Official 2021 Gophers Football Recruiting Updates Thread: Links, Tweets, Videos etc

salzie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
3,122
Reaction score
692
Points
113
Here's a factoid to chew on - people want to pretend that Claeys was the worst recruiter in the history of college football, but the one class he signed had a comprehensive 247 ranking of 46. Meanwhile, Fleck's 4 classes have an average comprehensive 247 ranking of 44.5 - and that will only get worse as the 2020 class continues to drop between now and when the classes are complete. If you take away the transitional 2017 class, it's still at 39.6.
The 2016 was a very good year for home talent that stayed home for Kill and the empire class, they decided to remain and sign with Claeys.

It's unlikely Claeys would've repeated that success
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
9,431
Reaction score
2,173
Points
113
Here's a factoid to chew on - people want to pretend that Claeys was the worst recruiter in the history of college football, but the one class he signed had a comprehensive 247 ranking of 46. Meanwhile, Fleck's 4 classes have an average comprehensive 247 ranking of 44.5 - and that will only get worse as the 2020 class continues to drop between now and when the classes are complete. If you take away the transitional 2017 class, it's still at 39.6.
As someone who always comes down on people for general or not totally factual statements I am really surprised to see you drop that Claeys line.

As has been pointed out, 2016 was an abnormally strong year in-state and was bolstered in large part by Coughlin's ranking and the work he did to encourage other in-state guys to stay home. In 2016 there were 8 players (9 if you count Seth Green) from Minnesota ranked .85 or better by 247. You would have to combine 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2018 just to come up with 8 Minnesota guys at .85 or higher in those years.

Obviously there is no way to prove it one way or another at this point, but it is not a stretch to think recruiting would not have been a strong point for Claeys.
 

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
12,456
Reaction score
1,808
Points
113
As someone who always comes down on people for general or not totally factual statements I am really surprised to see you drop that Claeys line.

As has been pointed out, 2016 was an abnormally strong year in-state and was bolstered in large part by Coughlin's ranking and the work he did to encourage other in-state guys to stay home. In 2016 there were 8 players (9 if you count Seth Green) from Minnesota ranked .85 or better by 247. You would have to combine 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2018 just to come up with 8 Minnesota guys at .85 or higher in those years.

Obviously there is no way to prove it one way or another at this point, but it is not a stretch to think recruiting would not have been a strong point for Claeys.
We all know that locking down the good instate guys is just a given. No kudos should be given there.

1579889059254.png
 

salzie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
3,122
Reaction score
692
Points
113
But with that said, back to 2021.

It'll be interesting to get some momentum going
 

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
12,456
Reaction score
1,808
Points
113
Credit is deserved, but it's fair to question sustainability when people suggest that would've been norm under Claeys.

I have little doubt PJ > Claeys at recruiting.
We only have one data point, it's impossible to suggest sustainability or lack thereof. In fact, you can make a stronger argument for suggesting sustainability because he actually was kind of part of it once. Landing the Empire Class was an accomplishment. It's a difficult accomplishment for a great recruiter (Fleck) coming off of an historic season.

But yes, it's fair to question anything. But the premise that "that MN class was just really good" is a terrible take. I don't know how a Gopher fan in 2020 - considering recruiting in basketball and football - can have that take. It flies in the face of any reason.

That said, I agree with you, Fleck is a better recruiter than what I would GUESS Claeys would have been. But not everything needs to be a comparison between the two people. We really need to move past that.
 

Possumlad

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
32
Reaction score
14
Points
8
Fleck is a pretty unique brand - you likely have to buy in to his personality, Row the Boat culture, etc. to want to come to MN. You either love it or hate it; tough guy to be lukewarm about.

I'm sure we lose some recruits because of that, BUT we also get big-time buy-in from the guys who do come. As a self-selecting group who enjoy Fleck & his brand, I'm sure his players are very passionate & loyal.
 

MaxyJR1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
7,779
Reaction score
540
Points
113
We only have one data point, it's impossible to suggest sustainability or lack thereof. In fact, you can make a stronger argument for suggesting sustainability because he actually was kind of part of it once. Landing the Empire Class was an accomplishment. It's a difficult accomplishment for a great recruiter (Fleck) coming off of an historic season.

