don't know if he'll honestly be better than Marcus Carr. As sophomores I take Marcus Carr 10 times out of 10.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher

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The Gophers did better at home against a shorthanded bad team than the Timberwolves did the night before.
 

jamiche

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Haters are gonna be haters. People can't do anything right. Carr has been ripped on this forum for not distributing the ball, but yet has only 1 game in which he hasn't had at least 6 assists. My guess is he will get better and better as he's only played 8 games this year. Didn't play at all last year. Everyone wants to judge him after only 8 games. Can't please everyone as we beat clemson by 18 and all some people can say is well clemson is terrible! They were predicted to finish 14th in the ACC. I think some people just throw things out and hope it sticks! Probably haven't even watched more than 2 college basketball game in years!
Carr's assist totals are skewed high because he has the ball in his hands so much of the time.
 

gophereric30

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Carr's assist totals are skewed high because he has the ball in his hands so much of the time.
Wait, so your telling me the point guard has the ball in his hands more than anyone? I would not have guessed that. Lol regardless, carr has 53 and nobody else has more than 16. He must be doing something right besides having the ball in his hands alot.
 

MennoSota

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If you'd like to use one game as a deciding factor of a player being a poor defender go ahead. I'm using more games and not having a former Mr. Basketball of Illinois having a good game carrying all the weight. My point is Marcus Carr isn't as bad as he's being made out to be. I'm not saying Mason was a scrub. My other point was Mason was not a great and not one worthy of having his jersey in the rafters. Had a wonderful career here, but he wasn't a Bobby Jackson and I don't know if he'll honestly be better than Marcus Carr. As sophomores I take Marcus Carr 10 times out of 10.
The problem is this (in hind sight):
Marcus Carr was unfortunately hyped up by his head coach to be a game changing point guard who could put the team on his back and score when necessary. It was a hype that I (we) bought in to. It turns out to presently be unfounded. Carr is not at that level as a basketball player. That is disappointing...and it is being voiced by myself and others.
Carr may mature into a very good point guard. He may become what Pitino claimed him to be. But, presently, Carr is not at that level. Had Pitino not set Carr on an unrealistic pedestal, I would not be so disappointed as I have been. I honestly thought Carr had a pure stroke from 3 point range. That is simply not true, at present. I hope that Carr evolves into that pure shooter. Convince me.
What we can all agree upon is that we want every Gopher athlete and team to do well. We support that. I believe it is appropriate to voice concerns and disappointment as well as joys. I expect I will do both over the course of this season.
 

BarnBurner

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The problem is this (in hind sight):
Marcus Carr was unfortunately hyped up by his head coach to be a game changing point guard who could put the team on his back and score when necessary. It was a hype that I (we) bought in to. It turns out to presently be unfounded. Carr is not at that level as a basketball player. That is disappointing...and it is being voiced by myself and others.
Carr may mature into a very good point guard. He may become what Pitino claimed him to be. But, presently, Carr is not at that level. Had Pitino not set Carr on an unrealistic pedestal, I would not be so disappointed as I have been. I honestly thought Carr had a pure stroke from 3 point range. That is simply not true, at present. I hope that Carr evolves into that pure shooter. Convince me.
What we can all agree upon is that we want every Gopher athlete and team to do well. We support that. I believe it is appropriate to voice concerns and disappointment as well as joys. I expect I will do both over the course of this season.
Link?
 

gophereric30

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The problem is this (in hind sight):
Marcus Carr was unfortunately hyped up by his head coach to be a game changing point guard who could put the team on his back and score when necessary. It was a hype that I (we) bought in to. It turns out to presently be unfounded. Carr is not at that level as a basketball player. That is disappointing...and it is being voiced by myself and others.
Carr may mature into a very good point guard. He may become what Pitino claimed him to be. But, presently, Carr is not at that level. Had Pitino not set Carr on an unrealistic pedestal, I would not be so disappointed as I have been. I honestly thought Carr had a pure stroke from 3 point range. That is simply not true, at present. I hope that Carr evolves into that pure shooter. Convince me.
What we can all agree upon is that we want every Gopher athlete and team to do well. We support that. I believe it is appropriate to voice concerns and disappointment as well as joys. I expect I will do both over the course of this season.
Agree with everything you are saying! Carr wasn't the one telling us how good he is. It was Pitino saying all this. It was Pitino putting Carr on this pedestal. Probably unfair to Carr. The person we should be upset with i guess is Pitino, but not Carr! Carr's the guy who wants to just play basketball and continue to get better.
 
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