But yes, it's fair to question anything. But the premise that "that MN class was just really good" is a terrible take. I don't know how a Gopher fan in 2020 - considering recruiting in basketball and football - can have that take. It flies in the face of any reason.

That said, I agree with you, Fleck is a better recruiter than what I would GUESS Claeys would have been. But not everything needs to be a comparison between the two people. We really need to move past that.
Not really. Green's dad played at the U and Coughlin's grandpa was AD as one time. Winfield grew up with Coughlin and was the lowest rated of all the kids with MN ties. It was huge to get that class to stay home. That class was also built off the Citrus bowl run. Let's see what our 2021 class becomes. Projections of at least 4, 4* players already.
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
9,431
Reaction score
2,173
Points
113
But with that said, back to 2021.

It'll be interesting to get some momentum going
Agree, my bad for getting sucked back into the old crap again. Excited to see what 2021 holds on the recruiting front. We already seem to be in good with a number of 4* players which has to be a good sign. Will be fun to see how it all shakes out over the next few months.
 

btowngopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
4,066
Reaction score
548
Points
113
We only have one data point, it's impossible to suggest sustainability or lack thereof. In fact, you can make a stronger argument for suggesting sustainability because he actually was kind of part of it once. Landing the Empire Class was an accomplishment. It's a difficult accomplishment for a great recruiter (Fleck) coming off of an historic season.

But yes, it's fair to question anything. But the premise that "that MN class was just really good" is a terrible take. I don't know how a Gopher fan in 2020 - considering recruiting in basketball and football - can have that take. It flies in the face of any reason.

That said, I agree with you, Fleck is a better recruiter than what I would GUESS Claeys would have been. But not everything needs to be a comparison between the two people. We really need to move past that.
Its not a terrible take when you consider neither Claeys nor Kill ever landed a four star from out of state. So we do have a data point of terrible out of state recruiting from Claeys, it’s perfectly reasonable to imagine Claeys not landing the best instate guys every year. Which he would pretty much need to do to keep at a decent level if the out of state recruiting didn’t improve.
 

hungan1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
10,429
Reaction score
1,081
Points
113
So, we have on the one hand someone who wants a TG kid to play QB for the Gophers. On the other hand, we have top MN recruits who don't want to be Gophers.

It goes both ways. The Gophers aren't going to beg or force kids who want to go elsewhere. They are not going to bend over backwards and lower their selection criteria for any kid including a home state kid. Their mission is to find the best players that fit their system.

If the Gophers never recruit the TG kid, there is a legitimate reason. If the Gophers think he is someone who is graded higher than other recruits and fits their system, he will get a call. I wish this kid nothing but the best.

IMHO, let him figure out where he wants to go.
 
Last edited:

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
12,456
Reaction score
1,808
Points
113
Not really. Green's dad played at the U and Coughlin's grandpa was AD as one time. Winfield grew up with Coughlin and was the lowest rated of all the kids with MN ties. It was huge to get that class to stay home. That class was also built off the Citrus bowl run. Let's see what our 2021 class becomes. Projections of at least 4, 4* players already.
Yes, really. It's an atrocious take. We see similar kids, year after year, who have ties to the state in basketball and football go to other schools.

That class was the exception. It was not the norm.
 

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
12,456
Reaction score
1,808
Points
113
Its not a terrible take when you consider neither Claeys nor Kill ever landed a four star from out of state. So we do have a data point of terrible out of state recruiting from Claeys, it’s perfectly reasonable to imagine Claeys not landing the best instate guys every year. Which he would pretty much need to do to keep at a decent level if the out of state recruiting didn’t improve.
Yes, it is a terrible take. He accomplished something we have a hard time accomplishing. It's something we failed to accomplish with a better recruiter, coach, and program in 2020.

That Empire Class was an exceptional recruiting coupe for Kill/Claeys, trying to walk that down because you're stuck in some sort of endless Fleck vs. Claeys mental loop is insane.

Do I think he would have sustained it? Probably not.

Does that mean that recruiting job was any less impressive? Nope and attempts to talk it down are an atrocious take, IMO.
 

btowngopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
4,066
Reaction score
548
Points
113
Yes, it is a terrible take. He accomplished something we have a hard time accomplishing. It's something we failed to accomplish with a better recruiter, coach, and program in 2020.

That Empire Class was an exceptional recruiting coupe for Kill/Claeys, trying to walk that down because you're stuck in some sort of endless Fleck vs. Claeys mental loop is insane.

Do I think he would have sustained it? Probably not.

Does that mean that recruiting job was any less impressive? Nope and attempts to talk it down are an atrocious take, IMO.
Claeys got Coughlin, but he missed on Kasl, Spielman, and Hooker who were rated 2-4 and all were good B1G players. That’s how crazy lucky he was with the instate class that year. We actually got pretty much everyone we wanted instate for the following two years, there just were way fewer players we wanted.
 

hungan1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
10,429
Reaction score
1,081
Points
113
Claeys was never an aggressive recruiter as the formal head coach.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
8,544
Reaction score
1,941
Points
113
Did the name of the Official 2016 Gophers Football Recruiting Updates thread get renamed?
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
9,431
Reaction score
2,173
Points
113
Did the name of the Official 2016 Gophers Football Recruiting Updates thread get renamed?
An attempt was made earlier in this page to bring it back to 2021 recruiting discussion but it failed as the thread is back in one of the Kill/Claeys vs. Fleck arguments again. Certainly have not had enough of those on this board.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
21,716
Reaction score
4,788
Points
113
I hate that I'm even dipping my toe into this worthless, unprovable mud-slinging fest ...... but isn't it true that Coughlin himself actually did a strong bit of recruiting of the other MN kids we landed that year?? Like I thought I remember him having group texts with guys, taking guys up to his cabin, etc. Pretty extraordinary.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
21,716
Reaction score
4,788
Points
113
1. He said "a lot" had offers where "the rest were the FCS Dakotas, Northern Iowa, etc.." Aside from Johannesson, every player you listed had at least one FBS offer in addition to Minnesota. MAC doesn't apply to his statement - those are FBS schools.
*Huge* difference in the point he was making, because he said FCS instead of FCS/G5. Huge. No one would've been able to figure it out, if you hadn't jumped in! :rolleyes:

2. Rutgers has never not been in the Power 5/Power 6
This point can be argued and is not objective.

The 2013 season in the American Athletic Conference was very much a "lame duck", as it had already been announced that the BCS was ending and a new playoff system was coming in which the AAC would not be in the power structure.

The last true season in which the Big East was in the power structure was 2012, but by then the only true P5 teams still stuck there were Pitt and Syracuse, both of which escaped to the ACC after that season.

If the Big Ten had not expanded in 2014, it is very possible that Rutgers and Louisville could still be in the AAC to this day. Louisville to the Big XII would be a maybe. But Rutgers wouldn't be any different or better off than UConn.


So for all intents and purposes, it is not wrong to consider Louisville and Rutgers to be G5 in 2013, in my book. You won't change my mind, either. So it's better if you don't reply.
 
Last edited:

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
21,716
Reaction score
4,788
Points
113
Shot in the dark here... Is this Tommy Olson?
Can we all agree on one thing, at least?



Look at this man's "neck". It goes *straight down* from his ears to his shoulders. There's not even 1 degree of bend in. Straight down. It's a completely continuous unit of mass, above the shoulders.
 

noamfromm

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
806
Reaction score
375
Points
63
Can we all agree on one thing, at least?



Look at this man's "neck". It goes *straight down* from his ears to his shoulders. There's not even 1 degree of bend in. Straight down. It's a completely continuous unit of mass, above the shoulders.
Both of the Olson's have necks now
 

Hopeful Pessimist

Active member
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
136
Reaction score
45
Points
28
I'd appreciate it if the people who care about the issue would start a Kill/Claeys vs. Fleck thread. I'm focused on the future.
 
Top Bottom